Curious about a puzzle...

[Geoseekr]

I want to get some feedback from the Geocaching community before I get to work building this cache.

 

In general, how many people would be interested in a puzzle cache dealing with tech related things (for the puzzle, something to do with the internet, and the cache being a microcontroller based project)?

 

 

More specifically:

 

Puzzle:

The puzzle would be a list of sites. The person solving the puzzle would need to find the IP of the site using a ping through the command terminal. Then they would have to convert the IP to DWORD, which would leave them with a string of numbers. For instance:

 

Pinging www.geocaching.com [66.150.167.189] with 32 bytes of data:

 

The IP of www.geocaching.com is 66.150.167.189. (http://66.150.167.189 would bring you to geocaching.com)

 

Then convert that to DWORD: 66*256+150=*256+167=*256+189= 1117169597 (http://1117169597 would also bring you to geocaching.com)

 

So now the person solving the puzzle would have numbers, from which I could pull numbers to make the coordinates for the puzzle.

 

Cache:

The idea of this cache would be to have a box with an LCD screen and an RFID reader. When you turn on the box, it lists coordinates of another offset cache. When you go to that offset cache, you find an RFID tag in it and scan it. The box will then give you coordinates to another offset cache, at which you would do the same. After this, it would give you the coordinates of the final cache.

 

 

I would love to hear your opinion, and if you have any questions, let me know!

[+mpilchfamily]

The puzzle itself is good but all the offset caches will present many problems for you. At the very least you'll have allot of maintenance replacing batteries. You'll also have the RFID tags going missing all the time. Not to mention the offset caches themselves will likely be muggled on a regular basis. There are allot of tech scroungers out there that would love to pick up a free LCD screen and RFID reader. Not to mention whatever micro controller you use for the system. I just see you tossing out allot of money to keep this kind of cache active.

[+teamajk]

I'm curious what others will think. Puzzle caches in general seem to be interesting only to a certain subset of geocachers, and one this technical in nature would appeal to an even smaller subset. I think that whether it's worth the time and energy depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to create a hard puzzle that noone will be able to solve, that's one thing. If you hope for the cache to actually be found, then unless you know there are a lot of tech-y people in your area (based on the other types of puzzles that others are hiding and finding, for example) you'd probably have to give some pretty basic instructions about how to get through the steps. There are certainly some people who will make the effort to solve it and make the find (especially for an FTF), but your overall numbers are likely to stay small.

 

You might also want to think about the possible problems with putting out your LCD boxes (if I'm understanding you correctly). Will they be weather/water proof? Do they rely on battery power? Are they delicate instruments that could be easily damaged or destroyed by accident/muggles/animals/careless cachers? Good luck with whatever you decide and happy puzzling.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

Here is my perspective as a fellow geek.

 

I'm curious how you intend to clue the finders about pinging IP addresses. If you give them explicit instructions the puzzle will be tedious, not challenging. If you don't, I wonder how many people will figure out that's what they need to do. Also, I pinged the IP address you gave and got only timeout errors. Might be my OS (Snow Leopard).

 

The majority of geocachers will not be comfortable using the command line. In the worst case they might inadvertently do something to mess their computers up.

 

The RFID idea is interesting and I've thought about doing something with RFID myself. The main problem I see is that you will need to supply a reader since no one will have one. This means that the cacher will need to pick it up somewhere, carry it along, and bring it back to its starting point when done. If they don't return it the cache is dead. And if two cachers start a few minutes apart, the second cacher will have no way of knowing whether someone is using the reader or whether it is just gone.

 

I don't want to pooh-pooh the idea though. I really enjoy caches that are unique in some way. I am working on a microcontroller-based cache myself. My total cost will be under $20, so it isn't much of an investment if something goes wrong. BTW, I am requiring that cachers bring their own batteries, which gets around the battery maintenance issue.

[+Max and 99]

I like challenging and unique caches, but I think a cache like the one you mentioned would be way out of my league!

[Geoseekr]

I'm sorry, I should have elaborated a bit more on the puzzle. I thought about that, but had to leave for class.

 

I intend to leave the RFID reader at a local government owned property (i.e. a rec centre), and have the catcher "sign in" when they take it to the offset caches. The offset caches will have an RFID tag (only about $2USD) glued to the lid of the cache so as to deter theft. The reader will be in an enclosed metal box that I will make with the only easily accessible component being the batteries. Regular maintenance shouldn't be a problem, so I'll leave a spare set of batteries in case they run out, and check frequently to make sure things are okay.

 

I had the same response when I pinged the domain, but I pinged the domain name and it returned that IP, so the fact that the packet loss is 100% is irrelevant. The catcher just needs the IP.

 

If I left any questions unanswered, I'm sorry, its difficult to type from my phone. I'm aware that it will only appeal to a certain type of person, so perhaps after a week, I'll release a sort of "walkthrough" for the puzzle and the cache. Lets hope there's no thieves in my area!

 

I like challenging and unique caches, but I think a cache like the one you mentioned would be way out of my league!

 

Haha, it's only my first idea. I was inspired while working on a "reverse geocache" with my dad (GC2M9QE). Very fun stuff, and don't be intimidated! It's all very understandable once you dig into it a little bit.

 

Here is my perspective as a fellow geek.

 

I'm curious how you intend to clue the finders about pinging IP addresses. If you give them explicit instructions the puzzle will be tedious, not challenging. If you don't, I wonder how many people will figure out that's what they need to do. Also, I pinged the IP address you gave and got only timeout errors. Might be my OS (Snow Leopard).

 

The majority of geocachers will not be comfortable using the command line. In the worst case they might inadvertently do something to mess their computers up.

 

The RFID idea is interesting and I've thought about doing something with RFID myself. The main problem I see is that you will need to supply a reader since no one will have one. This means that the cacher will need to pick it up somewhere, carry it along, and bring it back to its starting point when done. If they don't return it the cache is dead. And if two cachers start a few minutes apart, the second cacher will have no way of knowing whether someone is using the reader or whether it is just gone.

 

I don't want to pooh-pooh the idea though. I really enjoy caches that are unique in some way. I am working on a microcontroller-based cache myself. My total cost will be under $20, so it isn't much of an investment if something goes wrong. BTW, I am requiring that cachers bring their own batteries, which gets around the battery maintenance issue.

 

I think I'll make the hint something like "ping, dword". As mentioned up at the top of the post, I hope to release a "walkthrough" of sorts after a week or two if people find it too challenging. It's always good to familiarize yourself with the command line! (Let's hope nobody messes up, I don't think there's anything similar to the ping command that can cause any issues.) I will be including an RFID Reader, Sparkfun offers what seems to be a good reader for about $30 USD (called ID-12, I believe). The best part is it's compatible with Arduino, which is the microcontroller I'll be using.

 

I am curious about your project, perhaps you can send me a message about your project and how it will be so cheap? !

Edited February 25, 2011 by Geoseekr

[+niraD]

It sounds like a fun adventure! You may need to include hints so people can figure out how the puzzle works though, otherwise most people will ignore it.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

I'm sorry, I should have elaborated a bit more on the puzzle. I thought about that, but had to leave for class.

 

I intend to leave the RFID reader at a local government owned property (i.e. a rec centre), and have the catcher "sign in" when they take it to the offset caches. The offset caches will have an RFID tag (only about $2USD) glued to the lid of the cache so as to deter theft. The reader will be in an enclosed metal box that I will make with the only easily accessible component being the batteries. Regular maintenance shouldn't be a problem, so I'll leave a spare set of batteries in case they run out, and check frequently to make sure things are okay.

 

I had the same response when I pinged the domain, but I pinged the domain name and it returned that IP, so the fact that the packet loss is 100% is irrelevant. The catcher just needs the IP.

 

If I left any questions unanswered, I'm sorry, its difficult to type from my phone. I'm aware that it will only appeal to a certain type of person, so perhaps after a week, I'll release a sort of "walkthrough" for the puzzle and the cache. Lets hope there's no thieves in my area!

 

I like challenging and unique caches, but I think a cache like the one you mentioned would be way out of my league!

 

Haha, it's only my first idea. I was inspired while working on a "reverse geocache" with my dad (GC2M9QE). Very fun stuff, and don't be intimidated! It's all very understandable once you dig into it a little bit.

 

Here is my perspective as a fellow geek.

 

I'm curious how you intend to clue the finders about pinging IP addresses. If you give them explicit instructions the puzzle will be tedious, not challenging. If you don't, I wonder how many people will figure out that's what they need to do. Also, I pinged the IP address you gave and got only timeout errors. Might be my OS (Snow Leopard).

 

The majority of geocachers will not be comfortable using the command line. In the worst case they might inadvertently do something to mess their computers up.

 

The RFID idea is interesting and I've thought about doing something with RFID myself. The main problem I see is that you will need to supply a reader since no one will have one. This means that the cacher will need to pick it up somewhere, carry it along, and bring it back to its starting point when done. If they don't return it the cache is dead. And if two cachers start a few minutes apart, the second cacher will have no way of knowing whether someone is using the reader or whether it is just gone.

 

I don't want to pooh-pooh the idea though. I really enjoy caches that are unique in some way. I am working on a microcontroller-based cache myself. My total cost will be under $20, so it isn't much of an investment if something goes wrong. BTW, I am requiring that cachers bring their own batteries, which gets around the battery maintenance issue.

 

I think I'll make the hint something like "ping, dword". As mentioned up at the top of the post, I hope to release a "walkthrough" of sorts after a week or two if people find it too challenging. It's always good to familiarize yourself with the command line! (Let's hope nobody messes up, I don't think there's anything similar to the ping command that can cause any issues.) I will be including an RFID Reader, Sparkfun offers what seems to be a good reader for about $30 USD (called ID-12, I believe). The best part is it's compatible with Arduino, which is the microcontroller I'll be using.

 

I am curious about your project, perhaps you can send me a message about your project and how it will be so cheap? !

 

No secret. What I am doing is called an "Atmega standalone." You buy a bootloaded Atmega328 from Sparkfun for $5.50, and pop it in your Arduino and program and test as usual. My other parts are a $1.50 blank circuit board from Radio Shack, a $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, and a $1.50 battery holder from Jameco. The rest of the circuit is just a handful of cheap red LEDs and current limiting resistors, which cost next to nothing, and a diode in case someone puts the batteries in backwards. I had a lot of this stuff from other projects. For my application (persistence of vision display) I made two of these gadgets for a total of about $20. Oh, I'm using Altoids tins for enclosures and will put those inside lock-n-locks.

 

You might enjoy this website: http://electricgeocaching.blogspot.com/

 

I love Sparkfun! I will be including a Sparkfun pocket protector as an FTF prize!

[+Mom-n-Andy]

BTW, you might be able to use an Atmega328 standalone for your project so you don't have to devote a whole Arduino to it.

[+DocWahala]

 

No secret. What I am doing is called an "Atmega standalone." You buy a bootloaded Atmega328 from Sparkfun for $5.50, and pop it in your Arduino and program and test as usual. My other parts are a $1.50 blank circuit board from Radio Shack, a $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, and a $1.50 battery holder from Jameco. The rest of the circuit is just a handful of cheap red LEDs and current limiting resistors, which cost next to nothing, and a diode in case someone puts the batteries in backwards. I had a lot of this stuff from other projects. For my application (persistence of vision display) I made two of these gadgets for a total of about $20. Oh, I'm using Altoids tins for enclosures and will put those inside lock-n-locks.

 

You might enjoy this website: http://electricgeocaching.blogspot.com/

 

I love Sparkfun! I will be including a Sparkfun pocket protector as an FTF prize!

 

Ceramic Resonator? Limiting resistorts? Neutrino? Quasar? Great, I really am a dinosaur, with my ammo can and the pressure switch from a Hallmark card which sings "Who let the dogs out".

 

DocWahala

[+Mom-n-Andy]

 

No secret. What I am doing is called an "Atmega standalone." You buy a bootloaded Atmega328 from Sparkfun for $5.50, and pop it in your Arduino and program and test as usual. My other parts are a $1.50 blank circuit board from Radio Shack, a $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, and a $1.50 battery holder from Jameco. The rest of the circuit is just a handful of cheap red LEDs and current limiting resistors, which cost next to nothing, and a diode in case someone puts the batteries in backwards. I had a lot of this stuff from other projects. For my application (persistence of vision display) I made two of these gadgets for a total of about $20. Oh, I'm using Altoids tins for enclosures and will put those inside lock-n-locks.

 

You might enjoy this website: http://electricgeocaching.blogspot.com/

 

I love Sparkfun! I will be including a Sparkfun pocket protector as an FTF prize!

 

Ceramic Resonator? Limiting resistorts? Neutrino? Quasar? Great, I really am a dinosaur, with my ammo can and the pressure switch from a Hallmark card which sings "Who let the dogs out".

 

DocWahala

 

Actually your cache sounds very creative and I bet it would be a hoot to find.

[+John in Valley Forge]

No secret. What I am doing is called an "Atmega standalone." You buy a bootloaded Atmega328 from Sparkfun for $5.50, and pop it in your Arduino and program and test as usual. My other parts are a $1.50 blank circuit board from Radio Shack, a $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, and a $1.50 battery holder from Jameco. The rest of the circuit is just a handful of cheap red LEDs and current limiting resistors, which cost next to nothing, and a diode in case someone puts the batteries in backwards. I had a lot of this stuff from other projects. For my application (persistence of vision display) I made two of these gadgets for a total of about $20. Oh, I'm using Altoids tins for enclosures and will put those inside lock-n-locks.

 

You might enjoy this website: http://electricgeoca...g.blogspot.com/

 

I love Sparkfun! I will be including a Sparkfun pocket protector as an FTF prize!

 

Ceramic Resonator? Limiting resistorts? Neutrino? Quasar? Great, I really am a dinosaur, with my ammo can and the pressure switch from a Hallmark card which sings "Who let the dogs out".

 

DocWahala

 

I found one of those, in an ammo can, in a dark cave, Halloween spooky voice/scream.

I had to change my underwear afterwards

[AZcachemeister]

I would probably look at your cache page for about 30 seconds...and then hit the IGNORE button.

There are maybe 20-30 cachers in Arizona who might actually try to figure it out

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

I would probably look at your cache page for about 30 seconds...and then hit the IGNORE button.

There are maybe 20-30 cachers in Arizona who might actually try to figure it out

 

But if it is that cool, there are 20 - 30 cachers who will love the cache. We're planning our first and I think it would be a blast if 20 or 30 people thought it was great.

[JohnX]

My other parts are a ... $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, ...

Reading the '328 data sheet might be in order. Perhaps page 27 of Atmel publication doc8271.doc would be an interesting place to start. Running without a voltage regulator? How is the display going to fit inside an Altoids tin? Batteries? Don't forget the decoupling caps.

 

Thanks for the Altoids tin comment. That really made me smile. My opinion is there are so many possible failure modes in your hardware concept and cache finding process that the chances of deploying the cache and even one person finding it approaches zero.

 

Best of luck in your endeavors. You can send a PM with questions if you would like.

Edited February 26, 2011 by JohnX

[+fizzymagic]

Advice: I would learn more about the Internet and how IP addresses work as part of the project. Ping is not needed to find addresses (that's what DNS is for), for example. Your description in the OP doesn't actually make sense, though the idea of using IP addresses to make a puzzle cache is not new.

 

However, the idea of a microcontroller-based puzzle cache is a good one. I'm not sure making it internet-based is the best solution, though....

 

Do you have a location with consistent AC power that you can use as a virtual waypoint? In that case you could use Bluetooth or wifi for the cacher to connect to the device, which would then give them clues to the final location.

 

Oh, and if you want to use a microcontroller: use an Arduino. Don't mess with individual parts unless you really want to make that a big part of your project.

Edited February 26, 2011 by fizzymagic

[Geoseekr]

Advice: I would learn more about the Internet and how IP addresses work as part of the project. Ping is not needed to find addresses (that's what DNS is for), for example. Your description in the OP doesn't actually make sense, though the idea of using IP addresses to make a puzzle cache is not new.

 

However, the idea of a microcontroller-based puzzle cache is a good one. I'm not sure making it internet-based is the best solution, though....

 

Do you have a location with consistent AC power that you can use as a virtual waypoint? In that case you could use Bluetooth or wifi for the cacher to connect to the device, which would then give them clues to the final location.

 

Oh, and if you want to use a microcontroller: use an Arduino. Don't mess with individual parts unless you really want to make that a big part of your project.

 

I do agree that I should perhaps do a little more research. The puzzle idea came when I was looking in to how phishing attempts work (I plan on naming my cache 'Gone Phishing' or something of the sort ). The ping command, although perhaps not needed, is a viable method of finding an IP address, is it not? Also, I would love to know what aspect of my original post doesn't make sense. To me it seems fine...

 

The physical cache will not be internet-based. It will "randomly" pick one of three offset caches and display the coordinates on an LCD screen. The coordinates for the offset caches will be stored in the program running on the Arduino. After they go to that offset cache and scan the RFID, it will pick one of the two remaining offset caches. After they scan all 3 RFID tags, it will display the coordinates to the final.

 

I will be using an Arduino. Don't feel like messing with parts, as you said.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

My other parts are a ... $1.00 ceramic resonator from Sparkfun, ...

Reading the '328 data sheet might be in order. Perhaps page 27 of Atmel publication doc8271.doc would be an interesting place to start. Running without a voltage regulator? How is the display going to fit inside an Altoids tin? Batteries? Don't forget the decoupling caps.

 

Thanks for the Altoids tin comment. That really made me smile. My opinion is there are so many possible failure modes in your hardware concept and cache finding process that the chances of deploying the cache and even one person finding it approaches zero.

 

Best of luck in your endeavors. You can send a PM with questions if you would like.

 

I hope that your intent was to be helpful and I'll answer in that spirit. The battery pack is attached to the outside of the altoids tin, so it is accessible to the cachers (who supply their own batteries). The only thing inside is a small circuit board with the microprocessor and other components. The LEDs stick through holes drilled in one side of the tin so they are visible. I am using 3 AA batteries for 4.5 volts so no voltage regulator is needed. The ceramic resonator does not require caps. It may not be as accurate as a crystal, but it is good enough for the application. Finally, I am including an alternative way for cachers to get the needed information in case of problems, which would convert this into a standard multicache. What failure mode have I not addressed?

 

For more information, see http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/AtmegaStandalone The original poster might find this useful too since it is the cheapest way to make an arduino-powered device.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

Advice: I would learn more about the Internet and how IP addresses work as part of the project. Ping is not needed to find addresses (that's what DNS is for), for example. Your description in the OP doesn't actually make sense, though the idea of using IP addresses to make a puzzle cache is not new.

 

However, the idea of a microcontroller-based puzzle cache is a good one. I'm not sure making it internet-based is the best solution, though....

 

Do you have a location with consistent AC power that you can use as a virtual waypoint? In that case you could use Bluetooth or wifi for the cacher to connect to the device, which would then give them clues to the final location.

 

Oh, and if you want to use a microcontroller: use an Arduino. Don't mess with individual parts unless you really want to make that a big part of your project.

 

I do agree that I should perhaps do a little more research. The puzzle idea came when I was looking in to how phishing attempts work (I plan on naming my cache 'Gone Phishing' or something of the sort ). The ping command, although perhaps not needed, is a viable method of finding an IP address, is it not? Also, I would love to know what aspect of my original post doesn't make sense. To me it seems fine...

 

The physical cache will not be internet-based. It will "randomly" pick one of three offset caches and display the coordinates on an LCD screen. The coordinates for the offset caches will be stored in the program running on the Arduino. After they go to that offset cache and scan the RFID, it will pick one of the two remaining offset caches. After they scan all 3 RFID tags, it will display the coordinates to the final.

 

I will be using an Arduino. Don't feel like messing with parts, as you said.

 

I think the cache part is interesting enough to stand on its own. You may not even need the puzzle. If you do want to include a puzzle maybe you could base it on the area where the cache would be located. It sounds neat and I would definitely do it if I were in the area.

[JohnX]

I hope that your intent was to be helpful and I'll answer in that spirit. ... What failure mode have I not addressed?

The failure mode was me not realizing that there were two posters discussing different concepts. The Altoids tin is amusing because of the meme that a device is not cool unless it fits into one.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

I hope that your intent was to be helpful and I'll answer in that spirit. ... What failure mode have I not addressed?

The failure mode was me not realizing that there were two posters discussing different concepts. The Altoids tin is amusing because of the meme that a device is not cool unless it fits into one.

 

I COULD have bought a standard boring plastic enclosure at Radio Shack. But since Altoids tins are so universally hated as geocaching containers, I thought a few people would enjoy the irony of using them for this. They'll be hidden inside much more appropriate outer containers though!