khumbu_calypso

The learning curve is steep for pretty much all Garmin units, but if you are looking at getting into GPS orienteering, mapping, geocaching, etc., I am pretty sure that there is a rather steep learning curve in general, regardless of what brand/model of GPSr you choose. I will definitely agree that the Garmin documentation provided with the units is quite basic, and to learn how to do many things, you have to rely on these kinds of forums. I haven't had a lot of experience with other brands/models, but have definitely fiddled with most brands and a few models from each brand and find the Garmins to be overall the best from an all-around perspective. If you are looking for Apple/iPhone like simplicity, you might be better off to try using an iPhone for geocaching. Like someone else has mentioned, when you search for and find a data point (waypoint, geocache, POI, etc.) the only option displayed, front and center, may be "GO", but if you hit the menu button you will be presented with a bunch of other options. To me, that is about as Apple/iPhone-like as it gets. Present the one most obvious option as a large button at the bottom of the screen, with other available commands hidden. Once you figure out most of these things with the Garmin, it becomes much more intuitive, but like any gadget, there is a learning/adaptation process involved. I have found the 62s to be an incredibly powerful and adaptable tool, and while it wasn't always self-explanatory or intuitive in its approach to many things, once I learned how to use it, there is virtually nothing that I have wanted to use it for that it does not handle quite well. Considering how much technology and capability is packed into such a robust, compact unit, it is really hard to match the 62s.

I guess it depends on what free maps you have had and what you are looking to get from the Garmin Topo package. I am in Canada and while Ibycus Topo (free) did most of what I was looking for in a topo map, it did not include DEM and so I shelled out for the Topo Canada package from Garmin, about $80, if I remember correctly. You can usually find better pricing at local GPS stores than from Garmin's website.

The paint will definitely wear off the buttons on the 62s quite quickly with heavy use. I got over it pretty quick though. My 62s looks like it has been to war and back, but that doesn't change the useability of the device at all. First thing I did when I got it out of the box however, was to put a Zag Invisishield protector on the screen. Highly recommend doing that as a scratched up screen will definitely hinder the user experience. In hindsight though, I wish I had gone with the higher resolution touch screen Oregon 450. Entering text is such a PITA on the 62s. They say that sun light readability is not as good on the Oregon, but I am willing to take my chances next time around with that aspect just to get the easy of text entering that comes with the Oregon. Especially because I use my 62s as an all-purpose device, loaded with City Navigator for car navigation as well. I am just waiting to see what is next from Garmin. I think the Montana is too big and the Oregon is due for an update soon.

The paint is wearing off the "Menu" button on my 62s that I have had for less than 2 months. Its my second 62s. First one had a bit of a software meltdown after 6 weeks. Basemap got corrupted somehow and the <Page><Enter><Power> reset wouldn't work. Had to send it back. The case squeaks as does every 62s I have every picked up. The alarm clock doesn't work. Wakes the unit up and powers on, but no chirping noise. When the alitmeter Pressure Trending is set to "Save Always" the unit powers on all by itself every 15 mins and doesn't shut off, killing the batteries. These are just the current issues with my 62s. I have about had enough to be honest. Looks like another RMA is in my near future (download all my BirdsEye all over again - Yay!) Think I might try the Oregon 450 this time around and deal with the screen readability in the sun. Haven't heard of any squeaky case issues and there are no buttons for paint to wear off of on the Oregon... Anyone want to try to talk me out of it? Will I really hate the touch screen interface? I know I am definitely going to like it when it comes to text entry. Is screen readability reallyl that bad in sunlight?

I tested the barometer setting and if it is set to "Save Always" the unit turns itself on every 15 mins or so. If I turn that off the problem goes away. That's disappointing as I feel that is a pretty useful feature when it comes to weather trending and forecasting. Has anyone else noticed this same issue with their 62s? I am always skeptical of BETA software so I'd rather wait until the next official release. Can anyone confirm if the latest BETA fixes this? @yogazoo, by "original set of files", what files do you mean specifically? I don't want to lose all of my profile settings again. I already did that once when I did the reset, trying to fix the issue with the unit turning itself on. Even though I copied the "Profiles" folder to my computer before the reset and restored it after, there were still a lot of settings that had to be re-configured to get it back to where it was. As far as getting a new unit, this is my second 62s in approx. 4 months. The first one had a problem with basemap getting somehow corrupted and there was no way to restore it (I hadn't backed up the system to my computer as this was all new to me at the time) and the unit would not reset using the "Page-enter-power" method. So my retailer replaced it for me with a new one. That was painful as I had about 50 high resolution BirdsEye images that all had to be deleted and re-downloaded. I don't want to go through that again, but at the same time I want a unit that does what it is supposed to do. I am wondering if the new 62sc addresses some of the other issues I have with the 62s like the squeaky case and the paint coming off the buttons (its only 2 months old!!) From the images released so far the buttons all look to be more flush with the case which makes me question if they are harder to press, but does that solve the issue with the premature paint wear? If they are making physical changes to things like button paint, did they also make improvements to the case to stop the squeaking? If they have done all of that I might be persuaded to try to get an upgrade for my troubles. Good luck with that right?....

The alarm clock on my 62s isn't working. Does anyone use the alarm clock on theirs regularly? It seems like a pathetic tack-on feature, but one I would like to use if I could rely on it. One of my main goals in going into the backcountry is to get great photos which typically means waking up at ungodly hours and I would like to be able to not carry a separate alarm clock (the one on my watch has never worked). If I set the alarm and turn it on (the unit prompts and then turns itself off), it will wake up at the specified time, but no tone sounds at all. I was also having issues a few weeks ago with the unit turning itself on at random times. I called Garmin tech support and they were quite intrigued by it but suggested a reset (page - enter - power. I did that and haven't had issues since. I have a feeling though that these two issues are related. I am running 3.0.

@myotis. The Southern Alberta Trails Map guy said the same thing you did. He figured I had installed the preview map. I don't think I did. It was some time ago that I installed the map, and at the time I was using Ibycus so I had no issue. It wasn't until I installed Garmin Topo Canada a few weeks ago that I started noticing a problem. I remember when I installed it using Mapsource, that there was just the one "Southern Alberta Trails" map listed on the mapsource sidebar. I don't remember any "Mapsource only" or "preview" map listed. At any rate, I deleted the .img file from my 62s and downloaded the latest version of the trail maps and installed them and the problem seems to be solved. Go figure. Thanks for the suggestions.

I used MapSource to install the map. Followed the same procedure as other maps. Selected the area I wanted (there's only one option with this map - all or nothing) and installed it. Then I renamed it SouthernAlbertaTrails.img and went on my merry way. I will try the solution you have suggested in the next couple of days and let you know what I find out.

@myotis. I don't know why I mentioned relief shading as you are right, I'm sure that is not relevant. By POI's I mean rivers, lakes, streams, campgrounds, picnic areas, roads. All features of the Garmin Topo Canada map. When I enable the Southern Alberta Trails map these all remain visble. The only thing I lose is the contour lines. So when I enable the trails, I am clearly still seeing the Garmin Topo Canada map, just without the contour lines. @snowfleurys. I am working in the recreational profile. If it was a setting somewhere that I inadvertently changed, I would think it would affect contour lines on both the Garmin and the Ibycus Topo maps. Why it only affects the Garmin Topo Canada maps is the strange thing. I think I am going to contact the Southern Alberta Trails Map people to see if they know of this issue.

What I have done is disable all maps. I get a pretty much blank map screen at that point. (I don't even see the basemap for some reason which surprises me, or does Garmin's Topo Canada overwrite that?) Then I enable just Garmin Topo Canada. Map looks great. Contour lines, POIs, mountain peaks, etc. All there. Then I enable Southern Alberta Trail Maps, which is supposed to be a transparent layer. When I go back to the map the contour lines are gone. Relief shading is still there. POIs are all still there. Just the contour lines are gone. If I do all of the above steps again, but instead of enabling Garmin Topo Canada, I use Ibycus Topo, I get all of the contour lines even after turning on Southern Alberta Trail Maps.

Can someone explain how map draw order works and is there a way to change this parameter for various maps I have installed on my 62s or am I stuck with whatever setting the map maker chose? I have Ibycus Topo, Garmin Topo Canada, and Southern Alberta Trails (among others) installed. When I have Ibycus and Southern Alberta Trails active, I can see the topo contour lines. If I have Garmin Topo Canada and Southern Alberta Trails active at the same time, the topo contour lines are not visible. If I activate all three, I can once again see the contour lines, which I would assume are those of the Ibycus maps. If I have just Garmin Topo Canada active I can see the contour lines no problem, but as soon as I turn on Southern Alberta Trails the contour lines are gone. I thought that Southern Alberta Trails maps were just a transparent overlay, but seems that they are causing the problem here. Maybe draw order has nothing to do with this and I have some other issue here.

I stand corrected. The SOS function still works without a smartphone. There is no "Check-in/I'm OK" button on the SPOT Connect. For that feature you need to have a working smartphone. Can anyone verify if the "Check-in/I'm OK" function still works without any extra subscription? On the SPOT 2 device, it is just the one subscription that allows for SOS, Check-in, custom message, and tracking features. With SPOT Connect, the custom text message capability is only unlocked with an additional subscription, above and beyond the basic $99/yr service. Does that mean there is no "Check-in/I'm OK" functionality with the SPOT Connect if you just have the basic subscription or is this feature still there, just no dedicated button? I just don't understand why they have created two different products. Why the SPOT Connect isn't exactly the same device as the SPOT 2 Communicator with the added capability of bluetooth connection to a smartphone for sending text messages with an added subscription is a mystery to me. For me I am sticking with the SPOT 2 until they get it figured out.

I am looking at purchasing a few inexpensive GPSr's for my group of Boy Scouts. The original eTrex seems to be fairly easy to come by in the $20-30 range. I have seen the odd Legend or Legend H for around $50, but they seem to go quickly. I need to get 3 or 4 of them and want them to all be identical so that I don't have to give different instruction for the different units. Also having one data cable configuration will be easier than having some that are USB and others that are serial. I have a serial port on my PC and have been able to successfully connect a couple of Rino's that I used to have and update firmware, so I am not too worried about interface issues. The other option is to purchase a few brand new eTrex H units. I can find those for about $80 locally. All I want any of these to do is aquire a signal, lock onto satellites and give a somewhat accurate position. I really want the boys to learn map and compass orienteering with GPS as one tool, but don't want them to learn to rely soley on a GPSr. So mapping capability and other advanced features (memory, track points, waypoints, POI's, etc.) are things that I not only do not need, but things that I don't want at all. I know that any of these units pretty much fit the bill and will do what I am looking for. My question would be however, among the original eTrex and the eTrex H or Legend H, how is performance in terms of time to get a satellite fix, reliability in keeping the satellite fix, getting a fix under tree cover, etc.? Bascially is a high sensitivity receiver with WAAS capability something I should pursue for my purposes or will the original be just fine? My only experience with GPSr's is my 62s. I just got started with all of this GPS fun. Thanks.

The built-in basemap is pretty much useless. It shows very crudely drawn roads that typically are not even close to the actual alignment of the road. For example, my GPSMap 62s shows my house 1.2 km north of a major highway that I actually live 800 m south of. Thats off by 2 km! The basemap does provide relief shading for any other maps you install by virtue of the DEM (Digital Elevation Model) data that is included with it. DEM is also what tells the GPSr how to provide elevations for routes or tracks that you haven't yet travelled. For example, if there is a trail that you have in mind, a hike you think you might want to go on, and you view the trail with your GPSr, there is an option to view the elevation profile for that track. The information it uses to build this elevation profile comes from the DEM data. The DEM data that is built-in to the basemap is very poor however. It often provides information that is off by 80-150 m. Using the basemap DEM I have viewed elevation profiles on my 62s that showed a trail that only had 200 m of elevation gain over 7 km to find out that it was actually closer to 400 m. That kind of inaccuracy can lead to problems. To get better DEM, you will need to purchase Garmin Topo maps. The free topo maps that are available all over the internet, do not include DEM as nobody has figured out how (or that don't have the technology and resourses necessary) to build DEM for Garmins. You can only get it from Garmin. For Canada it comes in the form of 50k topo maps from Garmin. For the US there are a few other options (24k, 50k and 100k). I believe that the DEM gets more accurate the larger you go in scale (ie. 24k DEM is better than 100k). At any rate, any of the topo map that you purchase separately from Garmin are better than the basemap. I am not familiar with the Scottish Munros or the Ordnance Survey Landranger maps, but I can almost guarantee that for anything close to paper maps of any kind that you are using, the basemap will be grossly inadequate in comparison. You will definitely want to look at other maps to add on to your 62s after the fact. There are many free ones that are as good or better than the ones you purchase from Garmin, but keep in mind that if DEM is important to you, there is only one way to get it.

The Legend Hcx does not have an electronic compass. I am pretty sure that all GPS receivers will have a "compass" function, but that does not mean they have an electronic compass. The difference is that when you have an electronic compass, you can be standing still and it will tell you which way is North (among other things). The compass "function" of any other GPSr that does not have an electronic compassm such as the Legend Hcx, will only work if you are moving. It does this by analysing your changing position to determine your direction of travel in relation to North (or other compass points for that matter).

I hunted down a few more benchmarks yesterday and at all three the elevation number reported by my 62s was never more than 2m off from the Canadian Government published elevation. Two of the three were only 1m off but I could easily say that was due to rounding and the exact position of my 62s which due to obstructions around the benchmark disk could not be placed exactly in the same vertical plane as the disk. Still I haven't fully pieced together in my mind how the 62s arrives at that elevation number. I really wish the owner's manual was a bit more explicit. Is there a good tutorial on this somewhere? Is it using satellites to calculate the elevation, the barometer, or a combinbation of both? Is the barometer reading corrected for altitude based on satellite measured altitude? So if I see a rise in pressure that is strictly due to changing weather and not a drop in altitude? Noob questions I know.

Other observations... When I am driving, if I roll down the window, the negative air pressure created makes the altimeter jump by as much as 30 m. When I turn on the AC in my truck, the increased pressure makes the altimeter drop by up to 10 m. Even when parked stationary in my truck with the AC off, rolling down the window makes the altimeter jump a meter or two. With regards to the question about the effect of building HVAC systems, in my line of work I routinely commission building envelope assessments to determine how tightly constructed the homes my company builds are. I don't recall the exact numbers that the engineers quote (its all a lot of "blah, blah, blah"), but it seems to me that HVAC systems that are not properly balanced can produce positive pressures inside tightly constructed homes in the 25-35 kilopascal range. Or at least that number rings a bell when I recall the last time I had one of those conversations.

I am still pretty new to all of this GPS fun, but lately I have been trying to understand how these barometric altimeters work, how atmospheric pressure is measured and how it relates to altitude. How elevation is measured and reported on maps and GPSr's. Geoids, spheroids, ellipsoids, blah, blah, blah. In the end I just want to have some measure of confidence that the number on the screen of my 62s is at least close to accurate, and if nothing else, that the numbers it spits out are at least consistently inaccurate so that I can at least trust the elevation change data it gives me, or that the barometric pressure trending is trustworthy. So I have been following this thread and experimenting with my 62s quite a bit over the past few days. I have been quite surprised in fact at how accurate it seems to be after reading here that the general consensus seems to be that they are pretty inaccurate. Today I drove to the airport where the elevation is known and there also happens to be a national weather station that reports barometric pressure by the minute on the internet. I first calibrated the barometric altimeter using the known elevation of 1084 m. When I did so the barometer then read within 0.1 millibars. I don't know how much of an error 1 tenth of a millibar is or if that is significant at all. I then calibrated using the known barometric pressure. When I did so, the elevation reported was 1080 m, or 4 m lower than the known elevation. An error of 4 m seems pretty reasonable to me since the landscape around the airport is generally pretty flat, but definitely not perfectly flat and I don't know where exactly the 1084 m was measured. I also wonder how high above (or below) my standing position the weather station's barometer is. Either of these factors, I would think, could easily account for a 4 m or 0.1 millibar error. So with my newly calibrated barometric altimeter, I set off to find a few benchmarks of known elevation. I managed to find two. At the first one, my 62s reported the elevation to be 1082 m. The benchmark's reported elevation was 1081.6 m. A mere 40 cm variance that is most likely attributable to rounding. At the second benchmark, my 62s reported 1057 m, where the benchmark's known elevation was 1056.1 m. This time 90 cm variance so can't really chalk it up entirely to rounding error. Since dinner I have had my 62s sitting out on my back deck. I have been checking the barometer readings every hour or so and comparing them to the reports coming from a WeatherBug backyard weather station located 20 km away from my house and sitting about 34 m lower in elevation according to GoogleEarth. Each time I compare the two, my 62s reports the barometric pressure to be 0.6 millibars lower than the number reported by the weather station. Does 0.6 millibars equate to roughly 34 m? From what I can tell that is a very complex question that involves a lot more than a simple calculation. However, the fact that the numbers are consistently 0.6 millibars apart is good enough for me. Since calibrating the 62s at the airport, I have also noticed that the 62s reports the elevation at my house within 1 m of what GoogleEarth says that it should be. I checked 4 or 5 other places as I travelled around today with my aircard connected laptop running Google Earth. None of the checks I did were out by more than 5 m from what Google Earth said they should be. I don't know what DEM Google Earth is based on, but I would guess that it is not meant to provide accuracy better than 5 m for vertical data. All in all, its been a good excercise that has demonstrated to me that I can trust the 62s to give me the information that I want with precision reasonable for my purposes. Was that hike I just did an 800 m elevation gain or 700 m? Is the weather going to get really ugly, really soon? Should I hunker down now, or can we keep plugging along to the next camp site?

With all of the announcements lately, the Montana, the expanded 62 series, the new eTrex series, its no wonder REI has been selling the 62s for an incredible $280. They must have bought a boat load of inventory of the 62s and realized that they are suddenly going to be a bit tougher to sell with so many more options hitting the market in the next few months. I wonder how REI's relationship is with Garmin is these days....

As far as Oregon vs 62s, the camera is no longer a deciding factor as they have just announced the 62sc. Now it is pretty much just down to sunlight readable screen with buttons, or a hard to read, higher resolution touch screen. Still a very touch decision.

Free maps are great. Just realize that the one limitation that I found with them is that they do not (at least for Garmin units) contain any DEM data so you will be relying on the basemap DEM which is very innacurate. Garmin keeps its DEM close to the chest so nobody has been able to figure out how to get the free DEM data that is out there into a format that can be loaded onto the Garmins. Don't know if other brands are more open in this respect. This might not mean a lot to you but it could become meaningful once you get going with this digital mapping/GPS hobby. Depends on what you expect out of your GPSr. I have a couple of younger kids and a wife that I have to consider when selecting our hikes/geocache adventures. If I pick a cache that requires a 700m elevation gain over 4km, it will most likely be the last time my family goes geocaching. So being able to get an accurate track/route elevation profile is high enough on my list of priorities that I purchased Topo Canada for that reason alone. With Ibycus Topo (free) I had no DEM. The Garmin Basemap DEM is often off by 200-300m. So that trail that looks like a leisurely stroll according to Garmin Basemap DEM could end up be quite a climb. Also keep in mind that the Garmin on-line prices are generally quite a bit higher than what you will find at local GPSr dealers. GPS City in Calgary sells TOPO Canada for $79 on DVD. Garmin website lists is at $150. Several more mainstream outdoor retailers that sell Garmin products also sell these for Garmin list prices. I highly recommend getting to know the staff at your local GPSr shop.

How many maps you want depends on what you plan to get out of your GPSr. It is pretty safe to say though that Basemap will be totally useless to you. The City Navigator pack basically gives your mapping handheld the same set of maps and POI's that the Garmin Nuvi's come with. No spoken directions with most handhelds (see the uber expensive Montana with add-on speech accessory), but turn-by-turn directions on screen. The topo maps that come pre-loaded are pretty good. Just realize that they are 100k. So not as accurate or detailed as 50k or 25k. If you plan on hiking/backpacking at all and want accurate elevation data for trails not yet travelled, you will want a Garmin Topo map pack added for sure. The built-in 100k maps come with decent DEM data for this, but any third party free ones do not and the basemap DEM is very poor. (DEM stands for Digital Elevation Model) If you just want good topo maps and are not worried about DEM data, there are lots of free ones out there that are as good or better than the Garmin 25k and 50k maps so don't pay extra for the built in 100k maps if all you want is topo maps. Don't know if I have answered all of your questions. I went through all of this recently myself so I know where you are coming from. Its a lot of information to absorb. Again, it all depends on what you plan on doing and what you expect to get from your handheld. Maybe put together a little list of your intended uses.

That is a point not lost on me. Boy scout motto. "Be prepared". My current practice, before setting out, is to pull out my topo, check the declination, set my compass, and off we go. Of course I am glossing over a few steps,so please don't call me on "didn't you forget to tie your boots?" My thought here was if I pull out that map and it doesn't have my hand written delination on it for some reason, I could use my GPSr to get that info. Of course, if at that point the GPSr is already dead, I might think twice about heading out. I am hoping it at least makes it to the trailhead. If I find myself out in the middle of who-knows-where with a map with no declination noted, a compass with the wrong declination dialed in, and a dead GPSr, then I am obviously not a very good boy scout, but hopefully a better pray"er".

Hence, the reason I want my GPSr to tell me declination. I didn't think we had to spell it out, but thanks for doing that myotis. I am glad that someone else "gets it".

Thanks again Grasscatcher. I have a compass that has declination adjustment thanks. And I always do use true North as my reference. I also have mapping software. MemoryMap to be specific. When I print a map from MemoryMap, there is no option to print on the map, as any topo map has, an indication of declination. As I have said, I could hand write it on the map after printing, but also was just curious as to whether my wonder of technology called a GPSr would tell me the declination for a given position, without a having to do extra math (yes, I avoid math when I can), in case I happen to neglect to write it on the map at time of printing. At any rate, thanks for your input. It seems that the consensus is that the 62s does not have the functionality that the 60 series is rumored to have. Nobody has confirmed for certain that the 60 series does this either I might add.