Getting Permission in Bergen County, NJ

[+wjgrun]

Does anyone have an official answer regarding geocache placement permission from the towns of Mahwah, Ramsey, and Bergen County?

 

I emailed the Mahwah Parks director about permission for a geocache in a town park (Continental Soldiers, Lake Henry - near Ramapo) a week ago, who said she would forward my request to the Town Administrator (still waiting for a response). This morning I called the Bergen County Parks Department - I believe I spoke to the assistant to the Director, who forwarded me to some other county administrator's voicemail (left a message).

 

I would like to have explicit permission or learn of the town & county geocaching policies (if they exist) before placing a cache. I was also considering a 'Green Acres' section of land in Ramsey, NJ - though the only access is driving into and parking in a residential neighborhood.

 

Am I crazy to expect to get explicit permission for these cache placements? I am only considering wooded areas of public land (a Mahwah owned town park, green acres section in Ramsey, and several Bergen County parks - Campgaw, Ramapo, Saddle River, etc). I know there are caches in the Bergen County parks and in the Mahwah park.

 

Thank you for any information you can provide,

 

Bill

[+MountainRacer]

I own three caches up that way: GC12C28 in a Mahwah town park, GC19M6B on the Ramapo College campus, and GC1B3EW in the Ramapo Valley County Reservation. None of those caches were hidden with the knowledge of the land managers. I know that it's always best to get permission, and that spreading the word is a good thing, but deep down at the core of my personal cache-hiding philosophy, I don't want to be told "no" by some under-informed office dweller who makes a snap judgement. Rich as the area is in caches and cachers, I've only ever seen one or two GZs that were clearly damaged by overeager seekers, so I made the honest judgement that one responsibly placed cache will not hurt the area. If you're a smart cache hider, you can put several dozen new caches in the areas you're talking about -- it's quite possible, actually -- without being noticed by muggles at all. It's up to you.

[+briansnat]

Bergen County knows about geocaching and seems to have no problem with it. I spoke with the parks director several years ago and he was interested in getting geocaches into the county parks. I told him they were already there. He was somewhat surprised, but I never heard from him again.

 

The county knows about the geocaches, does nothing to discourage them and has developed no policy so I'd say you already have tacit permission.

 

Actually most Bergen County parks are pretty saturated with caches already.

[+wjgrun]

Actually most Bergen County parks are pretty saturated with caches already.

You are not suggesting that no new caches should be placed in Bergen County parks, are you?

 

Bill

[+Renegade Knight]

...Am I crazy to expect to get explicit permission for these cache placements? I am only considering wooded areas of public land (a Mahwah owned town park, green acres section in Ramsey, and several Bergen County parks - Campgaw, Ramapo, Saddle River, etc). I know there are caches in the Bergen County parks and in the Mahwah park....

 

Maybe. A lot of parks allow casual recreational activities and enjoy anyone who does this on their lands. It means their park is a success. Also a lot of people don't see caching as anything worth bothering with as they have more pressing concerns. Thus they know about caching and are perfectly content that it's enjoyed with no hassles on their part.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Actually most Bergen County parks are pretty saturated with caches already.

You are not suggesting that no new caches should be placed in Bergen County parks, are you?

 

Bill

 

Naw. We've cleared most of the easier caches in Bergen County. We need more to find!

[+MountainRacer]

You are not suggesting that no new caches should be placed in Bergen County parks, are you?

 

Bill

Not to speak for the person to whom this question was addressed, but answering for myself, I should say not! It'll just take a bit longer of a walk to get to some emptier areas, and you'll have to be somewhat diligent about mapping out current caches and having them on your GPS when you go hiding. It is super-frustrating to spend the time to make a good hide, only to have to go undo it because you were accidentally within the .1-mile-zone of another one. By all means, place caches to your heart's content, but do your research first so you don't get stymied.

[+briansnat]

Actually most Bergen County parks are pretty saturated with caches already.

You are not suggesting that no new caches should be placed in Bergen County parks, are you?

 

Bill

 

Not at all. I'm sure there are many interesting places to hide a cache. I was just saying that most parks are already pretty full. You may well know of some areas that others missed. One of the great things about this sport are the neat places that we find through geocaching and I'm often amazed by the spots that people find for their caches even with today's cache saturation.

Edited September 17, 2009 by briansnat

[+Packanack]

Out of curiosity, I ran a PQ out of 07601 --Hackensack, there were not all that many caches , within the search radius that I chose, which of course eliminated Oakland, Mahwah and those environs. Of further interest was that there did not seem to be a very active community in Bergen County. I know of a couple of Bergen County Parks that are devoid of caches. I guess shopping and sitting in traffic are the recreational activities over there.

I went back and took another look and it looks like two cachers have pretty much cornered the market on 2009 hides in Bergen County, that would be thirstmick and some other person whose name escapes me. Most of the existing caches in BC are old. and many of them are owned by missing owners.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Packanack

[+Packanack]

For instance, GC533C and GC537D were both placed in 2002, the owner disappeared in 2005, I remember them both needind to be maintained for years, but they both still exist, for it looks like some well meaning but woefully naive person took it upon himself to perform some repair at some time. This is they type of thing that gives us a bad rep with some folks, before we hide more, maybe we should be picking up the refuse.

This comment has not been vetted by Harry Dolphin .

Edited September 17, 2009 by Packanack

[+wjgrun]

Not at all. I'm sure there are many interesting places to hide a cache. I was just saying that most parks are already pretty full. You may well know of some areas that others missed. One of the great things about this sport are the neat places that we find through geocaching and I'm often amazed by the spots that people find for their caches even with today's cache saturation.

 

I'm relatively new to this, but the kinds of geocaching I like most are caches that bring me to new spots with something interesting to see, very creative hides, and mostly caches that are placed close to good hiking trails in the woods. If you get me out on a good hike where I can pick up a couple of cache finds along the way, I'm quite happy. I don't need particularly difficult hiding spots (though the occasionally higher difficulty find does give that nice feeling of finally making the find after a long search).

 

micros/nanos/park and grabs/lamp post/guard rail/etc are still nice/good since it's always nice to make a find and as much as I have more free time than I'd like (I'm self-employed), sometimes I don't feel like going on long hikes alone.

 

So far I wouldn't say that I've found the most exciting places to bring people to with a new cache placement. While I have some other ideas, my current "most likely to happen first" cache placements are at Campgaw & at Lake Henry (Continental Soldiers Park in Mahwah). I have not yet decided on exact locations at either place.

 

At Campgaw, I believe (not certain about the two multicache stages) there are a few trails or large sections of trails with no caches. The trail around Lake Henry is short & easy. If I had to guess, I would say it could only support 3 caches without breaking the .1 mile rule. There is one cache there already, but there is an area about .1 away that I like - there is almost always a large gathering of turtles sunning themselves.

 

My new caches at these locations would likely be "easy" and not so interesting, but (a few reasons "in no particular order"):

Would give the FTF hounds more chances to pad their FTF counts.

Would give the all about the numbers cachers more chances to pad their find counts.

Would give locals that have already cleared their home radius more to find.

Would allow this cacher to "give back" to the caching community.

Might encourage another or first enjoyable trip through these parks?

 

Bill

[+Harry Dolphin]

For instance, GC533C and GC537D were both placed in 2002, the owner disappeared in 2005, I remember them both needind to be maintained for years, but they both still exist, for it looks like some well meaning but woefully naive person took it upon himself to perform some repair at some time. This is they type of thing that gives us a bad rep with some folks, before we hide more, maybe we should be picking up the refuse.

This comment has not been vetted by Harry Dolphin .

 

Ah. Actually she disappeared from New Jersey in 2002. Went off to college in DC. Stopped geocaching before she graduated college. Old caches, but not particularly interesting. As I remember, Rubbermaid containers. Not bad for 2002 caches, I guess. But should have been archived when she moved to DC. She forgot about geocaching four years ago. Perhaps time we forgot about her?

Can think of a few others from that era that don't seem to be maintained by the owners. The tree stump disappeared five years ago, for goodness sake. But they continue on.

I only cache near Paramus on Sundays when the Blue Laws are in effect!

But, there are still lots of places in Bergen County to hide geocaches!

[+wjgrun]

I did get a call back from someone at the Bergen County Administration offices earlier today - I believe her name was Nancy Monteck (but I could be way off - the call caught me off-guard). She said that she knew what geocaching was, that "they do that at Camp Glen Gray" (paraphrased "quote") and gave me their "email address" - glengray.org. She said something like "they don't do that at smaller parks like Van Saun because they're too crowded" - I told her that there are actually two caches at Van Saun Park already. She was surprised by this, but just said that I should contact Camp Glen Gray. I asked specifically if Bergen County had any policies at all regarding geocaching - she said "no". She said that she had talked with the County Permit division/department, and they did not know what geocaching was - that no permits were required.

 

I guess I'll go with the frisbee / casual, recreational use theory, since I tried to get explicit permission and was in essence told that none was necessary. Even though I'm fairly certain they don't understand geocaching & how wide-spread it already is - the people I have been in contact with have not seemed concerned. I intend to make sure any cache hide I place follows The Geocachers' Creed.

 

Bill

[+wjgrun]

For instance, GC533C and GC537D were both placed in 2002, the owner disappeared in 2005, I remember them both needind to be maintained for years, but they both still exist, for it looks like some well meaning but woefully naive person took it upon himself to perform some repair at some time. This is they type of thing that gives us a bad rep with some folks, before we hide more, maybe we should be picking up the refuse.

 

I would like to see caches that are not being maintained properly removed.

 

Positives:

We get to find "better" caches

Locations open up for active cachers to place new hides

The "needs maintenance" attribute is more accurate

Active Cache Owners can (will) respond to cache inquiries

 

Negatives:

Losing historic caches (I'd really hate to ever lose "gerbiL cacHe" - but, on the other hand, I don't think it's the same cache it was in 2000).

If a new cache is not ready to be placed in the same area, removing caches could mean we lose some great cache locations.

 

Bill