Archival of cache due to GAY social agenda?

[+TrailGators]

We also can't recommend diners either

 

Yes we can.

 

There seems to be some disagreement:

So your main premise is that recommending a good place to eat that is near the cache is the same thing as promoting gay day? I disagree. Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting gay day?

It makes no difference. The reason the 'no agendas' guideline exists is so the reviewers don't have to determine which agendas are worthy and which aren't.

Edited December 16, 2008 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

So your main premise is that recommending a good place to eat that is near the cache is the same thing as promoting gay day? I disagree. Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting gay day?

 

Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting a diner near the cache site? Seems pretty much the same to me (except people's perception of unsolicited advertising being different from people's perception of homosexuality).

I never said we should allow emails about diners, did I? The guideline is made because some people have no common sense. For example, I can't imagine kids going to their parents and saying "OMG! Mom and Dad I just got an email about a restaurant!" However, I can imagine kids going to their parents and asking "What is gay? Why is there gay day?"

Um - I dunno - maybe answer their question, as appropriate for their age level?

 

Except for Santa or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy, I don't promote lying to kids. Modifying things a little to make them understandable for their age is appropriate, but lying or avoiding topics because you're squeemish about them is a bad idea.

 

The point is that it's not up to others to decide how anyone should raise their kids. My kids are doing extremely well so I have proof that what I have been doing works well.

I suspect that you are too close to that issue to have an informed opinion. Years down the line when they are participating in conversations like this one, the world will be able to judge whether you did a good job, or not.

 

Either way, a child who is old enough to recieve unsolicited emails is old enough to ask his parent what 'gay' is. Like most such questions from children, the best plan is to give a short, truthful, age appropriate answer and move on.

Edited December 16, 2008 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

So your main premise is that recommending a good place to eat that is near the cache is the same thing as promoting gay day? I disagree. Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting gay day?

 

Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting a diner near the cache site? Seems pretty much the same to me (except people's perception of unsolicited advertising being different from people's perception of homosexuality).

I never said we should allow emails about diners, did I? The guideline is made because some people have no common sense. For example, I can't imagine kids going to their parents and saying "OMG! Mom and Dad I just got an email about a restaurant!" However, I can imagine kids going to their parents and asking "What is gay? Why is there gay day?"

Um - I dunno - maybe answer their question, as appropriate for their age level?

 

Except for Santa or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy, I don't promote lying to kids. Modifying things a little to make them understandable for their age is appropriate, but lying or avoiding topics because you're squeemish about them is a bad idea.

 

The point is that it's not up to others to decide how anyone should raise their kids. My kids are doing extremely well so I have proof that what I have been doing works well.

I suspect that you are too close to that issue to have in anformed opinion. Years down the line when they are participating in conversations like this one, the world will be able to judge whether you did a good job, or not.

The world can't agree on anything.

[+Rockin Roddy]

So your main premise is that recommending a good place to eat that is near the cache is the same thing as promoting gay day? I disagree. Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting gay day?

 

Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting a diner near the cache site? Seems pretty much the same to me (except people's perception of unsolicited advertising being different from people's perception of homosexuality).

I never said we should allow emails about diners, did I? The guideline is made because some people have no common sense. For example, I can't imagine kids going to their parents and saying "OMG! Mom and Dad I just got an email about a restaurant!" However, I can imagine kids going to their parents and asking "What is gay? Why is there gay day?"

Um - I dunno - maybe answer their question, as appropriate for their age level?

 

Except for Santa or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy, I don't promote lying to kids. Modifying things a little to make them understandable for their age is appropriate, but lying or avoiding topics because you're squeemish about them is a bad idea.

 

The point is that it's not up to others to decide how anyone should raise their kids. My kids are doing extremely well so I have proof that what I have been doing works well. Childhood is a wonderful age. Geocaching is a wonderful game for kids. So I'm just being the Catcher in the Rye. The real reason the guideline is there is because we don't need to bring stuff like gay day into a fun family game. We also can't recommend diners either because if that happens then someone will think that the door is open for far less benign agendas.

 

Save for the repeated posts here, how many times will your kids be reading the email about the archived cache?? How many times will it come up? Do you allow your kids to read your emails, because there's where they're most likely to see the archived log (unless you bring the archived cache to their attention??).

 

It's NOT that big a deal unless you allow it to be...my suggestion stands at get over it, move on and go back to having fun!

[+sbell111]

So your main premise is that recommending a good place to eat that is near the cache is the same thing as promoting gay day? I disagree. Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting gay day?

 

Why should people that just want to play a game get emails promoting a diner near the cache site? Seems pretty much the same to me (except people's perception of unsolicited advertising being different from people's perception of homosexuality).

I never said we should allow emails about diners, did I? The guideline is made because some people have no common sense. For example, I can't imagine kids going to their parents and saying "OMG! Mom and Dad I just got an email about a restaurant!" However, I can imagine kids going to their parents and asking "What is gay? Why is there gay day?"

Um - I dunno - maybe answer their question, as appropriate for their age level?

 

Except for Santa or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy, I don't promote lying to kids. Modifying things a little to make them understandable for their age is appropriate, but lying or avoiding topics because you're squeemish about them is a bad idea.

 

The point is that it's not up to others to decide how anyone should raise their kids. My kids are doing extremely well so I have proof that what I have been doing works well.

I suspect that you are too close to that issue to have in anformed opinion. Years down the line when they are participating in conversations like this one, the world will be able to judge whether you did a good job, or not.

The world can't agree on anything.

And all parents think they are doing a bang up job.

 

None of this changes the fact that the archival of these caches did not violate teh guidelines and that the caches might be able to be unarchived fi requested, provided that they meet the current guidelines.

Edited December 16, 2008 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

... The world can't agree on anything.

That's why all the people in the world are not the government of the world. It's why a company ultimatly hires a president and why there are umpires making the call rather than the parents in the stands.

 

I know plenty of horrid little brats who's smiling indulgent parents clearly don't care enough for them to raise them to be adults able to stand on their own (which is the minimum standard of success in my book) two legs in life and make their way in the world. The future those kids have is one of suckling on their parents teats until their parents die and they lose their inheritance to money mismanagement and finally have to go make a real living only they can't.

 

Some of those horrid little brats are even nice people.

 

Geocaching tie in: Some of these folks will become cachers. I'll bet the are the 'entitlement' folks the forums whine about. But maybe not. It would take a 'gubbiment' study to figure it out, and a passel of shrinks to tell us 'they are A-OK' and that the working stiffs who make the world go round are the ones who need help.

 

But before I look at your kids, it's a full time job to see what I can do about my own, so I'll be happy to buy you a beer where we can both complain about our kids. I mean brag about them...

Edited December 16, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+TrailGators]

... The world can't agree on anything.

That's why all the people in the world are not the government of the world. It's why a company ultimatly hires a president and why there are umpires making the call rather than the parents in the stands.

 

I know plenty of horrid little brats who's smiling indulgent parents clearly don't care enough for them to raise them to be adults able to stand on their own (which is the minimum standard of success in my book) two legs in life and make their way in the world. The future those kids have is one of suckling on their parents teats until their parents die and they lose their inheritance to money mismanagement and finally have to go make a real living only they can't.

 

Some of those horrid little brats are even nice people.

 

Geocaching tie in: Some of these folks will become cachers. I'll bet the are the 'entitlement' folks the forums whine about. But maybe not. It would take a 'gubbiment' study to figure it out, and a passel of shrinks to tell us 'they are A-OK' and that the working stiffs who make the world go round are the ones who need help.

 

But before I look at your kids, it's a full time job to see what I can do about my own, so I'll be happy to buy you a beer where we can both complain about our kids. I mean brag about them...

I'll take you up on those beers!

[+ccwrestlechik105]

As a fellow gay in the area, I'm sadened by the fact that I won't be able to ever find this cache because of the social agenda. In my eyes this whole argument between the two sides has gotten blown way out of proportion, but that's besides the point. Yes, it is the right of this cacher to archive his/her cache, but now, what would have seemed like a really fun cache to try and find will most likely be archived permanately.

 

Sad times.... sniff sniff....

 

TEAM NIGHTWATCH

[Clan Riffster]

What am I supposed to tell them?

I dunno. Your communiques with your kids should come from your heart, not from an Internet forum.

Maybe you could mention that your need for being offended exceeds their need for eating a reasonably good source of protein?

"Sorry Son, the current interpretation of this 3000 year old piece of parchment supposedly says we can't have porkchops anymore"

Your kids. Your call.

[+Rockin Roddy]

What am I supposed to tell them?

I dunno. Your communiques with your kids should come from your heart, not from an Internet forum.

Maybe you could mention that your need for being offended exceeds their need for eating a reasonably good source of protein?

"Sorry Son, the current interpretation of this 3000 year old piece of parchment supposedly says we can't have porkchops anymore"

Your kids. Your call.

 

[+wavector]

There seems to be some disagreement:

 

There is no disagreement, you just didn't read the linked thread;

mtn-man clarified the guideline, here is a link to the post.

 

They are several points, a one time log is not likely to be considered the "promotion" of an agenda since the log is only made once. There is no link in the log, there is no solicitation in the log and the cacher writing the log makes no requests for donations.

I don't think Groundspeak needs to look at every log written on every cache to make sure that there is no reference to "blood donations" even if you are personally opposed to "blood donations". If you see a cacher soliciting "blood donations" on logs then you can complain and Groundspeak will act to end the solicitation.

 

People are free to talk about "Save the Whale" day in their logs because the purpose of the no solicitation guideline isn't to restrict individual expression. I am pretty sure that most people will understand that my practice of going to a "synagogue" shouldn't restrict your use of the word "church" in a geocaching log. I should not be complaining to Groundspeak every time you use the word "Allah" in a geocaching log.

 

You keep throwing out the words "family" and "family friendly" and in my opinion your comments are the least "family friendly" comments made on this thread. I am not sure what approach you would use if you met a "gay family" out geocaching or at a geocaching event but I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance would not become active intolerance that negatively affected the "children" of gay parents.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Having just stumbled up on this thread once again, I cannot believe that this thread is still alive. My sense is that is what is really going on for at least a few of the posters is thinly-veiled amazement and fear along the lines of "Oh no! There is a gay geocacher among us! Eeek Quick! Get rid of it!"

[+wavector]

I dunno. Your communiques with your kids should come from your heart, not from an Internet forum.

 

I do not agree with this but it does sound good.

 

As a parent I feel beholden to provide accurate information to my children, reagrdless of how I might "feel", society goes even further and laws regarding the teaching of curriculum are found in almost every locale.

The Internet is an invaluable source of progressive informed opinion and there is not one person who would not benefit from using this tool as an aide to teaching their children.

 

Discussions held in forums on the Internet are valuable - public discussion is the crucible in which public opinion is formed. Geocaching is an especially valuable activity in that it allows us to connect to other people directly and our interactions are all based upon the use of the Internet, in many cases this listing service may be the only common ground that two geocachers share, as demonstrated on this thread.

 

Talk it out.

It isn't that hard to be fair.

There should be lots of room on the lilypad.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Having just stumbled up on this thread once again, I cannot believe that this thread is still alive. My sense is that is what is really going on for at least a few of the posters is thinly-veiled amazement and fear along the lines of "Oh no! There is a gay geocacher among us! Eeek Quick! Get rid of it!"

 

When did we start letting the gays in? Soon the women will want to play, too.

[+TrailGators]

There seems to be some disagreement:

 

There is no disagreement, you just didn't read the linked thread;

mtn-man clarified the guideline, here is a link to the post.

 

They are several points, a one time log is not likely to be considered the "promotion" of an agenda since the log is only made once. There is no link in the log, there is no solicitation in the log and the cacher writing the log makes no requests for donations.

I don't think Groundspeak needs to look at every log written on every cache to make sure that there is no reference to "blood donations" even if you are personally opposed to "blood donations". If you see a cacher soliciting "blood donations" on logs then you can complain and Groundspeak will act to end the solicitation.

 

People are free to talk about "Save the Whale" day in their logs because the purpose of the no solicitation guideline isn't to restrict individual expression. I am pretty sure that most people will understand that my practice of going to a "synagogue" shouldn't restrict your use of the word "church" in a geocaching log. I should not be complaining to Groundspeak every time you use the word "Allah" in a geocaching log.

 

You keep throwing out the words "family" and "family friendly" and in my opinion your comments are the least "family friendly" comments made on this thread. I am not sure what approach you would use if you met a "gay family" out geocaching or at a geocaching event but I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance would not become active intolerance that negatively affected the "children" of gay parents.

I get it now. You think I am intolerant because I don't want to get emails about gay day. You think I am intolerant because I think that people playing the game should keep personal agendas like separate from a game.

 

By the way, just because I express my honest opinion in a forum doesn't mean that I'm ever rude to people in real life. I'm not. So it's very insulting for you to pin that on me. I guess I'm not allowed to share my opinion if it differs from yours without being insulted. There is after all only one side of a coin...

Edited December 17, 2008 by TrailGators

[+command Z]

I don't get how this would draw attention to the Day without Gay movement. I mean, now the caches won't show up on searches so very few people will know about the Day without Gay archivals.

 

Not after this forum post

[+TrailGators]

I don't get how this would draw attention to the Day without Gay movement. I mean, now the caches won't show up on searches so very few people will know about the Day without Gay archivals.

I can answer that. When you subscribe to email notifications you get emails whenever there are new caches, archived caches or disabled caches. It is a really nice feature. Since this is alse a very popular feature most people with 10-20 miles of a cache will get an email when it is archived to let them know. So someday if several people decided to write notes and archive a bunch of caches then emails could "theoretically" go out to a very large group.

[+wavector]

By the way, just because I express my honest opinion in a forum doesn't mean that I'm ever rude to people in real life. I'm not.

 

I actually said this;

 

I am not sure what approach you would use if you met a "gay family" out geocaching or at a geocaching event but I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance would not become active intolerance that negatively affected the "children" of gay parents.

 

I would like to know how you would handle the situation because you say things like this;

 

The guideline is made because some people have no common sense.

This is a family friendly game. If you guys don't see that, then there is not much else I can say.

 

I hope you can see why I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance doesn't turn into active intolerance and I hope you understand you do not have a monopoly on the word "family".

And I really don't get your point about common sense because I see the lack of it, we just don't agree on where the lack occurs. If you feel that you have been unfairly labeled then that is likely a result of your "reading" rather than my "writing".

[+TrailGators]

By the way, just because I express my honest opinion in a forum doesn't mean that I'm ever rude to people in real life. I'm not.

 

I actually said this;

 

I am not sure what approach you would use if you met a "gay family" out geocaching or at a geocaching event but I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance would not become active intolerance that negatively affected the "children" of gay parents.

 

I would like to know how you would handle the situation because you say things like this;

 

The guideline is made because some people have no common sense.

This is a family friendly game. If you guys don't see that, then there is not much else I can say.

 

I hope you can see why I sincerely hope that your expressed intolerance doesn't turn into active intolerance and I hope you understand you do not have a monopoly on the word "family".

And I really don't get your point about common sense because I see the lack of it, we just don't agree on where the lack occurs. If you feel that you have been unfairly labeled then that is likely a result of your "reading" rather than my "writing".

Sorry, I have been using the word family my entire life to mean a Mom, Dad and kids. You aren't going to reprogram years of synapses firing a certain way in my brain that quickly. Anyhow, it would bug me just as much if people were sending out emails about anything that wasn't kid friendly on a game site. That was where the common sense part should have kicked in: "This is a game. Why am I doing this? Does it make sense?"

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Having just stumbled up on this thread once again, I cannot believe that this thread is still alive. My sense is that is what is really going on for at least a few of the posters is thinly-veiled amazement and fear along the lines of "Oh no! There is a gay geocacher among us! Eeek Quick! Get rid of it!"

 

When did we start letting the gays in? Soon the women will want to play, too.

I know! This is entirely true! Then we will be forced to let bisexuals into the world of geocaching, and even people who violate gender role stereotypes, and even nudists, and people who work as strippers, and even people who are... aaarrggghhh! The topic is so painful to me that I cannot even continue to write about it! It is a travesty! What people do not realize is that all of these things, and plenty of other things, are WRONG and EVIL, and I know they are wrong and EVIL because of the following reasons:

• some interpretations of some editions of a two thousand year old piece of parchment say so, or at least they may say so, and so it must be true.
  
• a lot of websites on the Internet say so, and everything you see on the Internet is obviously true.
  
• the voices in my head say so, and they are never wrong.
  
• my history teacher in high school said in 1996 that all these things wrong and against God's will.
  

Worse, if this trend continues, they will even allow dancers to join this sport and to post on the site. In fact, I think that this has already happened... You see, over the past year, I have been able to identify at least six posters on this forum who have account names which contain the word "dancer". Can you believe it? Sad, very sad! And then, if we continue this horrid slide down the slippery slope of moral relativism, they will even allow artists and beatniks to join! At least they have been keeping out the worthless thieving filthy unwashed hippies so far.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+flask]

Sorry, I have been using the word family my entire life to mean a Mom, Dad and kids.

 

single mom/dad with kids?

parents remarried; blended family with kids?

childless couple?

gay couple with kids?

mixed couple with a gay kid?

gay man adopts a child with special needs?

 

i guess none of these people are families.

 

face it, though. if you have a kid that watches TV or goes out of the house, they're going to meet gay people. they will meet approximately the same number of gay people as they will meet left-handed people.

 

despite genetics, your kid probably isn't stupid and will notice that some of the other kids appear to have two parents of the same sex. don't worry, though, in most cases your kids will learn your prejudices from you and they'll also sweep gay people under the carpet.

 

maybe you'll get lucky and one of your kids will be gay. with your attitude, they will probably be afraid to tell you. it couldn't happen to a nicer person.

 

here's a funny little story:

 

once upon a time there was a single mom trying to make ends meet to raise her two kids. she was gay but single. she worked at a prestigious college of medicine, organizing seminars. one day she got asked to be part of a panel discussion for the med students about gay people, and when her boss heard she had been on the panel, she got fired.

 

it became very hard for her to support her family. she had to take a series of menial jobs with bosses who treated her badly.

 

the following spring the son of that boss who fired her came home from school and announced that he was gay. it didn't help the single mom make ends meet, but it made her laugh.

 

the son was thrown out of the family and killed himself.

 

 

actually, that's not true. although it does sometimes happen that way, this particular story has a happy ending. the parents of the gay boy smartened up and his mother authored one of the nation's first civil rights bills protecting gay people.

 

so there's hope for you yet!

[+mtn-man]

This topic has flown way beyond the original post. I am going to close the topic.