Cache placement and getting permission

[+kimgh]

I'm working up to placing my first cache, and I have a great place. But it's in the parking lot of a company building neighboring the one I work in,

 

So here's the thing: is it considered gauche to place a lamp skirt cache near a commercial building without getting permission? If there is no clear way to contact anyone able to give permission, is it just better to find a different location?

 

Put another way: have the planters of all the lamp skirt caches I've found gotten permission for the placement?

[+StarBrand]

If it is public property you should find out what the local rules and guidelines are and then follow them closely.

 

If you own it. No problems.

 

If it is privately owned - always get permission.

 

Having said that - I have to believe that many LPCs didn't have the permission of anybody at the business. Just my gut feeling.....

[jholly]

If it is public property you should find out what the local rules and guidelines are and then follow them closely.

 

If you own it. No problems.

 

If it is privately owned - always get permission.

 

Having said that - I have to believe that many LPCs didn't have the permission of anybody at the business. Just my gut feeling.....

 

I will add to the above if it is a industrial park type company building I think I would look elsewhere. Those officious folks that drive around in white trucks with the flashing yellow lights on top might make some ones day a little unpleasant.

 

Jim

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Also keep in mind that (as signs at least by me are warning more and more) that many shopping centers have cameras in their parking lots that could cause similar issues to industrial parks.

[+webscouter.]

I'm working up to placing my first cache, and I have a great place. But it's in the parking lot of a company building neighboring the one I work in,

 

So here's the thing: is it considered gauche to place a lamp skirt cache near a commercial building without getting permission? If there is no clear way to contact anyone able to give permission, is it just better to find a different location?

 

Put another way: have the planters of all the lamp skirt caches I've found gotten permission for the placement?

 

Certainly in San Jose you can find someplace more interesting than a company parking lot? Don't you have any historical sites, hidden parks, works of art you can show off?

[jholly]

I'm working up to placing my first cache, and I have a great place. But it's in the parking lot of a company building neighboring the one I work in,

 

So here's the thing: is it considered gauche to place a lamp skirt cache near a commercial building without getting permission? If there is no clear way to contact anyone able to give permission, is it just better to find a different location?

 

Put another way: have the planters of all the lamp skirt caches I've found gotten permission for the placement?

 

Certainly in San Jose you can find someplace more interesting than a company parking lot? Don't you have any historical sites, hidden parks, works of art you can show off?

 

JD Grant Park and Alum Rock Park are just a couple that come to mind. Probably could squeeze one or two more in Penitencia Creek or along the Guadalupe River. Much better than a LPC.

 

Jim

[+webscouter.]

After reading my last post I realize that I might have thrown some water on the OP's fire.

 

Please don't lose your desire or enthusiasm to place a cache. I was just trying to encourage you to make your first cache placement one that you will be proud of several years down the road.

 

My first cache isn't a hard hike, not a big container, and certainly doesn't win any awards for being creative. It is a keyholder stuck to a sign. However it is still one of my favorite hides because it is placed near the only national monument to Eagle Scouts. Because the location is special to me I am still proud of that hide. If I had placed a LPC I am pretty sure it would be archived once I realized that it is far better to take someone special instead of just giving them a smiley that they won't remember.

[+briansnat]

I'm working up to placing my first cache, and I have a great place. But it's in the parking lot of a company building neighboring the one I work in,

 

Is that really a great place? Is there something about the parking lot that makes it a special place that you would like to bring people to?

 

Put another way: have the planters of all the lamp skirt caches I've found gotten permission for the placement?

 

I'm sure most don't but that doesn't make it right.

 

Before you place a cache think of the reason you are bringing people there. If it's just for the cache then perhaps you should choose a different place. In any instance, if it is not public property you should ask permission.

[+kimgh]

 

Certainly in San Jose you can find someplace more interesting than a company parking lot? Don't you have any historical sites, hidden parks, works of art you can show off?

 

Well, there are different kinds of historical sites, and the one I have in mind might be considered such; it's a building of a (to remain nameless) well-known tech company in the area that is (probably) about to vanish. But perhaps I can pick a different one of that company's buildings, and I (upon reflection) just happen to know the current director of worldwide security for that company, so perhaps getting permission would not be the problem I first thought it would be...

 

Thanks for all the thoughts, though! There are a LOT of caches I've sought for which it's hard to believe that permission was sought or granted. For example: today I went after one that appears to be on the grounds of a middle school. Apparently the yard doubles as a park during off-school hours. Since it was school hours when I went, I did not attempt to enter the school grounds. But I wonder what would have happened if I went to the school office to sign in for the purpose of seeking the cache in the play yard? "Cache, what cache?" Seems it could get ugly, and I didn't have the chutzpah (let along the time) to go that route.

[+briansnat]

 

Certainly in San Jose you can find someplace more interesting than a company parking lot? Don't you have any historical sites, hidden parks, works of art you can show off?

 

Well, there are different kinds of historical sites, and the one I have in mind might be considered such; it's a building of a (to remain nameless) well-known tech company in the area that is (probably) about to vanish. But perhaps I can pick a different one of that company's buildings, and I (upon reflection) just happen to know the current director of worldwide security for that company, so perhaps getting permission would not be the problem I first thought it would be...

 

Thanks for all the thoughts, though! There are a LOT of caches I've sought for which it's hard to believe that permission was sought or granted. For example: today I went after one that appears to be on the grounds of a middle school. Apparently the yard doubles as a park during off-school hours. Since it was school hours when I went, I did not attempt to enter the school grounds. But I wonder what would have happened if I went to the school office to sign in for the purpose of seeking the cache in the play yard? "Cache, what cache?" Seems it could get ugly, and I didn't have the chutzpah (let along the time) to go that route.

 

Caches on or near school grounds are absolutely off limits with out express permission from the administration. Reviewers are very careful about that. Sometimes it's not evident that it's a school to the reviewer and one may slip through, but more often the ones you see at schools are there with permission. Usually it's some sort of class project.

[+PirateKatz]

 

Thanks for all the thoughts, though! There are a LOT of caches I've sought for which it's hard to believe that permission was sought or granted.

 

 

I've gotten that exact same impression.

 

I also have the feeling that many caches placed on public property are done so without any kind of permission. I believe many think that because a local government doesn't have a specific policy towards geocaching, that it's basically a green light to place a cache where ever you want on public land, without consulting or notifying whoever manages the property.

[+StarBrand]

...

I also have the feeling that many caches placed on public property are done so without any kind of permission. I believe many think that because a local government doesn't have a specific policy towards geocaching, that it's basically a green light to place a cache where ever you want on public land, without consulting or notifying whoever manages the property.

I know that many of us place caches on public property that allows casual recreational use. As Geocaching IS a casual recreational activity. Where there are rules and guidelines on public lands - follow them closely. I know the local parks department has specifically asked to NOT be contacted by Geocachers placing a cache. There exists no formal or written policies. But they see it for what it is - a harmless activity that brings folks out to the parks. So I know 100% for certain that it is not always necessary to contact anybody before hiding a Geocache. Got to know your area.

[+PirateKatz]

I know that many of us place caches on public property that allows casual recreational use. As Geocaching IS a casual recreational activity. Where there are rules and guidelines on public lands - follow them closely. I know the local parks department has specifically asked to NOT be contacted by Geocachers placing a cache. There exists no formal or written policies. But they see it for what it is - a harmless activity that brings folks out to the parks. So I know 100% for certain that it is not always necessary to contact anybody before hiding a Geocache. Got to know your area.

 

I'm getting ready to place a cache and the permission aspect is getting very confusing. There is a neighborhood park located a few blocks from my house that is run by our park board. I started contacting owner's of existing caches (different parks but same park board) to ask who they spoke to regarding permission, the reply seems to be: "it's public property, you don't need permission" or "there are already caches there, don't worry about it".

 

This just doesn't seem right to me, especially when existing caches aren't supposed to mean any kind of precedent for future ones. I have spoken with two park board commissioners and they aren't aware of any specific policies and really had no understanding of what geocaching is. They've both recommended that I talk to the park board director.

 

I have a strong feeling that nobody has ever spoken with him to receive permission. I am very concerned that if I do pursue placing this cache, there is a slight chance that I am putting 15 or 20 existing caches at risk. My plan is to talk to the director, only making reference to the specific cache and not mentioning any of the existing ones unless pressed.

[+StarBrand]

I know that many of us place caches on public property that allows casual recreational use. As Geocaching IS a casual recreational activity. Where there are rules and guidelines on public lands - follow them closely. I know the local parks department has specifically asked to NOT be contacted by Geocachers placing a cache. There exists no formal or written policies. But they see it for what it is - a harmless activity that brings folks out to the parks. So I know 100% for certain that it is not always necessary to contact anybody before hiding a Geocache. Got to know your area.

 

I'm getting ready to place a cache and the permission aspect is getting very confusing. There is a neighborhood park located a few blocks from my house that is run by our park board. I started contacting owner's of existing caches (different parks but same park board) to ask who they spoke to regarding permission, the reply seems to be: "it's public property, you don't need permission" or "there are already caches there, don't worry about it".

 

This just doesn't seem right to me, especially when existing caches aren't supposed to mean any kind of precedent for future ones. I have spoken with two park board commissioners and they aren't aware of any specific policies and really had no understanding of what geocaching is. They've both recommended that I talk to the park board director.

 

I have a strong feeling that nobody has ever spoken with him to receive permission. I am very concerned that if I do pursue placing this cache, there is a slight chance that I am putting 15 or 20 existing caches at risk. My plan is to talk to the director, only making reference to the specific cache and not mentioning any of the existing ones unless pressed.

 

I think you are seeing at least part of the point. Those caches are there and in some cases I am sure they have been there for many years. They have caused so very little issue and concern that the park system is not even aware of them or the activity. In much the same way folks go out and walk thier dogs, have picnics, Jog, fish, take naps, play football and yes - even throw around frisbees. All casual recreational use of the park lands.

Speak to them and get explicit permission if you must but keep in mind what may happen as a consequence of that action. Be prepared to answer lots of questions. Here is a brochre that some have used: http://www.gpsmaze.com/uploads/files/GEOCACH_F2.pdf

[+Renegade Knight]

... If there is no clear way to contact anyone able to give permission, is it just better to find a different location?

 

Put another way: have the planters of all the lamp skirt caches I've found gotten permission for the placement?

 

That's two different question. The first is how do you get permission yourself. The second is about if everyone else got permission (which has as many answers as there are everone elses)

 

To answer the first. If the location allows casual recreational use then caching is allowed by default since it's a casual recreational use. In other words it meets the frisbee test. Most cachers follow this rule in the real world.

 

If you really want to get permission for your lamp post hide at a formal level you have some legwork. If the building is rented generally the company renting it can give permission. If that's your own company, ask your boss or the office manager or whoever wears the pants (so to speak) in the office.

[+briansnat]

I know that many of us place caches on public property that allows casual recreational use. As Geocaching IS a casual recreational activity. Where there are rules and guidelines on public lands - follow them closely. I know the local parks department has specifically asked to NOT be contacted by Geocachers placing a cache. There exists no formal or written policies. But they see it for what it is - a harmless activity that brings folks out to the parks. So I know 100% for certain that it is not always necessary to contact anybody before hiding a Geocache. Got to know your area.

 

I'm getting ready to place a cache and the permission aspect is getting very confusing. There is a neighborhood park located a few blocks from my house that is run by our park board. I started contacting owner's of existing caches (different parks but same park board) to ask who they spoke to regarding permission, the reply seems to be: "it's public property, you don't need permission" or "there are already caches there, don't worry about it".

 

This just doesn't seem right to me, especially when existing caches aren't supposed to mean any kind of precedent for future ones. I have spoken with two park board commissioners and they aren't aware of any specific policies and really had no understanding of what geocaching is. They've both recommended that I talk to the park board director.

 

I have a strong feeling that nobody has ever spoken with him to receive permission. I am very concerned that if I do pursue placing this cache, there is a slight chance that I am putting 15 or 20 existing caches at risk. My plan is to talk to the director, only making reference to the specific cache and not mentioning any of the existing ones unless pressed.

 

As Starbrand mentioned, geocaching is a casual recreational activity, so those public lands where there is no requirement for permission or permits, most geocachers will assume that geocaching is fine. People don't

ask for permission to engage in other casual recreational activities so many, if not most geocachers don't see obtaining permission as necessary to engage in thier recreational activity.

 

I recall one geocacher who went to a town for permission to place a cache. The parks diector passed him off to the mayor who passed him off to the council, who passed him to the town attorney. After several months of waiting he got his answer. He could hide his cache, but he would need a million dollar liability policy and the cache could only be there for one day and had to be removed.

 

While he was waiting for the approval other people hid caches in the same park and they were happily being found by other geocachers. They probably remain there to this day without causing a problem.

[+flask]

bear in mind that sometimes land managers (parks and greenspaces) don't mind hosting a cache but REALLY don't want to have to give official permission or even be asked about it.

 

in my area there was one notable land manager who carefully told the inquiring cacher "if i have to grant permission, the answer will be no." he did this with a wink and a nod, to indicate that he didn't think permission was going to be necessary.

 

it's up to the hider to ascertain whether explicit permission is necessary.

[+niraD]

bear in mind that sometimes land managers (parks and greenspaces) don't mind hosting a cache but REALLY don't want to have to give official permission or even be asked about it.

The answer I got from my local parks department was that geocaches could be left in the parks, but that parks personnel (including landscaping crews) would not be responsible for anything that happened to them.

[+kimgh]

bear in mind that sometimes land managers (parks and greenspaces) don't mind hosting a cache but REALLY don't want to have to give official permission or even be asked about it.

The answer I got from my local parks department was that geocaches could be left in the parks, but that parks personnel (including landscaping crews) would not be responsible for anything that happened to them.

 

I checked the website for the county park system (Santa Clara County), and they have a pretty well-thought-out policy for geocaching. Basically, they allow and even encourage it, and don't particularly want to be contacted for permission (which is assumed) but want to be able to contact the owner of a cache if there are problems with it.

 

The City park system website does not mention geocaching. The state system I haven't checked yet (but given it's CA, I expect it'll be allowed but taxed (only partly a smilie here; many state parks may end up being closed altogether to "balance the (unbalanceable) budget").

[sdarken]

The City park system website does not mention geocaching. The state system I haven't checked yet (but given it's CA, I expect it'll be allowed.

 

Caches are allowed in most/many state parks in California. The rules were recently updated. Caches should be next to trails and not close to streams/waterways. Here's a link to the general info page:

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=25665

 

Here's a list of state parks that do allow geocaches:

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=25745

Edited September 18, 2009 by sdarken

[+Mr&MrsQuixote]

From what I've read it seems like the only true place that permission is needed would be in a case that the land was private property such as an individual residence, or a place of business, or where nature preservation may be an issue (state parks and nature preserves).

 

Public land, public parks, etc... aren't they all paid for by our tax money? Granted, so are state parks, but they are there for the purpose of preservation more than recreation.