Jump to content

Splitting Geocaching.com into separate games


Web-ling
Followers 0

Recommended Posts

I've always supported virtuals and "locationless" caches, and am excited about the addition of benchmarks. My thinking has changed, however, in regards to keeping them all in one database as a single game.

 

With the additions of benchmarking and "locationless caches", it seems the evolution of geocaching has hit a point where it needs to be split into separate games.

 

I envision three natural divisions in the existing game: Geocaching, Scavenger Hunting, and Waypointing.

 

Geocaching would include all caches where there are given coordinates and a physical box and/or logbook. These would include traditional caches, multi-caches, and letterbox or orienteering hybrids.

 

Scavenger Hunting would include "caches" where the coords are NOT given. These include the majority of the "locationless" caches.

 

Waypointing would include all "caches" where the coords are given, but there is no cache. Waypointing already has two separate games: Virtual Caching and Benchmarking. Others could be added. The ones I've thought of are Confluences, highpointing, and summit bagging. Confluences would include any mathematically-derived coordinates, including caches such as the Palindrome cache, Pair of Quintuplets, and Product of the Parts. Highpointing already exists, but there is no online database of county highpoints, nor has anyone compiled the coordinates. There is also no decent method of logging them. There are numerous websites with summit logs, but again, no database listing the various summits and their coordinates. I'm sure there are many other possible applications as well!

 

I would maintain these as separate databases, with seperate stats, with separate search engines. All of the stats would show up on the user profile, but separately.

 

It's exciting to see Geocaching.com continue to grow and evolve. I'm sure Jeremy has other ideas about expansion, but these are mine.

 

Keep up the great work, Jeremy! I can't wait to see what's next!

 

25021_1200.gif

 

[This message was edited by Web-ling on May 17, 2002 at 04:02 PM.]

Gee wiz, I wish this thing had a spell checker!

 

[This message was edited by Web-ling on May 17, 2002 at 04:07 PM.]

Link to comment

Count me in for geocaching and waypointing. (Scavenger hunting isn't my style, though.)

 

Seriously, though, that does seem like a rather logical way to split it all up. Whether or not it actually is formalized, I think I'll start using the "waypointing" term right away. icon_smile.gif

Link to comment

Count me in for geocaching and waypointing. (Scavenger hunting isn't my style, though.)

 

Seriously, though, that does seem like a rather logical way to split it all up. Whether or not it actually is formalized, I think I'll start using the "waypointing" term right away. icon_smile.gif

Link to comment

I personally like the site as it is.

I don't plan on going after the locationless caches that let you determine the location after you find the spot. I do check out what is available and may go after a set of coordinates if it sounds like an interesting adventure.

Today I logged my first two of many benchmarks, and will probably include one in a multicache. By keeping everything available in one site, somebody may find the part of the game that they like.

I just don't see any reason to spin off items that don't meet the pure geocaching concept

 

Doodad

Been there, Logged that, Got the T-shirt

Link to comment

Please keep these items in one database with a common access method. I like to be able to see them all together. Having exausted all the caches within an 90 minutes drive of my house (but one, and I'll go for that tomorrow). Locationless allow me to indulge in the hobby without necessarily having to devote use many gallons of gas. I do however like the idea of having these marked separately and searchable by cache icon.

Thanks,

AlanC

Link to comment

An interesting idea. For or against? I don't know. I do have a problem with locationless (find the thing first before you pull out your GPS) "caches". I see them more as postcards...not as finds. I'll go with whatever Jeremy thinks works. He's really done a pretty good job despite all the changes.

 

I have been thinking about something along these lines though. In a thriving economy or a thriving enviornment, all sorts of specialized niches open up and are filled. An example is perhaps "sunglass shops" in the mall. Or specialized critters that do one thing really well or can survive one only one source of food. I think the tech boom fit this scenario.

 

But in a failing economy or a changing environment these specializations are at risk, and the generalist does better for a time.

 

The specialist adds vibrance and creativity and variety (as well as something done really well)to a system. The generalist adds stability and long term growth and survival, and often benefits from what the specialist has added to the system, and needs the specialists occasional additions to make it stronger.

 

So what does this hogwash have to do with Geocaching? Well, we are advancing into the specialist stage. This is good but requires caution as well. We want innovation and creativity, but should be carefull not to risk the core stability of the sport. Don't grow too fast, keep the traditional cache as the main function of Geocaching, control the growth to where new cache forms make sense, not just anything goes. Stick to main interests that made this hppen in the first place...Gadgets, maps, adventure, the computer. Remember the tech bust.

 

Hogwash or common sense?

 

2573_200.jpg

Link to comment

I know! Make locationless a member's only feature! That'll get them off my list!

 

Actually, I thought I could easily ignore the dumb gnihcacoeg game, but now that one persistently shows up as the closest unfound cache to me because somebody decided to choose bogus coordinates within 10 miles of me even though the closest loggable instance is now 330 miles away, I'm preparing to declare war.

Link to comment

I like having everything integrated into one site (because it IS such a great site). That being said, a list of preference settings to screen out parts that don't particularly interest us individually (ie locationless caches) would help trim the fat for those who don't follow every new twist the game takes.

 

Greg

N 39° 54.705'

W 77° 33.137'

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by gnbrotz:

.... a list of preference settings to screen out parts that don't particularly interest us individually .....for those who don't follow every new twist the game takes.

 


 

If that is possible that would be darn near perfect from my point of view.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

Link to comment

Seems to me that everybody has different tastes... and many people like a couple of the "types" of caches and not others.

 

The best way to accommodate everyone would be to keep them in one site. The ability to chose to filter out particular types would be nice, but is not essential in my opinion.

Link to comment

I like the idea of keeping all kinds of caches in one place with the ability to search for the type you like. But in an area where there are not too many caches available or for people who can;t hike that much, having a variety of types is smart. And I am sure if this place decides not to handle virtual or locationless caches there will be someone willing to do it. Including me.

Link to comment

This is hard for us as we like them all, and don't want to see any of them go away. But we do understand the purists view, and if the game needed to be separated then Webling's idea is a good one. Most of us just don't like Waypoint as the third category as it'd be confusing since it is already a GC term (maybe Geospot).

 

We'd also like the My Page to stay the same, but reflect the new game aspects...ie; Caches you've found, Hunts you've been on, Geospots you've located.

 

Anyway, thanx for listening.

 

Mike (The DirtMan) Pellerin

aka Badger

dirtman@iname.com

 

Jason Dobson

aka "Jay" "J"

Myth8499@aol.com

Link to comment

My vote would be to keep it all together - to spread things out in different sites, pages, formulas begins to defeat. Also, do we want to creat a cast, click, elitist attitude amongst our fellow hobbyists or just enjoy the high tech gadgetry in any way we WANT to - and take what we want and leave the rest? IMHO - keep all together and just do whatever feels good!!

Link to comment

I made a comment last fall when virtuals were just starting to show up that I would hate to see the site turn into geotravel.com. Now that these locationless caches are spreading like weeds, it seems my fears are coming true.

 

There is a certain amount of skill that separates finding a phsysical cache and a virtual/locationless cache, as well as a better sense of adventure in finding a physical cache.

 

It would be nice to see separate categories, pages, and find counts for each type.

 

19973_600.gif The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

Link to comment

It strikes me that this hobby (it ain't a sport, guys, chill,) is better if it's more inclusive, not less. If you keep the different kinds of caches clearly separated, people can use their taste to visit only those sorts of caches they like, and there should be 'something for everyone'. On the other hand, if you don't support a kind of cache, you are, in effect, limiting access.

 

If a GPS is involved and there's an easy way to categorize it, it ought to be allowed and the category ought to be supported.

 

Some people love multicaches, some never bother. Should we delete multicaches because some people don't like them?

 

Substituted whatever you don't like for 'multicache'...

Link to comment

I don't agree that we should have formal regulation dividing the "rules" to a particular cache hunt into separate classes - it's all just people having fun with GPS exploration. If goecaching.com ever takes the role of dictating how I employ my GPS in these seeking games I know that I for one will be discouraged icon_frown.gif . There is a great abundance of creative talent represented in this community, let's not impede their right to self expression.

 

Instead, I recommend geocaching.com maintain it's status as a community center for GPS adventurers and continue to diversify it's service offerings. It should take on a role much like eBay has to the personal market sector. You can still search for items by date, category, seller or just about anything, you are not forced to sell your vintage albums in the "classical music section" if you consider it an "antique".

 

Using the same example, we can accommodate the request for separate GPS adventure classes by letting user groups establish their own "Highpointing club", "Waypointing club", or whatever, in a similar fashion to the way eBay allows users to open an "eBay Storefront" tailored to your own fashion. Geocaching.com should never restrict these different cache classes from outside users by regulation, but possibly by owner request, such as eBay's "Private auction" option, which requires additional fees.

 

I vote for a single common datebase and more filtering and non-specific club-oriented services.

Link to comment

I don't agree that we should have formal regulation dividing the "rules" to a particular cache hunt into separate classes - it's all just people having fun with GPS exploration. If goecaching.com ever takes the role of dictating how I employ my GPS in these seeking games I know that I for one will be discouraged icon_frown.gif . There is a great abundance of creative talent represented in this community, let's not impede their right to self expression.

 

Instead, I recommend geocaching.com maintain it's status as a community center for GPS adventurers and continue to diversify it's service offerings. It should take on a role much like eBay has to the personal market sector. You can still search for items by date, category, seller or just about anything, you are not forced to sell your vintage albums in the "classical music section" if you consider it an "antique".

 

Using the same example, we can accommodate the request for separate GPS adventure classes by letting user groups establish their own "Highpointing club", "Waypointing club", or whatever, in a similar fashion to the way eBay allows users to open an "eBay Storefront" tailored to your own fashion. Geocaching.com should never restrict these different cache classes from outside users by regulation, but possibly by owner request, such as eBay's "Private auction" option, which requires additional fees.

 

I vote for a single common datebase and more filtering and non-specific club-oriented services.

Link to comment

I like Web-ling’s proposal and would like to point out that it already exists at Geocaching.com to a degree. Look at Travel Bugs and the Travel Bug section of this site.

 

Travel bugs originated as hitch-hikers. Individual users attempted to track the movement of an object through the geocaching world using just email contact. Then someone came up with the idea to create a cache page for a hitch-hiker to facilitate the logging and tracking of its movements. An excellent example is "Scooby Doo, Where Are You" by Markwell. He has done an excellent job with them but his abilities exceed what the average cacher would be able to accomplish on their own.

 

Along came Travel Bugs and the Travel Bug section of this site. This addition brought the fun of hitch-hikers to the masses complete with the individual travel bug pages, logs and mapping abilities, for those who choose to participate. The Travel Bugs are a part of the overall game, but they aren’t caches. They are well integrated but distinctly separate. By looking at the Travel Bug pages you can see that the pages share a common Geocahing.com layout but are set apart by their blue background. I haven’t seen any argument that the hitch-hiker / Travel Bug evolution was a bad step for geocaching.

 

Other examples of how the site is already growing and adding subcategories:

 

Event Caches -event calendar making them easier to learn about and attend.

 

Loactionless Caches - Cachers can use a separate link to search for locationless caches. Now a cacher in England can easily find a locationless cache based in Australia, which they can choose to do or not to do.

 

Benchmarks - When this aspect is complete and comes online it will demonstrate how an activity related to geocaching can be integrated into the site without detracting with the existing game.

 

Web-lings proposal didn’t call for any current aspect of geocaching to be eliminated, in fact he suggested activities which could be added. EraSeek made a very valid point about controlled growth and keeping the core activity strong. Organization is key to keeping this growing activity / game / hobby simple and strong. A better Ebay analogy would be to compare an unstructured Geocaching.com site to Ebay having only one category: “Things for Sale.”

 

The suggestion that the site implement a detailed system of user defined filters to offer each cacher a customized view of the site sounds good as a concept but would most likely be prohibitive for economic or technical reasons. It could also discourage new users when they are faced with a complex series of choices.

 

In summary, I had enough free time this morning to write this but not enough time to go caching. icon_wink.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

 

[This message was edited by Whidbey Walk on May 29, 2002 at 06:58 PM.]

Link to comment

I like Web-ling’s proposal and would like to point out that it already exists at Geocaching.com to a degree. Look at Travel Bugs and the Travel Bug section of this site.

 

Travel bugs originated as hitch-hikers. Individual users attempted to track the movement of an object through the geocaching world using just email contact. Then someone came up with the idea to create a cache page for a hitch-hiker to facilitate the logging and tracking of its movements. An excellent example is "Scooby Doo, Where Are You" by Markwell. He has done an excellent job with them but his abilities exceed what the average cacher would be able to accomplish on their own.

 

Along came Travel Bugs and the Travel Bug section of this site. This addition brought the fun of hitch-hikers to the masses complete with the individual travel bug pages, logs and mapping abilities, for those who choose to participate. The Travel Bugs are a part of the overall game, but they aren’t caches. They are well integrated but distinctly separate. By looking at the Travel Bug pages you can see that the pages share a common Geocahing.com layout but are set apart by their blue background. I haven’t seen any argument that the hitch-hiker / Travel Bug evolution was a bad step for geocaching.

 

Other examples of how the site is already growing and adding subcategories:

 

Event Caches -event calendar making them easier to learn about and attend.

 

Loactionless Caches - Cachers can use a separate link to search for locationless caches. Now a cacher in England can easily find a locationless cache based in Australia, which they can choose to do or not to do.

 

Benchmarks - When this aspect is complete and comes online it will demonstrate how an activity related to geocaching can be integrated into the site without detracting with the existing game.

 

Web-lings proposal didn’t call for any current aspect of geocaching to be eliminated, in fact he suggested activities which could be added. EraSeek made a very valid point about controlled growth and keeping the core activity strong. Organization is key to keeping this growing activity / game / hobby simple and strong. A better Ebay analogy would be to compare an unstructured Geocaching.com site to Ebay having only one category: “Things for Sale.”

 

The suggestion that the site implement a detailed system of user defined filters to offer each cacher a customized view of the site sounds good as a concept but would most likely be prohibitive for economic or technical reasons. It could also discourage new users when they are faced with a complex series of choices.

 

In summary, I had enough free time this morning to write this but not enough time to go caching. icon_wink.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

 

[This message was edited by Whidbey Walk on May 29, 2002 at 06:58 PM.]

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

Benchmarks - When this aspect is complete and comes online it will demonstrate how an activity related to geocaching can be integrated into the site without detracting with the existing game.


 

Benchmarking already IS online, sort of, for members only. I've logged 12 finds so far.

 

25021_1200.gif

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 0
×
×
  • Create New...