RESET when original station is in good condition

[Okie'sKid]

Yesterday just driving home from Augusta, MT, I spotted not 1 but 4 WPs!! One of my rules says "even if I'm not brass hunting, I have to stop if I see 2 WPs" Now 4 was a MUST stop. Turned out to be an interesting find.

 

The 4 WPs were for ST0254 P 233

 

 

Did I mention I spotted the WPs just after seeing some sort of a replica of the BatMobile scooting down the highway at about Mach 1? (No, I didn't make that up)

 

While at P 233 (which is in good condition), I spotted 3 more WPs just to the west. Upon investigation I found DI3448 P 233 RESET 2006 (not in GS database).

 

 

When I went to NGS for the DS for the RESET to see if the description mentioned the fact that the original station was found in good condition, gave call from original station, etc, I found the DS truncated. Not much info beyond the lat/long and z. (George, can you help out here?)

 

 

This all brings up what seems to me to be an obvious question: Why was a RESET set when the original brass and concrete are in good condition? The original metal sign is still attached to the original post. The Carsonite WPs are of the same vintage. Was it reset with the thot that the original might be lost to the road-widening project being planned in 2006? (which is done, BTW, with no damage to the original)

 

Maybe George and/or Dave or someone else who knows more than me can weigh in on the question. As for me, as for right now, I'm really late for breakfast at the No Sweat Cafe (didn't make that up either)

[+m&h]

Your guesses as to the reset are as good as ours. We've found this situation ourselves a few times. Resets are tremendously eased, of course, if they can be done from a sound original before its destruction. We had no trouble loading it, so here's the whole sheet for the reset:

 

 

The NGS Data Sheet

 

See file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.

 

DATABASE = ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 7.82

1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = APRIL 18, 2010

DI3448 ***********************************************************************

DI3448 DESIGNATION - P 233 RESET

DI3448 PID - DI3448

DI3448 STATE/COUNTY- MT/LEWIS AND CLARK

DI3448 USGS QUAD - KRONE RANCH (1963)

DI3448

DI3448 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL

DI3448 ___________________________________________________________________

DI3448* NAD 83(1986)- 47 22 01. (N) 112 17 26. (W) SCALED

DI3448* NAVD 88 - 1370.85 (meters) 4497.5 (feet) RESET

DI3448 ___________________________________________________________________

DI3448 GEOID HEIGHT- -13.74 (meters) GEOID09

DI3448 VERT ORDER - THIRD

DI3448

DI3448.The horizontal coordinates were scaled from a topographic map and have

DI3448.an estimated accuracy of +/- 6 seconds.

DI3448

DI3448.The orthometric height was computed from unverified reset data.

DI3448.No vertical observational check was made to the station.

DI3448

DI3448.The geoid height was determined by GEOID09.

DI3448

DI3448; North East Units Estimated Accuracy

DI3448;SPC MT - 350,100. 389,390. MT (+/- 180 meters Scaled)

DI3448

DI3448 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL

DI3448

DI3448.No superseded survey control is available for this station.

DI3448

DI3448_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 12TVT025467(NAD 83)

DI3448_MARKER: F = FLANGE-ENCASED ROD

DI3448_SETTING: 15 = METAL ROD DRIVEN INTO GROUND. SEE TEXT FOR ADDITIONAL

DI3448+WITH SETTING: INFORMATION.

DI3448_STAMPING: P 233 RESET 2006

DI3448_MARK LOGO: NGS

DI3448_MAGNETIC: I = MARKER IS A STEEL ROD

DI3448_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO

DI3448+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION

DI3448

DI3448 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

DI3448 HISTORY - 2006 MONUMENTED MTDOT

DI3448

DI3448 STATION DESCRIPTION

DI3448

DI3448'DESCRIBED BY MONTANA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2006 (JOW)

DI3448'TO REACH THE STATION FROM BOWMANS CORNER (JUNCTION OF HWY 287 AND HWY

DI3448'200) TRAVELING TOWARD AUGUSTA 8.28 MILES (13.33 KM) AT MP 28.48. MARK

DI3448'IS 70 FEET (21.3 M) WEST OF FENCE AND 91 FEET (27.7 M) SOUTH OF NEW

DI3448'HWY R/W AND 195 FEET (59.4 M) SOUTH OF NEW CENTERLINE. MARK IS 1.5

DI3448'FEET (0.5 M) NORTH OF NGS CARSONITE POST, 3 FEET (0.9 M) WEST OF STEEL

DI3448'POST, 3 FEET (0.9 M) EAST OF STEEL POST AND FENCE. ROD DRIVEN 2.07 M

DI3448'(6.79 FT) TO REFUSAL. TOP OF ROD RECESSED 7.62 CM BELOW MONUMENT

DI3448'COVER. TOP OF MONUMENT COVER FLUSH WITH GROUND.

 

*** retrieval complete.

Elapsed Time = 00:00:00

 

Cheers,

[Okie'sKid]

We had no trouble loading it, so here's the whole sheet for the reset:

 

mmmmmmmmmmm

 

I just tried for the third time on the NGS site using the PID fcn. Still got truncated DS.

 

Thanx for posting it so I could see it. Wonder why MDT didn't put in a call from the original.

 

Cheers,

John

[Wintertime]

Wonder why MDT didn't put in a call from the original.

By "a call from" do you mean "a reference to"? If so, then I don't think it would usually make sense to do that, because resets are usually made when there's an expectation that the original station won't be around much longer, right?

 

Patty

[Okie'sKid]

By "a call from" do you mean "a reference to"? If so, then I don't think it would usually make sense to do that, because resets are usually made when there's an expectation that the original station won't be around much longer, right?

 

Patty

 

Patty,

 

What you say makes a certain amount of sense. However, being a Virgo engineer, I would have put in a "reference to" the original brass maybe just because I could.

 

Cheers,

John

[andylphoto]

 

This all brings up what seems to me to be an obvious question: Why was a RESET set when the original brass and concrete are in good condition? The original metal sign is still attached to the original post. The Carsonite WPs are of the same vintage. Was it reset with the thot that the original might be lost to the road-widening project being planned in 2006? (which is done, BTW, with no damage to the original)

 

I think your idea here is right on. I've got a few that I logged nearby (4, I think) where resets were set in anticipation of an upcoming highway project. M-DOT was going through as a part of the project and blasting back rock outcroppings so they were further from the road. Of the four, only one of the originals was destroyed. (On the remaining ones, rather than blast, they placed guardrails.) Interestingly, in one case, they ran along the top of the outcropping and bored holes for blasting, then placed the guardrail, leaving the rock in place. So evidently, the original plan called for blasting.

 

Anyway, the point is...there are now four newly-set (2006 or 2007) stations that may or may not ever be added to the database. All were set prior to the start of the road work. Of those four, three of the original stations are intact. If the paperwork gets submitted to the NGS, you'd have the same situation.

[Z15]

This happens on occasion. The original is thought to be in danger of being lost so a RESET is placed and thru some fate it never comes to pass. Often with us, we were told to go and do it by our supervisors because they were told by the design or project engineer is would be destroyed. The people in the field doing the work all have supervisors who dictate what they can and cannot do on company time. Once my LS was reprimanded for sending out to reset some survey marks on a project, we were not authorized to be working on that project (the project engineer has all say over it).

 

I know of several that I reset back in '02 that the new people working there could care less if they ever get into the database. 0.1% of the MDOT care about survey marks and those that do have to take their work orders from those other 99.9% that consider them a nuisance.

 

Our motto was; "Why do it right when we can do it wrong".

Edited April 19, 2010 by Z15

[kayakbird]

I'm curious why a 2006 setting has only scaled L/L? With all those WP's I quess that +/- 100 feet doesn't matter- if it is in the correct second - but I would think that NGS would start requiring at least HH2 accuracy. MEL

[Okie'sKid]

Just down the road from P 233 and P 233 RESET (DI3448) is S 233 RESET (DI3444). When MDT set S 233 RESET, then recovered S 233 and made a note that, well, you can see below what they said:

 

 

ST0246 STATION RECOVERY (2006)

ST0246

ST0246'RECOVERY NOTE BY MONTANA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2006 (JOW)

ST0246'MARK IS IN GOOD CONDITION, HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION IS EXPECTED TO DESTROY

ST0246'MARK.

[Wintertime]

Klemmer, ltleelim, mjleelim, NJE, and I found a couple of resets near Tenaya Lake in Yosemite a couple of years ago that had also been installed due to planned construction along Tioga Road that would destroy existing marks.

 

Here, for example, are the Groundspeak pages for HR0149 and its replacement HR0148. Yes, for some reason R592 had not previously been entered into the NGS database and assigned a PID, so the NGS folks went ahead and filed it even though it was about to be destroyed! The same thing happened with HR0153 and HR0152 a little farther up the road.

 

Patty

[Okie'sKid]

Klemmer, ltleelim, mjleelim, NJE, and I found a couple of resets near Tenaya Lake in Yosemite a couple of years ago that had also been installed due to planned construction along Tioga Road that would destroy existing marks.

 

Here, for example, are the Groundspeak pages for HR0149 and its replacement HR0148. Yes, for some reason R592 had not previously been entered into the NGS database and assigned a PID, so the NGS folks went ahead and filed it even though it was about to be destroyed! The same thing happened with HR0153 and HR0152 a little farther up the road.

 

Patty

 

What'z a "fogline"?

 

A NAIL AND WASHER WAS DRIVEN INTO THE NORTHWEST FOGLINE TO WITNESS THE MARK

[kayakbird]

What'z a "fogline"?

 

A NAIL AND WASHER WAS DRIVEN INTO THE NORTHWEST FOGLINE TO WITNESS THE MARK

 

The shoulder stripe. MEL

 

FOGLINE