Private Property

[KJLynn25]

[+popokiiti]

We recently found a couple of caches along a coastal walk. These were in our neighbourhood, and at one point we had to cross in front of a house that had 'no trespassing' signs. They had a huge lawn that went down to the cliff edge. To continue along the cliff walk, we had to scramble down the rocks (there was no way we could avoid their very long ramp) through water that was being discharged from their property and climb back up again. On our return, we could see the path we should have taken...the very edge of their manicured lawn, next to a flower bed. We took it! On checking we found that the the original path/rock had been blasted for the ramp that went down to the ocean, and the manicured lawn is actually a public right of way. Those strategically placed 'No Trespassing' signs actually marked the property's border and the lawn has encroached on the cliff walk and more. If our rural council only knew that they have done this, and planted non-native species on public land to boot.....That house is up for sale - only $1.9 million!

[+Ucrew]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

[+Castle Mischief]

With respect to the "cases in the past" that you allude to, there must be more to those "cases" that prompted the police to destroy something the property owner had vouched for.

 

Um, nope, not really. If you think that there needs to be "more to" an instance that will bring in the bomb squad you haven't read many reports or haven't read many posts from the LEOs that have explained the escalation process on these forums.

[+Too Tall John]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

I notice there is no "Found It" log for a cache that fits the description of your situation (that is, no cache found on the 31st that suggests you "drive right up to it", or that doesn't appear to be a roadside stop on in a parking lot, or that you mention it being on your property in your logs). For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

[+Ucrew]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

I notice there is no "Found It" log for a cache that fits the description of your situation (that is, no cache found on the 31st that suggests you "drive right up to it", or that doesn't appear to be a roadside stop on in a parking lot, or that you mention it being on your property in your logs). For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

 

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

[+Too Tall John]

For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

Thanks for the link. No, you did nothing wrong. In fact, I commend you on your patience as the landowner.

 

Here's my advice: You found the cache, post a found it log. It is your property, so it all depends on how you want it handled. Ask the cache owner to edit the description to reflect how you'd like the cache approached, ask them to move the cache to a location you are comfortable with, or ask them to remove the cache altogether. Your choice. If they don't respond, you can contact your reviewer, The Seanachai, to have the cache archived.

[+myotis]

Encountered a cache recently suspended in a 10 foot culvert under a public road and the land owner that had cows and a barn nearby came over and asked what I was doing and got mad and said it was private property.

 

So... Culverts under a public road. State Property? City Property? or Land Owner's Property?

 

Me and the Cache Owner agreed that it would be considered State or City Property.

 

What do y'all think?

 

Who cares whose property it is. If the nearby landowner claims it as his property, why not move it and avoid the potential of others cachers having a confrontation with him or the landowner removing the cache? How do you know the landowner is not some nut case that might shoot somoene or set a trap? Just because it is possible to put a cache someplace, is not a reason to put a cache there. If this was something other than a mindless numbers hound cache, I could understand thinking about keeping it on public land being claimed by someone else. There are millions of culverts like this. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all.

[Mr.Yuck]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

I notice there is no "Found It" log for a cache that fits the description of your situation (that is, no cache found on the 31st that suggests you "drive right up to it", or that doesn't appear to be a roadside stop on in a parking lot, or that you mention it being on your property in your logs). For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

 

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

 

The last two find logs are lame smartphone logs. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Seems like a "just off the Wal-Mart parking lot" hide. Why on earth they'd encourage people to 4 wheel it on the grass of what looks to be private property is beyond me. Is there a fence between the Wal-Mart property and yours?

 

Either way, if you want it removed, tell the cache owner it's your property, and you'd like it removed. If you decide to let it stay, and don't like people 4 wheeling on your property, have him remove that text.

[+myotis]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

I notice there is no "Found It" log for a cache that fits the description of your situation (that is, no cache found on the 31st that suggests you "drive right up to it", or that doesn't appear to be a roadside stop on in a parking lot, or that you mention it being on your property in your logs). For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

 

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

 

I would suggest you either:

 

1) Post a SBA pointing out the jerk placed the cache on your private property without permission but if they would have been a responsible cacher and asked, you would have granted it.

 

2) Find out where they live and place a cache on their house next to their bedroom window.

 

I would also look into the trespassing laws and see if the cache placer can be prosecuted for trespassing.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Interesting topic.

 

As we were out caching today we came across one that was hidden on our private property.

 

As someone who has recently became addicted to geocaching, I wouldn't have a problem with it being on our property if it were on the outside fringes.

 

I do however have concerns with it being quite a distance off the road and potential finders being encouraged to "drive right up to it".

 

For our personal situation, it would have been very kind for the person placing it to have contacted us and requested permission.

I notice there is no "Found It" log for a cache that fits the description of your situation (that is, no cache found on the 31st that suggests you "drive right up to it", or that doesn't appear to be a roadside stop on in a parking lot, or that you mention it being on your property in your logs). For the sake of the discussion, can you share which cache this is? I'm guessing that you posted something other than a "Found It" log, which would not show up on your public profile.

 

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

 

Someone did something incorrectly, but it wasn't you. In fact, you have shown much more patience and consideration than I would, had I been in your situation.

 

I recommend that you select "Needs Archived" as the log type when you log the cache. Explain in your log that you own the property and the cache was placed there without your permission.

 

Unless, of course, you want to allow the cache. In that case, you could contact the cache owner and ask them to take off the part about driving up to the cache.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

I would suggest you either:

 

1) Post a SBA pointing out the jerk placed the cache on your private property without permission but if they would have been a responsible cacher and asked, you would have granted it.

 

2) Find out where they live and place a cache on their house next to their bedroom window.

Because two wrongs makes a right?

 

I would also look into the trespassing laws and see if the cache placer can be prosecuted for trespassing.

 

Now you're just being silly. Unless the cache placer walked (or drove) past 'posted' signs while placing the cache, or has previously been warned not to come onto the property, there's no way the police are going to arrest him for trespassing.

[+dbrierley]

I saved the log to be submitted later and sent an email to the cache owner asking who permission had been obtained from. I was rather unsure how to handle it so started looking in the forums for guidance.

Here is the one I speak of Its lonely at the top

 

I'm still new at this so I apologize if I have done something incorrectly.

 

If the cache owner doesn't respond to your message, a "needs archived" note would be very appropriate. You would be free to dispose of/recycle the cache as you see fit. Some landowners turn the geocaches over to the police.

[+Ucrew]

I really don't want to appear to be a grumpy landholder who is taking fun away from someone.....heck, I'm sure even with my handful of finds, I have trespassed on more than 1 occasion.

I feel guilty complaining about it. If everyone who had a cache placed in their property found out and threw a fit, there wouldn't be much fun for us any longer.

I have no issue with the cache remaining on our property, as long as it was moved down closer to the road so it could be reached without as much of an intrusion.

 

There is no fence between Walmart and our property.

 

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! I appreciate it very much!

[+Chokecherry]

I might also put a note up on the page if it was me asking that people don't drive right up to it because it is your property. That should alleviate some of the issue with the cache finders until you can sort things out with the owner as well.

 

That is if you aren't planning an immediate NA.

[+sbell111]

Some believe that no permission is required in such scenarios. Call this the frisbee rule, if you must.

Some people believe some rather strange things, but they are not grounded in any form of reality. Permission is required to appropriate anothersd private property to your own use or the use is invalid and without license is a trespass.

In most jurisdictions, you are quite incorrect.

 

Your opinion seems to run contrary to the facts.

Just because some chuckleheaded store manager said someone could hide a cache in the parking lot doesn't mean they were right to do so. <Off topic stuff deleted>

 

So, it isn't beyond the realm of imagination that a store manager could go against the advise and/or policies of the home office. Out of the thousands of Wal-Marts out there, I guarantee you'll find one who will. Doesn't mean they were right to do it.

Whether or not an employee is right to do something is between him and the company. That doesn't mean that an employee cannot enter the company into a legal agreement, however. It is not for an outsider to decide who at a company is empowered to provide such permission.

 

Also, it should be noted that an employee can indeed give legal permission for many things that the employer may not approve of.

I hid a cache at the top of an old ski area near me (and another one part way up). Went to the base lodge, talked to "Dana", the man living there who presented himself as the owner of the property. He was running an adventure camp from there, and had maps of the trails he was "maintaining." "Dana" seemed excited about the idea of the cache. So, off I went.

 

Two and a half years later, I get a call that the State Police are concerned about my caches. After a few phone calls, I spoke with the guy who was leasing the land from the owner. Turns out,"Dana" was not the owner, but was from what I can gather living there in exchange for keeping an eye on the place. He got into some trouble, I'm assuming it has to do with the fact he was running a business out of the place w/out permission. I mentioned "Dana's" name initially, and was told "OH! If you talk with the owner, don't, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES mention that name! He's persona non grata 'round him!" The lessor had a radio tower on the mountain that had, among other things, a State Police radio repeater on it that people had apparently been base jumping from! The land was being posted. I got permission to go up one last time & retrieve the caches.

 

It is, in fact, possible for an employee to give permission that is not legal. "Dana's" permission wasn't legal.

You are misusing the word 'legal'. Dana's permission does appear to have been 'legal', as he was the landmanager at the time that you hid the cache. Permission was later rescinded by the landowner. This rescinsion did not make the prior permission illegal. Edited November 2, 2010 by sbell111

[+Too Tall John]

It is not for an outsider to decide who at a company is enpowered to provide such permission.

If, according to you, a former employee can't offer insight into what Wal-Mart's stand on this might be, you certainly shouldn't be offering any opinion either.

[+sbell111]

It is not for an outsider to decide who at a company is empowered to provide such permission.

If, according to you, a former employee can't offer insight into what Wal-Mart's stand on this might be, you certainly shouldn't be offering any opinion either.

It's like you didn't even read my post. You see, I am not taking the position as to what WalMart Corporation may or may not permit within their organization or without. I am merely making a general comment regarding the legal ability for an employee of any company to enter into an agreement. This ability to bind a company is controlled by local laws, not company policies.

Edited November 2, 2010 by sbell111

[+Too Tall John]

It is not for an outsider to decide who at a company is empowered to provide such permission.

If, according to you, a former employee can't offer insight into what Wal-Mart's stand on this might be, you certainly shouldn't be offering any opinion either.

It's like you didn't even read my post. You see, I am not taking the position as to what WalMart Corporation may or may not permit within their organization or without. I am merely making a general comment regarding the legal ability for an employee of any company to enter into an agreement. This ability to bind a company is controlled by local laws, not company policies.

My post was all about what Wal-Mart will and won't allow. If your post was really not about that, why did you quote it?

 

Must not have read the post, eh?

[+sbell111]

It is not for an outsider to decide who at a company is empowered to provide such permission.

If, according to you, a former employee can't offer insight into what Wal-Mart's stand on this might be, you certainly shouldn't be offering any opinion either.

It's like you didn't even read my post. You see, I am not taking the position as to what WalMart Corporation may or may not permit within their organization or without. I am merely making a general comment regarding the legal ability for an employee of any company to enter into an agreement. This ability to bind a company is controlled by local laws, not company policies.

My post was all about what Wal-Mart will and won't allow. If your post was really not about that, why did you quote it?

 

Must not have read the post, eh?

I quoted it because my post was related to it. You posted something that was clearly in error. I explained why you were incorrect. My reason for you being incorrect had nothing to do with any company's policies.

 

As previously mentioned, you clearly have no desire here except to argue.

[+Too Tall John]

As previously mentioned, you clearly have no desire here except to argue.

Not really. I'd insert a cute picture here of a pot and a kettle here, but your protests will fall on deaf ears after this:

 

Plonk.

 

There, no more arguing.

[+sbell111]

As previously mentioned, you clearly have no desire here except to argue.

Not really. I'd insert a cute picture here of a pot and a kettle here, but your protests will fall on deaf ears after this:

 

Plonk.

 

There, no more arguing.

You've made that promise before.

[+Packanack]

In most jurisdictions, you are quite incorrect.

 

Name one.

[+sbell111]

In most jurisdictions, you are quite incorrect.

 

Name one.

Do you still live in New Jersey?

[+Ecylram]

In most jurisdictions, you are quite incorrect.

 

Name one.

Even though I don't agree with "most"...

 

Naming one - England

[+dbrierley]

I really don't want to appear to be a grumpy landholder who is taking fun away from someone.....heck, I'm sure even with my handful of finds, I have trespassed on more than 1 occasion.

I feel guilty complaining about it. If everyone who had a cache placed in their property found out and threw a fit, there wouldn't be much fun for us any longer.

I have no issue with the cache remaining on our property, as long as it was moved down closer to the road so it could be reached without as much of an intrusion.

 

The cache has been archived at the request of the landholder: GC1XT5W

[knowschad]

According to one report: the local police stated, "Had the geocacher who hid the cache contacted Wal-Mart for permission before placing the cache the 14 officers, two bomb trucks, a bomb trailer, a fire truck and a medical unit would not have been dispatched."

 

Directing this to the statement itself, not to 'mulvaney': Pfffft. Yeah right. More likely any of the management would have denied any knowledge of the cache and the bomb squad would have been called in anyway "just in case".

 

As the author of the article in question, I stand by that statement, which is based on several emails I exchanged with an information officer with the Plano PD.

 

In response to my question about who saw the suspicious activity (i.e. the cachers retrieving/replacing the cache), he said: "Walmart security saw it happen and reported it. If the individuals hiding the item would of contacted Wal Mart this would not of happened." (That is a direct quote from one of the emails he sent.)

 

If Walmart had granted permission for the cache to be on their property their security people would have been aware of it and probably not felt compelled to report the activity to the police after determining it was related to the geocache. If they called the police anyways and the cache owner could prove that he had permission to place the cache, I suspect that a) the police would have had a conversation with the Walmart security people about doing due diligence before calling the police (but to always err on the side of caution if there's any doubt), and b ) the cache owner might have been asked to remove the cache anyways.

 

I was not aware that it was Wal-Mart security that had spoted the cache in the first place. I do not doubt that the officer said what he said or the truthfulness of your reporting- however there have been cases in the past where the property owner was aware of the cache, was on site, had told the police that it was harmless and the cache was destroyed anyway, "just in case".

Coming in very late on this, I still must say that even had Walmart given explicit, written permission for the cache, there is no way of knowing if the particular security officer, or for that matter, any of the security department would have known about said permission.

[knowschad]

it's on the grounds of a brand-spanking new Hooters

Interesting choice of words, there, Mr Y!

[+Ucrew]

I really don't want to appear to be a grumpy landholder who is taking fun away from someone.....heck, I'm sure even with my handful of finds, I have trespassed on more than 1 occasion.

I feel guilty complaining about it. If everyone who had a cache placed in their property found out and threw a fit, there wouldn't be much fun for us any longer.

I have no issue with the cache remaining on our property, as long as it was moved down closer to the road so it could be reached without as much of an intrusion.

 

The cache has been archived at the request of the landholder: GC1XT5W

 

Thank you very much for your prompt attention!