Reporting "Destroyed" Status to NGS

[+pgrig]

I know there has been a good deal of past discussion here concerning Destroyed reports to NGS.

 

I'm not sure how I learned to make these reports, but I think over time I got confused by the instructions on the NGS Recovery Report page and started doing it wrong. In any case, I recently sent an email to Deb Brown to get unconfused, and she replied with the following.

If you conclude that a mark has been Destroyed, do not file a Recovery Report for it in the NGS database. Simply send an email to Deb.Brown at NOAA.gov. In the email, give her an explanation of the facts you used to come to your Destroyed conclusion, and attach a photo (or a couple of photos) of the setting and/or the area. She will then decide if the Destroyed category is appropriate and make the corresponding entries in the database herself.

I wanted to add, however, that if a mark is accepted by Deb as Destroyed, you should be aware that it "disappears" from the NGS database, with no description as to why. I believe that NGS-Destroyed stations can still be retrieved from the database by setting options on an NGS query, but for the casual benchmark hunter, at least, the station ceases to exist. And this includes the Description and prior recovery history for that station.

 

(Someone else who is more experienced than I am with calling older stations up out of the database can describe that much better than I can.)

 

As importantly, as far as I am concerned, is that an NGS Destroyed finding wipes the graphical evidence of a Destroyed station out of Scaredy Cat's Benchmark Viewer (which is my most essential tool for locating stations and planning my outings).

 

If you are working with historical stations (as I am currently with WW2-era coastal artillery and fire control structures and assets), the map pins in the Benchmark Viewer are often the only way you have of locating the historical position of an old asset. For example, the disk on top of Battery A of coast artillery emplacement X may clearly be Destroyed, but its location is the only available placeholder for the location of the asset it once identified (e.g., Battery A), which asset may still survive. So I now am much more loathe to "wipe out" the current evidence of an old station by suggesting an NGS "Destroyed" status for it. Instead, I often file an NGS report of Not Found that describes what I found and concludes the station has been "lost." A useful word, "lost."

 

By the way, Deb Brown says, "Tell the folks at Geocaching I said Hi and thanks for the work!"

[AZcachemeister]

Certainly there must be a waymark category that 'Battery A' will fit into?

[+PFF]

I know there has been a good deal of past discussion here concerning Destroyed reports to NGS.

 

If a mark is accepted by Deb as Destroyed, you should be aware that it "disappears" from the NGS database, with no description as to why.

 

If you are working with historical stations (as I am currently with WW2-era coastal artillery and fire control structures and assets), the map pins in the Benchmark Viewer are often the only way you have of locating the historical position of an old asset. So I now am much more loathe to "wipe out" the current evidence of an old station by suggesting an NGS "Destroyed" status for it. Instead, I often file an NGS report of Not Found that describes what I found and concludes the station has been "lost."

[Original post snipped slightly for brevity. Emphasis added.]

I agree. Leave it in the database, especially if the disk is near a historic object (or another survey marker--such as a meridian station, or a state-line granite pillar from 1898), or if it is a significant reference point in the descriptions of other stations.

 

-PFF-

Edited January 14, 2010 by PFF

[Bill93]

I agree it is good to have a log entry of the evidence for destruction, and have always wondered why NGS didn't routinely enter that.

 

Destroyed stations don't disappear from the data base; they are just harder to get to. They can still be pulled up by PID by checking "include destroyed marks". Several other searches exclude them by default but you can select data type "only destroyed marks".

 

I haven't used DSWORLD much, but I recall seeing destroyed stations show up on it.

[+PFF]

. They can still be pulled up by PID by checking "include destroyed marks". Several other searches exclude them by default but you can select data type "only destroyed marks".

 

Hi, Bill,

 

I'm thinking that I would not know to try pulling destroyed marks, if I did not know they once existed. The WW-2 work by pgrig is a great example of the value of having info on destroyed marks, and my search for 100-year-old survey markers is very similar. But unless someone knew (or suspected) that there might be a relevant data sheet, important clues would go undetected.

 

I sometimes see a list of destroyed stations at the bottom of searches. However, without the data sheet in front of me, I don't know if they might possibly be useful. And it's labor-intensive to get the data sheet--with little chance of a payoff. Any work-around to this dilemma?

 

-Paul-

[kayakbird]

I have yet to make a destroyed report, but it doesn't take one for DATASHEET to evaporate from the normal retrieval method. Researching for next summers MORC hunt I had seen that one of my POOR recoveries of a COE station had led to its destruction. When this thread got started I looked at the 74 recoveries that I have listed as POOR. Sixteen of these are now Destroyed, three of them on the Marine Corps Birthday when Okie'sKid and I made a quick foray into west-central Colorado.

 

I would prefer that eveyrthing stays in the system. I think that most of us have gotten clues from a NOT FOUND (likely gone) DS that has helped on another recovery.

 

I had a very satisfying, semi-technical, search for this one. The calls worked great after I found the correct stump of a telegraph post.

SS0583

 

However, having this one

SQ0583

declared DESTROYED would seem to give us free rein to make a dig for the rest of this one:

SQ0609

 

Win Some Lose Some

 

kayakbird

[+Harry Dolphin]

I have actually had a few benchmarks labelled as 'destroyed'. Before and after photos of the building in which they were set usually works. They can still be brought up by checking 'include destroyed'. I don't see what the problem is here.