Difficult Run Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Oh what fun! I decided to look for High Knob 1865 this past Saturday. This station hasn't been recovered since 1884, so I thought to give it a go. Since High Knob 2 1957 is very close by. (11.665 feet according to the Fizzycalc program), my best bet would be to find the 1957 station and measure from there. As everyone knows, you always start with the description, but something wasn't quite right. The 1865 description mentions the Middletown and Frederick Turnpike, which didn't make sense. Middletown, Va. is about 13 miles to the northwest and no turnpike associated with it. Same for Frederick, Va. Oh snap! - Something's wrong in NGS land... It dawned on me that the description might refer to a station in Maryland. Sure enough, I was right. 1/1/1865 by CGS (MONUMENTED) DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1865 (JAS) A HOLE DRILLED IN BOULDER MARKS THE STATION. THIS SIGNAL IS ON THE SOUTHERN EXTREMITY OF HIGH KNOB AND IS APPROACHED BY A ROAD WHICH RUNS FROM THE MIDDLETOWN AND FREDERICK TURNPIKE. ABOUT 1-1/2 MILES FROM MIDDLETOWN. THE ROAD LEAVES THE PIKE NEARLY OPPOSITE A BRICK HOUSE ON THE S SIDE OF THE PIKE. OPPOSITE THE BRICK HOUSE IS A RUNNING PUMP AND TROUGH FOR WATERING HORSES. PROCEEDING N ABOUT A MILE THE ROAD BEARS TO THE E TOWARDS FREDERICK. REACHING THE SUMMIT OF THE RIDGE. TURN N AND A WOOD ROAD LEADS TO THE TOP OF THE KNOB. I DROVE TO THE TOP WITH A HEAVY SPRING WAGON. JAS is sub assistant J.A. Sullivan, who surveyed the Potomac River between Georgetown and Harper's Ferry. (Source: Report of the U.S. Coast Survey, 1865. - page 19) Map images are from Antietam, MD Quadrangle - 1910 and Ijamsville-Frederick, MD Quadrangle - 1909. What is this second mystery station? CA2598 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pid Name Lat Lon Elev O o Hv ------ ------------------------------ ---------- ----------- -------- - - -- >CA2598 HIGH KNOB 1865 39 27 42. /077 29 44. NN N = No descriptive text available. In the description of JV4611 - High Knob 2 - Maryland: "HIGH KNOB 1865 WAS SEARCHED FOR AFTER MAKING AN INVERSE COMPUTATION BUT WAS NOT FOUND." Ok. - Back to High Knob 2 in Virginia... Found RM1 and RM2 without difficulty and made measurements using a steel tape. Looking down, here's what I see! Chiseled Triangle with a 1" Dimple!!! - Whoa! (I added red dots to show the approximate corners of the triangle.) Is this the 1865 station??? Here's the 1884 description: RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1884 (CHS) STATION IS ON A PROMINENT MOUNTAIN ON THE S SIDE OF MANASSAS GAP AND N OF CHESTER GAP, ON THE N END OF A SUMMIT AND AT THE HIGHEST POINT. THE STATION IS MARKED BY AN IRON ROD PLACED UNDERGROUND ABOUT 6 IN. (IT WAS AN OLD DRILL HOLE) AND OVER THIS IS A LARGE STONE ABOUT 8 IN. THICK AND NEARLY 1 FT. SQUARE OF AN IRREGULAR SHAPE. A DEPRESSION WAS MADE FOR THE CENTER OF THE MARK, 1 IN. IN DIAMETER AND A CRUDE TRIANGLE CUT AROUND IT. A PILE OF STONES 3 FT. HIGH AND 3 FT. IN DIAMETER AT BOTTOM WAS MADE OVER THE SURFACE MARK. A LARGE STONE 3.5- BY 6.3-FT. IS 39.35 FT. S OF THE STATION MARK. At this point, I'm frantically looking for the 1957 station using only a stainless steel probe in a very rocky area. Dig out the metal detector, install fresh batteries. Ding-dang thing doesn't work, so I measure three more times. Half an hour later, success! Putting it all together, I measure from the 1865 station to the 1957 station. Distance = 8 feet 5 inches, 210°. FizzyCalc results = 11.665 ft and 214.105°. Difference = 3.25 feet and about one degree. Now I'm really tempted to lift this stone and find a drill hole beneath it, but decided not to. Here's hoping this find is interesting enough for GeorgeL or DaveD to stop by for a visit. (Bring all your toys!) ~ Mitch ~ Quote Link to comment
Papa-Bear-NYC Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) ... Putting it all together, I measure from the 1865 station to the 1957 station. Distance = 8 feet 5 inches, 210°. FizzyCalc results = 11.665 ft and 214.105°. Difference = 3.25 feet and about one degree. Now I'm really tempted to lift this stone and find a drill hole beneath it, but decided not to. Here's hoping this find is interesting enough for GeorgeL or DaveD to stop by for a visit. (Bring all your toys!) ~ Mitch ~ I think you got it. I had a bad experience with Watatick and Watatick 2 a while back. See This thread An on-the-ground measurement gave a distance of 7 feet, but the Inverse from the latest adjustment gave 3 feet in the wrong direction. Interestingly, the inverse from the original locations from an old CGS report gave close to the measured value. DaveD looked into it and I was told the modern adjustment may not help finding the relationship between 2 old stations that were part of different surveys. Go figure! See if you can get locations for the 2 marks from an old (pre-electronic-computer) source like the CGS publication you quoted. Do an inverse using those old numbers. In the early days, due to limitations imposed by doing the calculations by hand, adjustments were made from the top down, holding fixed the numbers from the level above. Now it's all done in one big calculation with various weights assigned. The old way seems to do better for relative positions of old stations, but the modern method, although more accurate overall, can mess up stations surveyed at different times with observations to different stations. Edited November 17, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC Quote Link to comment
TillaMurphs Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Difficult Run, Congratulations! The adrenaline and excitement must have really been flowing the moment you saw the dimple/triangle and when you found the 1957 station. How amazing it must be to unearth one from the civil war era! Quote Link to comment
Difficult Run Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 TillaMurphs and PapaBear, Thanks for the kind words. Surprisingly, I got more of a kick out of finding the 1957 station - weird. I must have been tired when did this write up... Putting it all together, I measured from the 1865 station to the 1957 station.Distance = 8 feet 5 inches, 210°. FizzyCalc results = 11.665 ft and 214.105°. Difference = 3.25 feet and about one degree. Difference should have been about 4°. - That will teach me to take better notes. Just to clarify, the 1957 station is NE of the 1865 mark. - Oh well. I'm pretty confident that the 1865 mark is still intact, as the stone is level and didn't budge when I inspected it. Too bad my metal detector decided not to cooperate. A rusted iron rod a foot or two underground would have been an easy target to confirm. Amazing that the 1957 survey party didn't see this. Surely the old mark would have been in the footprint of the tower, right? I can't help but chuckle at the 1957 description: THE STATION WAS SEARCHED FOR BY THE RECONNAISSANCE PARTY, THE BUILDING PARTY AND THE OBSERVING PARTY. NO EVIDENCE OF THE DRILL HOLE OR THE BOULDER WAS FOUND. DaveD - Is there any way of finding out the adjusted coords for CA2598/HIGH KNOB 1865/Maryland, which was replaced by High Knob 2 - Maryland? Inquiring minds want to know, ~ Mitch ~ Quote Link to comment
Laffin Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Great find, and exciting story. Quote Link to comment
Difficult Run Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) Bad news... My oldest recovery is now nineteen years younger. HIGH KNOB 1865 was not set in 1865, but in 1884. - A snippet from the 1884 CGS Annual Report confirms this: Compare the photos of KELLER 1884 and HIGH KNOB 1865: Thanks to BDT for posting his drill hole/chiseled triangle on another thread! - You rock! What about STRASBURG? - Artman found it in 2006. Now, two questions remain, one for PapaBear and the other for DaveD: 1) Since HIGH KNOB was set in 1884, is it considered a true Eastern Oblique Arc Station? (and would this apply to KELLER 1884 and STRASBURG?) 2) Can the datasheet for HIGH KNOB 1865 be corrected and renamed "HIGH KNOB 1884" since the DS is clearly in error? ~ Mitch ~ Edited January 3, 2010 by Difficult Run Quote Link to comment
Papa-Bear-NYC Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) Bad news... My oldest recovery is now nineteen years younger. HIGH KNOB 1865 was not set in 1865, but in 1884. - A snippet from the 1884 CGS Annual Report confirms this: Now, two questions remain, one for PapaBear and the other for DaveD: 1) Since HIGH KNOB was set in 1884, is it considered a true Eastern Oblique Arc Station? (and would this apply to KELLER 1884 and STRASBURG?) 2) Can the datasheet for HIGH KNOB 1865 be corrected and renamed "HIGH KNOB 1884" since the DS is clearly in error? ~ Mitch ~ My take is 1) No, High Knob was not part of the EOA. See this map: EOA No. Virginia The closest station is Mt Marshall, about 6 or so miles southwest of High Knob. 2) As I read the documentation, Your find does mark the original 1965 station, which is under that rock. My take is that the 1884 team dug it up and found the underground mark, and then put the 8" flat rock over it as a surface mark. This is not unusual, and the Epping East Base station was marked in just this way. (see Epping East Base) I would say that report in the 1884 does not imply that in 1884 they put in a new station. The line from the 1884 report: "a third point, "High Knob", could be located on the Blue Ridge" may simply mean they found the old station. The log on the data sheet goes further but does not contradict it, but clearly says in 1884 they added the rock with the dimple. Notice they say High Knob was located whereas they state "a new point. "Keller", was established ..." I think, your find got 19 years older again. Edited January 3, 2010 by Papa-Bear-NYC Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.