Getting Permission for a cache

[+kraushad]

I haven't placed a cache yet, but have been finding them for a couple of years now.

 

This question is not specific to anything I want to do right now, but may help me if/when I decide to place my first cache, which I would really like to do soon.

 

When you approach someone about getting permission to place a cache, how exactly do you phrase the proposal, especially if the person or entity has no clue what geocaching is?

 

How do you word things to overcome a potentially skeptical and/or distrusting land owner?

 

Do you try to email, phone or speak in person?

 

And out of curiousity - What have you experienced in terms of odds of approval? (Permission granted versus denied in your trials) Are some people/organizations more likely to approve or deny caches?

 

What approaches seem to work the best?

 

Does anyone have a stock "letter" that could serve as an exemplar for this process?

 

Thanks.

[GOF and Bacall]

Geocacher U has a great Brochure. Whenever possible talk to someone face to face. It is harder for people to say no to someone when they are looking them in the eye. Keep in mind though that every situation is different.

 

For many of the more popular locations check with cachers who have already been there. Who did they talk to? What policies did they come up against? What info did they have to provide?

[Skippermark]

If it's a land trust where permission is needed, I'd use the phone. I'd tell them you enjoy hiking/visiting the area and think it's a place others would like to experience and tell them you think it would be a great spot for a geocache...and then not say anything more.

 

Their response will tell if they've heard of caching. If they have, they may immediately tell you their policy regarding caches on their property. If they haven't heard of it, you can explain it to them (email them the brochure at GU perhaps). Things could go anywhere from there, but you could always offer to take them out to a couple caches to see what it's about.

 

There's a big land trust here in CT where a cacher wanted to hide caches. This was a few years ago, and they didn't know about caching. He had to go before the board of directors a couple times and talk about it. The board loved the idea and gave him permission to place caches in any of their properties, turning them into some of the most popular caching areas at the time.

 

It was a win-win. The land trust got a lot more exposure for their properties (most land trusts want people to visit their lands), and cachers got a great place to cache.

[+kraushad]

I have to admit, I am not sure if i know what a land trust property is. Can you give me an example?

 

Is that like a state or county park? or something different?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I have to admit, I am not sure if i know what a land trust property is. Can you give me an example?

 

Is that like a state or county park? or something different?

 

Wikipedia has a pretty good description. Essentially, a land trust is where one party donates land to be managed by a trustee, typically for conservancy purposes.

 

In my area there is a "Finger Lakes Land Trust" which manages quite a few properties and geocaches are not permitted on any of the properties that they manage.

[+kraushad]

NY - I camped in Canandaigua KOA last summer - what a beautiful area up there in the finger lakes region. I thoroguhly enjoyed our trip. Very "prettiful" up there.

 

I am surprised at the lack of responses to the original question though. I figured more people might have suggestions or expereiences to share.

 

I really wonder how many people don't bother getting permission.... and how many people get turned down on requests.

[+bittsen]

NY - I camped in Canandaigua KOA last summer - what a beautiful area up there in the finger lakes region. I thoroguhly enjoyed our trip. Very "prettiful" up there.

 

I am surprised at the lack of responses to the original question though. I figured more people might have suggestions or expereiences to share.

 

I really wonder how many people don't bother getting permission.... and how many people get turned down on requests.

 

The reality is that, more than likely, MOST people don't bother to get permission.

[+Rockin Roddy]

NY - I camped in Canandaigua KOA last summer - what a beautiful area up there in the finger lakes region. I thoroguhly enjoyed our trip. Very "prettiful" up there.

 

I am surprised at the lack of responses to the original question though. I figured more people might have suggestions or expereiences to share.

 

I really wonder how many people don't bother getting permission.... and how many people get turned down on requests.

 

The reality is that, more than likely, MOST people don't bother to get permission.

 

Some places really don't need permission...many local parks for instance. However, private land is a place I would always get permission...and any land where there's a policy in place. I know most state parks need permission as do other parks of this nature!!

 

The best thing to do is when in doubt ASK!! It can't hurt anymore than a no, can it?

Edited November 7, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+bittsen]

Some places really don't need permission...many local parks for instance. However, private land is a place I would always get permission...and any land where there's a policy in place. I know most state parks need permission as do other parks of this nature!!

 

The best thing to do is when in doubt ASK!! It can't hurt anymore than a no, can it?

 

I think some people are ingrained with the lessons of childhood.

Don't ask mom for a cookie. She might say no.

[+The Leprechauns]

I have to admit, I am not sure if i know what a land trust property is. Can you give me an example?

 

Is that like a state or county park? or something different?

To your north in Pennsylvania, the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy is the State's largest private land trust. Their most famous holding is "Fallingwater," the Frank Lloyd Wright home and its grounds. They are geocaching-friendly, following the same policy as the State Parks and State Forests.

 

If a land manager has a permit process, it's actually easier to get permission because you don't face the fear of hearing back, "we didn't know about geocaching, but now that we do, we don't like it and won't allow it on our properties."

 

If there is no published geocaching policy, I've found that an in-person visit works best. The only exception to that is if the land manager has an online permit process (example: county parks in Cincinnati) or a mail-in process.

[+The VanDucks]

For our first few hides, we wanted to hide caches in some of the small neighborhood parks in our town in Virginia. I knew that some of the parks were owned by the town itself, and some were owned/administered by both the town and the county.

 

I called the town parks and recreation department and asked about geocache policies; they had none and didn't know about geocaching. I made an appointment with the deputy director and went to talk to her, bringing along some printed material from the geocaching.com website and also some examples of cache containers. I described the caches I had in mind - where they would be, and what they would look like, and also gave her a printed list with the same information. She was polite, but busy, and seemed mildly interested; she said she would have to think about it.

 

I followed through with a letter the next day, thanking her and asking her to contact me if she had any more questions. Two or three weeks went by, and then I got a letter saying that the department needed more specific information on the location of one of my proposed caches. I provided that information, and in another two weeks I got a letter saying I could go ahead with the caches.

 

For the two parks that were jointly owned with the county, I also applied for permission from the county; they actually had a geocache review board in effect and their approval was much easier. (Unfortunately, a year or two later the county policies were changed and now it is much harder to get permssion to place in the county parks.)

 

Inside each of the containers, I put a small laminated card saying that the cache was placed with permission from the park authority. All the caches are still in place, are visited often, and I've never gotten any complaint calls from the town or county about them. I do check on them from time to time but have not seen any problems or big geotrails around them( but they are all placed fairly close to trails or in natural areas near mown grass.)

 

I also placed a fairly elaborate multicache in another larger park in the county; for that one, I was told to get permission from the park manager. I basically followed the same procedure; calling for an appointment, chatting with the staff and showing samples, providing printed explanations, etc. That approval also took a few weeks, but it did go through.

 

As you can see, getting permission from government officials takes persistence and patience; they have other things to think about besides your request, so being very, very polite and helpful is really necessary!

 

Sadly enough, when I asked for permission from a real estate company selling townhouses to place a cache on a part of their property that was actually designed as a public garden area with benches and a fountain, right next to the street across from the public library, I was told very rudely "No, our residents don't want strangers walking over this private property, and our insurance won't allow you to put anything here!"

 

I gave up on that cache!

[+abcdmCachers]

Does anyone have a stock "letter" that could serve as an exemplar for this process?

 

Thanks.

I recently placed a cache on what I thought was public property, but it's owned by a division of the county so the cache reviewer won't approvie it until I receive permission from the land owner. All I have to go on is information from the county online GIS system which gives me the owner's name (County Institutions) and an address. I tried finding an appropriate phone number or email address, but didn't have much luck so I decided to send a letter. Strange feeling, writing a letter. I just sent it on Thursday so we'll see what happens.

 

Since you asked, here's the text of my letter. It's not great, but maybe it can serve as a starting point for you or someone else. Writing isn't really my thing (I tend to be too verbose and add a lot of parenthetical comments), so if people want to suggest improvements that would be great. If there are other sample letters out there, I'd also like to know for future reference.

 

Dear [Land Manager],

 

I have a somewhat unusual request and I’m not sure exactly who I should contact, so I hope whoever reads this will route it to the appropriate person.

 

I would like to place a geocache near [location] (geocaching is a recreational activity which I explain below if you are not familiar with it). In order to do this, I need to get permission from the land owner. According to public records, the land is owned by [land owner] so I am writing to you hoping that someone in your office would be willing to grant permission for me to place the geocache. I would be placing it near a paved path that is already open to the public, so in my opinion this should not be a big deal. Many hikers, dog walkers, and joggers use the trail daily. Placing a geocache there would not significantly increase the pedestrian traffic. Given the unique history and attributes of the [location] ([short description of history and/or unique attributes), this is a great place for a geocache.

 

Here’s a brief background about geocaching:

Geocaching is a world-wide family activity where you use a handheld GPS to hunt for hidden containers, or “caches” (waterproof containers such as Tupperware) that contain trinkets and a logbook. There are close to 1 million geocaches worldwide and close to [number] in the [city] area. Cache-seekers search for geocaches using the coordinates that are posted on the geocaching website (www.geocaching.com). Each geocache has a logbook for people to sign when they find it. Also, many geocaches contain trinkets for trading, which is especially fun for the kids. Typically, geocaches are placed in areas that hold some interest such as places with natural beauty, places with historical significance, good hiking trails, etc. Any geocacher with an account at geocaching.com can place a new geocache. I encourage you to visit the geocaching website if you would like to learn more about this activity.

 

Each geocache must be approved by reviewers at geocaching.com. They won’t allow a new cache unless it’s on public property such as a park (and even then you should get permission), or if you receive permission from the land owner. According to the [city/county] online GIS system, the land is owned by [info from GIS data]. Is there someone there who could grant permission? My preferred mode of communication is via email which I give below, but I also list my cell phone if you would like to talk. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need more information. I can give you the exact location of where I would like to place the geocache if you need that.

 

Thanks for considering this and opening up a unique bit of [city] history to geocachers.

[+kraushad]

Thanks abcdm, that is a great start - gives me an idea of what to include.

[glorkar]

I recently had a placement denied by the land owner. I too found the info from the county GIS and had to send a letter:

 

Dear [land owner],

 

My name is [glorkar] and I have a request to make of you. I would like to place a Geocache on a piece of property that is owned by you in Berlin. To be more clear, I am unsure if the location of my Cache is on Cemetery Property or yours. I decided to ask for you permission just in case it is on the land you own. The maps I have researched place it near the property line and I cannot be certain which side it falls on.

 

A little bit about Geocaching from Geocaching.com:

 

“Geocaching is a high-tech treasure hunting game played throughout the world by adventure seekers equipped with GPS devices. The basic idea is to locate hidden containers, called geocaches, outdoors and then share your experiences online. Geocaching is enjoyed by people from all age groups, with a strong sense of community and support for the environment.”

 

Access to the location is gained through the cemetery. It is just barely in the brush off of one of the roads by the water tower, about 10 feet in from a “no parking” sign. The exact coordinates are N43° XX.XXX W088° XX.XXX. I have enclosed a map with the location indicated with a red “X.” If you allow the placement, I will be sure to advise seekers to go only as far as the cache site and not to go any further onto the property.

 

I am originally from Berlin and I have always loved the nature this area provides. It is peaceful and quiet. It is my hope that people seeking this cache will take time to explore the various graves and pay their respects to all that have gone before them.

 

Please contact me with a response, whether it be positive or negative. Thank you for your time.

 

[glorkar]

 

The land owner turned me down due to repeat problems with trespassers in that general area. I graciously accepted their refusal and moved on to location B with is clearly on city land. I felt the first location was perfect, but the reasons the land owner gave made me sure it was not worth it to pursue the matter further.