Please help me understand maps!

[+SurveyContactTeam]

So I'm trying to research the different Garmin GPS devices to decide which one I'd like to upgrade to (from my current iPhone), but despite combing through the forums and various other sites, I'm somewhat overwhelmed. What I'm stuck on at the moment is this whole Map thing. Hoping you guys can straighten me out gently, because I'm feeling like I must be dense or something.

 

I understand the basemaps are the basic, mostly inadequate thing that comes preloaded on most devices. I also understand that I can expect to need to buy maps to install. But what sort of maps will I need? How many can I expect to have to buy?

 

Topographical maps come pre-installed on some units. Are these what I can expect to use most for geocaching, or are they only occasionally useful? Is the City Navigator map the most similar to the sort of map I see on my iPhone/Geocaching app, and what I'll probably end up using most? Or will I need something else? (For that matter, what's the type of map that came preloaded with my Nuvi 265? A City Navigator?) How many maps do most of you own or use regularly for geocaching?

 

Sorry for the flurry of crazy questions. ;-)

[+khumbu_calypso]

How many maps you want depends on what you plan to get out of your GPSr. It is pretty safe to say though that Basemap will be totally useless to you.

 

The City Navigator pack basically gives your mapping handheld the same set of maps and POI's that the Garmin Nuvi's come with. No spoken directions with most handhelds (see the uber expensive Montana with add-on speech accessory), but turn-by-turn directions on screen.

 

The topo maps that come pre-loaded are pretty good. Just realize that they are 100k. So not as accurate or detailed as 50k or 25k.

 

If you plan on hiking/backpacking at all and want accurate elevation data for trails not yet travelled, you will want a Garmin Topo map pack added for sure. The built-in 100k maps come with decent DEM data for this, but any third party free ones do not and the basemap DEM is very poor. (DEM stands for Digital Elevation Model)

 

If you just want good topo maps and are not worried about DEM data, there are lots of free ones out there that are as good or better than the Garmin 25k and 50k maps so don't pay extra for the built in 100k maps if all you want is topo maps.

 

Don't know if I have answered all of your questions. I went through all of this recently myself so I know where you are coming from. Its a lot of information to absorb. Again, it all depends on what you plan on doing and what you expect to get from your handheld. Maybe put together a little list of your intended uses.

[+DanOCan]

Tons of questions. I don' think I can cover them all, but...

 

The maps you want will depend heavily on the way you expect to use your GPSr and the type of caching you do. In general, if you are spending a lot of time in the city you'll want something like City Navigator which contains the data needed for doing turn-by-turn directions. If you are spending time hiking or more wilderness caching, topo maps become quite valuable.

 

Since you say you have a Nuvi 265, my suggestion would be:

 

- Use it for navigating to the general cache area / parking coordinates and don't spend money on the City

Navigator maps for the handheld.

 

- Use one of the many online sources to obtain free topo maps for your handheld and use it for caching. Don't spend the money buying a unit with topo maps pre-loaded since the free ones tend to be just as good.

 

That is how I do it, anyway. There is nothing that keeps you from loading more than one map set into your handheld and switching between them. For example, my handheld contains both the Garmin Topo Canada maps, the free Ibycus Topo Maps, and an old version of City Navigator. I never use City Nav. on the handheld, it's just there because I never reload my maps to remove it.

[+dfx]

One note on topo maps: The only thing they all have in common is that they'll show you topographic features, i.e. elevation contour lines, rivers and creeks, bodies of water and all that. Everything beyond that is optional features, which a particular map may or may not have.

 

Although it's not very common, some topo maps are just topo features and nothing else, no streets or anything. Some of them are created transparent and so can be used (at least on the higher-end devices) in combination with another map giving you street data, such as City Navigator or a free map based on OSM data.

 

Other topo maps do include street data, but not routable data. The preloaded topo maps on Garmin "t" models are an example of that. You get non-routable street data, some trails, topo data in 1:100k detail. Free topo maps with OSM-based street data are also usually not routable, but usually give you much higher topo detail.

 

Yet other topo maps include routable street data, for example the regional Garmin topo maps that you can buy seperately (which also give you higher detail than the preloaded maps, usually 1:25k or 1:24k, sometimes 1:50k). Those are very good maps that pretty much give you everything (except that the street data doesn't get updated as often as the CN maps), but the downside is that you have to purchase them seperately.

 

On the higher-end Garmin models, you can multiple maps loaded simultaneously and enabled/disable them at will. A common configuration is to have a free, non-routable topo map loaded for geocaching purposes, and another free, routable but non-topo map for car navigation purposes. That way you can do everything, just have to switch to the appropriate profile.

Edited June 3, 2011 by dfx

[+SurveyContactTeam]

Thanks for the responses. Trying to process it all... c'mon, brain, you can do it!

 

It took me a little while to figure out that 100k maps isn't actually referring to file size...

 

At the moment I'm mostly doing my caching around the city and nearby parks/trails, but I have hopes of getting out to some larger parks and trails, if I can convince the rest of the family that this would be a good way to spend a vacation/weekend. I know we also plan to go to Spain next year, so I imagine that will require another map purchase.

 

So it sounds like I'll want a Topo map, but to get the useful details I'm better off not paying for a preloaded one (the "t" models, correct?), but instead purchasing a unit without it and then buy a better quality Topo map. And if I'm reading this right, a "better" one will come with streets shown-- I may not be able to use it to navigate while driving (this is what "routable" means?), but I can use it for reference while geocaching. Yes?

Edited June 3, 2011 by SurveyContactTeam

[+CacheFreakTim]

There are three types of maps I use....

 

1. City Navigator - Routes me while in the car to the cache with turn by turn directions. Most Nuvi units come with these, while most handhelds do not.

 

2. Topographical Maps - I find topographical maps to be invaluable when Geocaching. Since I started using them I would never buy a GPS that does not have the capability. Topographical maps come on some GPS units, but not all. For Delorme you need to buy they $30/year map package while Garmin sells them separately and they do come on some of their GPS units. You can find out which by looking for the letter 't' in the product name (ex. Oregon 450t.) Also as a side note you do not really need to pay for topo maps as there is a site that you can get them for free. Check out gpsfiledepot.com for the free maps. Many of us here on the boards use them and they are amazing.

 

3. Satellite Maps - You can get this on the GPS units themselves, but you will need to pay a fee around $30/yr for both Delorme and Garmin. I mostly use these maps on my iPhone with the official Groundspeak app. because it loads them though Google Maps and they are free. I find these to be useful in certain situations. Obviously if you are in the middle of the woods they are no help, but if you are in a urban area, or a lightly covered area they can really show you exactly where the cache is. For example the other day my GPS took me to an area with about 10 different pine trees. I looked at the satellite map and could tell that it was the 4th tree in, so in certain situations like this they can be a big help.

[+DanOCan]

So it sounds like I'll want a Topo map, but to get the useful details I'm better off not paying for a preloaded one (the "t" models, correct?), but instead purchasing a unit without it and then buy a better quality Topo map. And if I'm reading this right, a "better" one will come with streets shown-- I may not be able to use it to navigate while driving (this is what "routable" means?), but I can use it for reference while geocaching. Yes?

 

You're right on. Although, again, I encourage you to look at the free topo maps that are available before plunking down cash on purchasing a set. See if they meet your needs first and only go to purchased maps if there is some specific feature that they are missing.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

MONKEYWRENCH...

 

Just to throw up another option (and add to the confusion), Delorme units come with a full disc set of Topo 9. So... there is no purchasing anything, although they do provide a subscription service, also.

 

Their PN-40 and PH-60 units (probably the PN-30, also), is switchable road nav to hiking. It just doesn't provide you with voice commands, i.e. "turn right", "turn left", etc. It does display turns and road names on-screen, just not in voice commands.

 

Garmin is good, but it ain't the only.

[+dfx]

So it sounds like I'll want a Topo map, but to get the useful details I'm better off not paying for a preloaded one (the "t" models, correct?), but instead purchasing a unit without it and then buy a better quality Topo map. And if I'm reading this right, a "better" one will come with streets shown-- I may not be able to use it to navigate while driving (this is what "routable" means?), but I can use it for reference while geocaching. Yes?

 

You're right on. Although, again, I encourage you to look at the free topo maps that are available before plunking down cash on purchasing a set. See if they meet your needs first and only go to purchased maps if there is some specific feature that they are missing.

 

Note that if you do buy a regional Garmin topo map, the map will be routable (unless you go for a 1:100k version, but you don't want that).

[+coggins]

Thanks for the responses. Trying to process it all... c'mon, brain, you can do it!

 

It took me a little while to figure out that 100k maps isn't actually referring to file size...

 

At the moment I'm mostly doing my caching around the city and nearby parks/trails, but I have hopes of getting out to some larger parks and trails, if I can convince the rest of the family that this would be a good way to spend a vacation/weekend. I know we also plan to go to Spain next year, so I imagine that will require another map purchase.

 

So it sounds like I'll want a Topo map, but to get the useful details I'm better off not paying for a preloaded one (the "t" models, correct?), but instead purchasing a unit without it and then buy a better quality Topo map. And if I'm reading this right, a "better" one will come with streets shown-- I may not be able to use it to navigate while driving (this is what "routable" means?), but I can use it for reference while geocaching. Yes?

The Garmin US TOPO 24k series maps are great and do road routing. Garmin also has high resolution maps for Spain than you could get on a preprogrammed micoSD card that can be later sold after your trip

[+SurveyContactTeam]

Now that I have a better understanding of maps (thanks everyone! ) I went looking at what Garmin has to offer for Topo maps... good heavens. Given that I regularly travel between Ontario, New Jersey, and Virginia, that's already three separate maps! How do folks who geocache in lots of different states afford all the maps??

[+dfx]

How do folks who geocache in lots of different states afford all the maps??

 

They get free ones

For Canada, you want the "Ibycus" maps, which are based on the same data as the Garmin topo maps. For the US (and many other areas), there's plenty of free options on http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/

As last resort, non-topo OSM-based maps are available worldwide. Well, theoretically anyway, depends on the OSM coverage.

Then, you can layer some more maps on top of all that, such as the "Ontario trails project" map.

Edited June 4, 2011 by dfx

[+mpilchfamily]

They get the free maps from sites like GPSFileDepot.com

http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/

 

If your worried about the number of maps then get a unit which uses micro SD cards. They you can add storage to hold the maps. The nicer units have profiles. So you can set up different profiles depending on what you will be doing and where your going.

[+khumbu_calypso]

Free maps are great. Just realize that the one limitation that I found with them is that they do not (at least for Garmin units) contain any DEM data so you will be relying on the basemap DEM which is very innacurate. Garmin keeps its DEM close to the chest so nobody has been able to figure out how to get the free DEM data that is out there into a format that can be loaded onto the Garmins. Don't know if other brands are more open in this respect.

 

This might not mean a lot to you but it could become meaningful once you get going with this digital mapping/GPS hobby. Depends on what you expect out of your GPSr. I have a couple of younger kids and a wife that I have to consider when selecting our hikes/geocache adventures. If I pick a cache that requires a 700m elevation gain over 4km, it will most likely be the last time my family goes geocaching. So being able to get an accurate track/route elevation profile is high enough on my list of priorities that I purchased Topo Canada for that reason alone. With Ibycus Topo (free) I had no DEM. The Garmin Basemap DEM is often off by 200-300m. So that trail that looks like a leisurely stroll according to Garmin Basemap DEM could end up be quite a climb.

 

Also keep in mind that the Garmin on-line prices are generally quite a bit higher than what you will find at local GPSr dealers. GPS City in Calgary sells TOPO Canada for $79 on DVD. Garmin website lists is at $150. Several more mainstream outdoor retailers that sell Garmin products also sell these for Garmin list prices. I highly recommend getting to know the staff at your local GPSr shop.