Handheld evolution

[+RRLover]

My priority list doesn't have caching #1 w/a bullet.

I use the PN-40 because it does what it does better, . . . better. And what it doesn't do better, it does well!

 

Started w/Magellan eXplorist XL; loved the screen size (huge), backlight could dbl. as a flashlight (bright), good battery life (caveat) 4 AA's.

I loved the flexibility of the file system (refined and tuned, evolving from the Meridians), Software on computer was typical of PC stuff.

Support, what support, "We don't need no stinkin' support, we're Thales/Shaw/Mitac man, they'll take it, and like it!"

"Sorry man gotta run now!" "Do lunch next week?" "Groovy!" . . . Never to be heard from again!

 

Presently use DeLorme 40 SE; screen size smaller (pixels seem denser) brightness is good, battery life is good (when using good quality batteries).

I feel the file system needs to be addressed (like . . . yesterday?) I hope Topo 8 is the final iteration before a stem to stern rebuild, it's hit the final

plateau.

Support service? My experience has been excellent. From my two experiences: upgrading "back plastics" and upgrading Topo.

 

If the two units could be assimilated into one(touch screen is of low priority to me), and a RouteBuddy-esque GUI for the computer

software w/Topo(9?), XmapPro(7?), and SA(2010?) combined in true a full-flavored cross-platform (ala GPSBable(Windows/Mac/*nix))

compatible package, (IMO) competition would be dropped, and none other would survive.

 

Lets face it, street nav. on a hand-held is fine in a pinch, but doesn't really need be forefront, the opposite is also true for car nav. devices.

If DeLorme did a car nav. device next year I'd give it a shot. They're 'Concept to Consumer Time' is quite remarkable, considering corporate

size and where/when/how they started. Don't just get out of it, shake the box DeLorme, you've got it in ya.

 

Norm

[+TotemLake]

Real time satellite view. That's the ticket.

 

But the next evolutionary step will probably be merging two technologies together to create 3-D aerial views.

[+Searching_ut]

Since the jump from sequential processing to parallel, I haven’t really noticed anything but incremental improvements in handheld units over the past 15 years. Road navigation units have made great strides in map quality, interface with receivers to keep you aware of traffic even re-routing if it gets bad, have speed limit data, lane data, and fantastic POI databases. I used to question whether street maps were even worth the trouble because of accuracy issues that often made using them frustrating to say the least. Now the units are accurate and up to date enough to get you where you are going by talking you through the route. You generally don’t even have to look at the screen anymore.

 

Handheld units however still have a lot of room for improvement in my opinion. They’ve added a bunch of gee-whiz types stuff like flybys, but haven’t really improved the quality of the geographical data. Property boundaries are old and outdated, often going back to the old USGS surveys of 20 years ago or more, making it hard to know if you’re on public or private property, in and area requiring a permit to hike, etc. Maps, display quality, and battery life are areas where I think things will improve.

 

Started with a Magellan 2000 back in 1995, barely usable except in flat open terrain, but well worth the trouble on the boat or desert. First mapping unit was a G-III with a full 1.5 meg or so of map memory. Current mapping handhelds are Old blue Legend, VistaC, PN-40, and Dakota 20. My vehicles have Nuvis and Streetpilots left in them all the time so I don’t use handheld for street mapping except sometimes on fly to destination vacations.

[+user13371]

Looking forward, thinking only in "consumer grade" units:

 

Locating technology won't improve much, because fr most consumers there's really not much difference between finding a given street corner or finding a benchmark. Not everybody NEEDS sub-metre accuracy.

 

The biggest changes will be in quality of maps (and how they're delivered), and the user interfaces.

 

Maps? More data sources and higher quality delivered at a lower price. The internet and the increase in "always connected" devices (iPhone, Windows Mobile, Android, Nuviphone, etc) are already driving this change. Advice to any map company whose business model is "sell mostly static data, rarely updated, in bulk:" Evolve or die.

 

Likewise, the growing presence of GPS in devices that aren't "dedicated" GPS units will push improvements in user interfaces. When your audience is mostly "specialists" who need a GPS (military, pilots, boaters, hikers, geocachers, geeks, etc)... you can make whatever interface you want and those folks will learn how to use it. When your audience expands to, well, everybody - you have to make it easier. Intuitive. Aesthetically pleasing.

 

Garmin and Apple get this, clearly. So I'd watch them and predict they'll be copied by others.

Edited August 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+RRLover]

I like how this topic is progressing, . . . "Roll with it!"

More input.

Let's keep it real, . . . no implants please. ;^)

Now where'd I put those 3D glasses?

 

Norm

Edited August 9, 2009 by RRLover

[Tahoe Skier5000]

The ultimate GPSr would be this... Really it couldn't get any better...

 

+ 3D Aerial Maps (...even further into the future.. incorporate a 3-D "trail view" into eye glasses/sunglasses - like HUD technology with routes projected visually on the terrain through the glasses)

+ Enable the user to point at terrain or objects and be able to interact with the GPSr

+ When the user points at objects, information on object is displayed on the lenses (like elevation, distance, historical significance etc)

+ Downloadable maps on-the-fly anywhere (pay per month service)

+ Real-time weather information/forecast

+ Unlimited battery life (ambient RF energy collection such as what is being developed by Nokia, and or kinetic generator)

 

Theres more I believe, but this would all be a good start

Edited August 9, 2009 by Tahoe Skier5000

[+user13371]

The ultimate GPSr would be...

Except for the battery life/charging thing, most of what you're talking about is commonly called "augmented reality." And it's on its way to Androids and iPhones real soon now...

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10266380-1.html

Edited August 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+splashy]

This layar has nothing to do with Gps

Is just a part of funda site = real estate demo

Basically a sequence of fotoos from Google earth or something like that.

[+user13371]

This layar has nothing to do with Gps

Layar was one example. Read the CNet/Crave article, this has everything to do with location-aware devices. Edited August 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

• Touchscreens as legible and bright as today's non-touch screen color units
  
• More complete trail maps; surely we can get to 90% coverage, what with all the user generated data out there
  

[+splashy]

That location aware is via WiFi or cell phone nodes, I have this on my Itouch and it works as long as I'm connected to a WiFi hotspot. Puts you on a google maps in a circle of about 150 yards.

[+user13371]

That location aware is via WiFi or cell phone nodes, I have this on my Itouch ...

And going forward, a device like the iPhone 3GS (which includes a GPS and an electronic compass) can know where you are AND what direction you're looking -- part of what makes the "augmented reality" a possibility. This is a step beyond just showing a map of the neighborhood you're in. The idea is that you may eventually be able to point your camera/phone/gps/etc at something and have it tell you what you're looking at.

 

For another way to look at it, see http://panoramascope.com/ -- while not especially useful to me, it is interesting stuff.

Edited August 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

[MtnHermit]

More complete trail maps; surely we can get to 90% coverage, what with all the user generated data out there

It's not the data, rather the collection. We have the perfect example in Jon F. Stanley's NW_Trails project. Without his considerable time and knowledge that would be nowhere. So how do you replicate his model?

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I wrote about this a week or so ago...

 

Garmin, trails and missed opportunities

[Grasscatcher]

Everyone above only seems to be concerned with all the add-on fluff & frills.....NOT the GPS itself!

 

What good are all the pretty little pictures (maps & aerial photos) if the data you record, and see overlayed on them, is incorrect? ......besides, just how much useful detail can you see on a 2"X2" screen?

 

I would rather see a new GPS model that has these capabilities;

record accurate tracks without drift under dense cover,

consistent WAAS reception,

external antenna capability,

camera for one step geo-tagging,

 

None of the more recent models by any manufacturer qualify.

[+user13371]

... "augmented reality"...

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/08/26/1st...ed.reality.app/

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/07/08/aug...ed.reality.app/

[+TotemLake]

... "augmented reality"...

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/08/26/1st...ed.reality.app/

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/07/08/aug...ed.reality.app/

That is very cool nevermind that it is fluff.

 

There was a day when TV was fluff to radio, and after that, color was fluff to black and white, stereo fluff to mono, quad to stereo and then surround sound to quad. It's a great example of the progression of technology that makes the devices more usable for more people.

[+user13371]

...There was a day when TV was fluff to radio, and after that, color was fluff to black and white, stereo fluff to mono, quad to stereo and then surround sound to quad. It's a great example of the progression of technology that makes the devices more usable for more people.

And that's why your next GPS (or maybe the one after that) will probably have an always-on data connection. Almost certainly via the cellular phone network, because that infrastructure is already widely in place and growing.

 

The price will eventually come down enough to make it ubiquitous, and it just enables too many useful things to buy one without ...

[Tahoe Skier5000]

And that's why your next GPS (or maybe the one after that) will probably have an always-on data connection. Almost certainly via the cellular phone network, because that infrastructure is already widely in place and growing.

 

I would not buy a GPS with always-on data connection via the cellular network.

 

I can just see it now... On a hike, having a good time, taking pictures of the scenery, then... no map... Where did it go?!?! Oh yeah, no cell service out here!

 

Stupid, stupid idea. Same thing with having rechargeable lithium ion battery packs in GPS devices. Stupid idea. Give us easy to find and obtain AA batteries (and rechargeable AAs). Atleast until a much more robust rechargeable battery is designed that can last atleast 10 years and give the user 2 weeks or more of use on one charge.

 

The only way always-on data will work is if they can make it very reliable and available everywhere you have a view of the sky. Satellite data is where I'm thinking. This is the future. Not there now as capacity/cost is an issue, but we will be in the next 7-10 years I'm thinking.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Tahoe Skier5000

[+user13371]

I would not buy a GPS with always-on data connection via the cellular network.

YOU personally might not... but lots of other folks will. Already do, actually.

 

1) Satellite coverage may eventually be more cost effective than cellular -- but the near term evolution still gives cellular the edge in most locations.

 

2) You have a legitimate concern about battery life -- regardless of where your "always on" connection is coming from. That's why I carry spare batteries in an external pack and keep an eye on power managements.

 

3) But going forward (this thread IS about evolution aftrer all), I'd expect incremental improvements in battery life and including unconventional on-the-go charging methods (solar, kinetic energy, etc).

Edited August 26, 2009 by lee_rimar

[jimlarkey]

I am reasonably satisfied with the technology in the 60Csx, for back country use. The incremental changes are churning that supports additional purchases. Looking forward to the next quantum leap. I endorse the The Good Enough Revolution: When Cheap and Simple Is Just Fine for GPSrs.

 

Cheers,

Jim

[Tahoe Skier5000]

I would not buy a GPS with always-on data connection via the cellular network.

YOU personally might not... but lots of other folks will. Already do, actually.

 

1) Satellite coverage may eventually be more cost effective than cellular -- but the near term evolution still gives cellular the edge in most locations.

 

2) You have a legitimate concern about battery life -- regardless of where your "always on" connection is coming from. That's why I carry spare batteries in an external pack and keep an eye on power managements.

 

3) But going forward (this thread IS about evolution aftrer all), I'd expect incremental improvements in battery life and including unconventional on-the-go charging methods (solar, kinetic energy, etc).

 

1. I understand that. I suppose if you never left the confines of the city where cell service is plentiful, this type of coverage would be fine. I prefer to live my life a little outside the boundaries of a city where cell service isn't a reality. A cellular streaming data system is an absolutely failure for my needs.

 

2.) Why go through the hassle though, honestly, of carrying bulky battery packs and having to micromanage your power saving settings. What fun is that? Seriously, that is annoying as all hell. All I have to do is slip in two new freshly charged AA's I bought for $5 at the store and on I go. No battery packs.

 

3.) I am excited about electronics evolving, to an extent. However, the trend right now atleast is leaning towards disposable use, and data tethered (to a central system) electronics. Things like sealed rechargeable batteries, for example, are likely the way of the future (which I hate). It means to me that the device I buy has a definite service life of X many years before I need to depend on Garmin or whoever to fix or replace it. This is unnecessary from a consumer point of view. I see why businesses love it, because its an easy profit and guarantees a revenue stream from people having to buy all new units in 2 years or replacing the expensive batteries. I, on the other hand, feel like a dog on a leash... I can't stand it.

 

The fact that real-time streaming data is becoming an integral part of new electronics doesn't bother me so much as long as there remains a backup way of doing what I have to do. Give me the ability to download maps, traffic, weather, or whatever whenever connected, but also give me the ability to fall back on a stored version of what I need in case I don't have service.

 

Evolution is great, so long as we the consumers keep companies in check and don't let things get out of control. GPSrs should always and forever be: durable, reliable, and last as long as it can until the buttons fall off.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Tahoe Skier5000

[+geodarts]

I suppose the next stage in handheld evolution for me would be to do the things that have promised: units that handled whereigos without error and detailed maps that had trail information.

[+user13371]

... units that handled whereigos without error and detailed maps that had trail information.

Those aren't "evolution" features - those are specialty items

[+user13371]

The fact that real-time streaming data is becoming an integral part of new electronics doesn't bother me so much as long as there remains a backup way of doing what I have to do. Give me the ability to download maps, traffic, weather, or whatever whenever connected, but also give me the ability to fall back on a stored version of what I need in case I don't have service.

I can't speak for other devices, but several iPhone apps offer this capability.

 

Road maps with turn-by-turn: GMap, Navigon, Sygic, TomTom, others

 

Topo Maps: Phil Endecott's "Topo Map," RouteBuddy, others

 

OpenSource Maps: I've lost count of how many OpenStreetMap loaders there are; looked at a couple but I really am satisfied with GMap for road maps and haven't bothered with OSM on the iPhone.

Edited August 27, 2009 by lee_rimar

[Maximus XX!V]

I am reasonably satisfied with the technology in the 60Csx, for back country use. The incremental changes are churning that supports additional purchases. Looking forward to the next quantum leap. I endorse the The Good Enough Revolution: When Cheap and Simple Is Just Fine for GPSrs.

 

Cheers,

Jim

 

I take your fears and add my nightmare of pay for play. Like cell service, you own nothing and are required to pay a monthly fee or overpriced per use charges. That is economic nirvana for any company.

[+user13371]

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing

[Biergartler]

Everyone above only seems to be concerned with all the add-on fluff & frills.....NOT the GPS itself!

 

Which is why I'd like to see dual frequency capability to handle the new L2C signals. They're supposed to be turning on the CNAV this year or next.