Found or not found?

[+frostbitex]

Located a cache today hidden in stone wall. Problem being it was in a picnic area and had chip van parked in full view of cache. I was standing 6 inches away from cache+could see it hidden in wall. Obviously i did`nt try to remove as would have been seen. Question is, can i register this as found?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Sign the log book/sheet?

No, then not a find!

 

Dry stone wall?

Not allowed to hide a cache there due to the damage that can be caused by cachers searching.

(Part of the 'local agreements' listed on GAGB)

[+MartyBartfast]

Located a cache today hidden in stone wall. Problem being it was in a picnic area and had chip van parked in full view of cache. I was standing 6 inches away from cache+could see it hidden in wall. Obviously i did`nt try to remove as would have been seen. Question is, can i register this as found?

 

Its really a question for the cache owner, if they're happy for you to log it as found then go ahead. I would probably say no, there are many caches which are in full view of lots of muggles (particularly urban caches), and part of the challenge is retrieving and replacing them without being detected.

[+Happy Humphrey]

Nope, you failed to retrieve the log book so no find. Even if the cache owner said it was allowable, I wouldn't log it - it's only a game so why compromise?

You can always try again when the area is quieter.

 

I guess that the wall is not a dry-stone one so it's probably OK.

[+*mouse*]

Not found.

 

I've walked away from plenty in simular circs. Recovering (or not recovering as the case my be) in front of muggles is part and parcel of the game and sometimes you have to walk away from a cache. Unless you get your name in the log book then it's unfound.

 

Some cache owners may be generous and allow you to log it if you ask, but personally if it were my cache I wouldn't let you - but then I'm a meany!!!

[team tisri]

Located a cache today hidden in stone wall. Problem being it was in a picnic area and had chip van parked in full view of cache. I was standing 6 inches away from cache+could see it hidden in wall. Obviously i did`nt try to remove as would have been seen. Question is, can i register this as found?

 

The way I'd see it is that it depends on what the cache is there for, and also to an extent how the owner feels and how you feel about logging something you didn't sign.

 

Some hiders will let you claim a find if you were thwarted by something other than not being in the area. If the hider has placed it with a view to making you retrieve it using a lot of stealth then you need to decide whether to take the chance or leave it and not claim it.

 

On a related note if a cache is rated 1/1 or similar and I could see it but not reach it (perhaps it had fallen from where it was meant to be) I've claimed it - a cache with such low ratings clearly isn't supposed to be a challenge to extract. If it was rated 4/4 then seeing it isn't enough - from the terrain rating it's clear you have to physically retrieve it for it to count.

 

Don't let a chip van put you off needlessly - when people are buying their chips they aren't paying much attention. You can get away with all sorts of moves if you cover it with a basic "normal" action, like leaning on the wall, perhaps scratching your ankle or whatever.

 

Ultimately this is a game and the idea is to enjoy it. Some folks have strongly held views on what is "right" and how you "should" play the game but ultimately it's largely down to you and what the cache owner will permit.

[+lefthanded99]

Personally I wouldn't claim it, however yesterday I DID claim one that was hidden in a pipe and couldn't be signed because someone had pushed it so far down the pipe that it had got wedged and was for all practical purposes irretrievable. So I guess we all have our own standards - do whatever works for you.

 

lefthanded99

[+Happy Humphrey]

On a related note if a cache is rated 1/1 or similar and I could see it but not reach it (perhaps it had fallen from where it was meant to be) I've claimed it - a cache with such low ratings clearly isn't supposed to be a challenge to extract. If it was rated 4/4 then seeing it isn't enough - from the terrain rating it's clear you have to physically retrieve it for it to count.

 

Ultimately this is a game and the idea is to enjoy it. Some folks have strongly held views on what is "right" and how you "should" play the game but ultimately it's largely down to you and what the cache owner will permit.

Of course, I don't mind what other people do if it doesn't affect me so don't take this as criticism or any attempt to dictate style. But in my view, if you feel the need to justify your non-retrieval of a cache in some way so you can claim a "find", you're treating the game too seriously. If you just want to enjoy a fairly light-hearted game it's no problem to record a DNF.

It might not be your fault that you didn't sign the logbook, but it wasn't an unambiguous "find" so why worry about it - just DNF!

 

The only grey area is when you have the cache plus contents in your hands but can't sign it (logbook missing or ruined, for instance, or no pen available). Again in my view, unless it's part of the challenge (e.g. locked box) then it's a find - even if you couldn't actually prove that you'd been there.

[+frostbitex]

Thanks for the replies. Have decided not to log find. It`s a 90min drive to cache so will have to let it go!!

Dont worry, it was`nt a dry stone wall so no probs there.

Thanks to all for advice.

[team tisri]

On a related note if a cache is rated 1/1 or similar and I could see it but not reach it (perhaps it had fallen from where it was meant to be) I've claimed it - a cache with such low ratings clearly isn't supposed to be a challenge to extract. If it was rated 4/4 then seeing it isn't enough - from the terrain rating it's clear you have to physically retrieve it for it to count.

 

Ultimately this is a game and the idea is to enjoy it. Some folks have strongly held views on what is "right" and how you "should" play the game but ultimately it's largely down to you and what the cache owner will permit.

Of course, I don't mind what other people do if it doesn't affect me so don't take this as criticism or any attempt to dictate style. But in my view, if you feel the need to justify your non-retrieval of a cache in some way so you can claim a "find", you're treating the game too seriously. If you just want to enjoy a fairly light-hearted game it's no problem to record a DNF.

It might not be your fault that you didn't sign the logbook, but it wasn't an unambiguous "find" so why worry about it - just DNF!

 

The only grey area is when you have the cache plus contents in your hands but can't sign it (logbook missing or ruined, for instance, or no pen available). Again in my view, unless it's part of the challenge (e.g. locked box) then it's a find - even if you couldn't actually prove that you'd been there.

 

I can see what you're saying but the way I see it is the other way around - the insistence that a DNF is logged because you didn't physically retrieve and sign the log is something I regard as taking it too seriously (unless, of course, the cache has been rated or described in a way that makes clear that the challenge is to physically retrieve it).

 

GC214CT is a classic example - you can see the cache from some distance away but unless you're 15 feet tall there's quite an intricate manoeuvre required to recover it. It's rated 4/4.5 so it's clear that sighting the container isn't enough - since I sighted the cache but didn't attempt the manoeuvre I wrote a note rather than log a Find or DNF.

 

If I have found the container but for reasons that weren't part of the cache setter's intentions am unable to physically retrieve it (e.g. it's pushed too far down a pipe to reach, my fingers are too thick to get around it to retrieve it, the box is rusted shut and I can't open it, there are so many muggles it's impossible to physically retrieve it etc) then I think whether it's logged as a find (on the basis of having found the container) or a DNF (on the basis of not having physically retrieved it) is simply a matter of personal preference rather than those arguing one way or the other taking things too seriously.

[team tisri]

On a related note if a cache is rated 1/1 or similar and I could see it but not reach it (perhaps it had fallen from where it was meant to be) I've claimed it - a cache with such low ratings clearly isn't supposed to be a challenge to extract. If it was rated 4/4 then seeing it isn't enough - from the terrain rating it's clear you have to physically retrieve it for it to count.

 

Ultimately this is a game and the idea is to enjoy it. Some folks have strongly held views on what is "right" and how you "should" play the game but ultimately it's largely down to you and what the cache owner will permit.

Of course, I don't mind what other people do if it doesn't affect me so don't take this as criticism or any attempt to dictate style. But in my view, if you feel the need to justify your non-retrieval of a cache in some way so you can claim a "find", you're treating the game too seriously. If you just want to enjoy a fairly light-hearted game it's no problem to record a DNF.

It might not be your fault that you didn't sign the logbook, but it wasn't an unambiguous "find" so why worry about it - just DNF!

 

The only grey area is when you have the cache plus contents in your hands but can't sign it (logbook missing or ruined, for instance, or no pen available). Again in my view, unless it's part of the challenge (e.g. locked box) then it's a find - even if you couldn't actually prove that you'd been there.

 

I can see what you're saying but the way I see it is the other way around - the insistence that a DNF is logged because you didn't physically retrieve and sign the log is something I regard as taking it too seriously (unless, of course, the cache has been rated or described in a way that makes clear that the challenge is to physically retrieve it).

 

GC214CT is a classic example - you can see the cache from some distance away but unless you're 15 feet tall there's quite an intricate manoeuvre required to recover it. It's rated 4/4.5 so it's clear that sighting the container isn't enough - since I sighted the cache but didn't attempt the manoeuvre I wrote a note rather than log a Find or DNF.

 

If I have found the container but for reasons that weren't part of the cache setter's intentions am unable to physically retrieve it (e.g. it's pushed too far down a pipe to reach, my fingers are too thick to get around it to retrieve it, the box is rusted shut and I can't open it, there are so many muggles it's impossible to physically retrieve it etc) then I think whether it's logged as a find (on the basis of having found the container) or a DNF (on the basis of not having physically retrieved it) is simply a matter of personal preference rather than those arguing one way or the other taking things too seriously.

[+Happy Humphrey]

...If I have found the container but for reasons that weren't part of the cache setter's intentions am unable to physically retrieve it (e.g. it's pushed too far down a pipe to reach, my fingers are too thick to get around it to retrieve it, the box is rusted shut and I can't open it, there are so many muggles it's impossible to physically retrieve it etc) then I think whether it's logged as a find (on the basis of having found the container) or a DNF (on the basis of not having physically retrieved it) is simply a matter of personal preference rather than those arguing one way or the other taking things too seriously.

Yes, I agree that it's personal preference.

But if it was my cache and I saw your log saying you saw the cache but never touched it (even if the retrieval wasn't meant to be a challenge), I'd think that you were taking things way too seriously if you logged a "find".

 

I've failed on several because of excessive muggles, or occasionally due to the cache being visible but hard to retrieve. It's as easy to log a DNF as a find, and the accepted practice is that you count a find as having the log book in your possession (or what's left of the cache, if it's in a poor state). So it's very simple; no log book, no find. For me, anyway. As it's only a game, it's no big deal if you don't get a smiley. Relax, DNF, and move on to the next.

It's not as if our find count is important, so why add a doubtful one to it? But if that's how you like to do it it's fine by me.

[+MartyBartfast]

I've had one or 2 where I couldn't retrieve because of muggles, I didn't log as DNF ('cos I did find them), but I didn't log a find as I hadn't had them in my grasp, so I just wrote a note explaining that I almost found them.

 

I've also had some which I had in my hands but couldn't sign (soggy log, and full nano log rolls), on those I did log finds.