GPS Choice - Final 3 options - please help

[+oshf]

Okay, I've narrowed down my selection to the following 3 units. I'm a geocacher. I don't need this for driving (we have a Nuvi 260). My problem in choosing is that I need hands on experience in order to know which is right for me.

 

Garmin Vista HCx

Magellan Triton 400

Delorme PN-20

 

Since this is expensive for me (though I realize I could be spending twice as much), I need to make the right choice. I don't mind spending time with the manual to learn how the unit works (PN-20) but out of the box user-friendly is good (Magellan) and of course, everyone loves Garmin (the Vista).

 

So if you have personal experience - either positive or negative - with any of these units, please share.

 

Thank you.

[+intolerable]

There are a number of threads concerning issues on the Vista HCx on this board. Before buying that, I would seriously suggest reading up on those threads. I loved my Vista HCx until a certain firmware (or was it software) update and it's been nothing but disappointment after disappointment ever since that point.

 

That said, others seem to have no issues, so reading up and deciding yourself seems important.

[+trainlove]

I'd avoid Magellan but I'm a satisfied 3.5 year Magellan user and biased about their bad points.

Delorme is great but the PN-40 is supposed to be coming out today or nearly now so I'd get that.

If you're going to go Garmin, nothing beats the 60CSx, except for the 76CSx which is exactly the same internally but cheeper. There may be other newer Garmins I don't know about, but the Colorado and Oregon are so buggy? and have so many versions? and are so expensive?

Edited October 30, 2008 by trainlove

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Delorme is great but the PN-40 is supposed to be coming out today or nearly now so I'd get that.

DeLorme is now looking at mid-November for shipping. They are not that tough to learn. In addition to the manual, there is "Quick Start Guide" in the box, "how to" video(s) available and a forum with a lot of help:

http://forums.delorme.com/index.php

[+embra]

The PN-40 will certainly be the stronger performer relative to the PN-20, but I think the PN-20 will represent great value. My only reservation with it is the auto routing, so if you're covered by another unit there I'd say PN-20 with no reservations. It includes great mapping software and you'll be elgible for the $29 annual subscription fee for imagery downloads (which *did* start today!).

 

If you're pinching pennies, the refurb PN-20's that TigerGPS was offering (and still is, I think) are even better values. I haven't heard of anyone complain about those units to date. I think they were down to $170 for the whole package.

[+embra]

<<double post. grrr>>

Edited October 30, 2008 by embra

[+oshf]

What I like about the pn-20 (and the Magellan) is that the buttons look more intuitive than the Garmin. The deal on the refurbished Delorme makes it a- the least expensive of the 3 and b- the best value, since it includes topo maps, which will be very helpful for geocaching in areas I'm not familiar with.

 

Is it reasonable to expect to use this straight out of the box? Or should I plan not to use it until I've read the manual? And for straight geocaching, do I need to do anything - programming, downloading, etc.?

 

Is there anything to consider vis-a-vis customer support from Delorme? It seems like people can get their answers from these forums.

Edited October 31, 2008 by veebee

[+Hrethgir]

I have a Garmin Legend HCx and just sold my DeLorme PN-20 (going to replace it with a PN-40, I really liked the PN-20). I like them both, and I even made a full thread about my thoughts on both of them:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=204371

 

But anyways, I liked the PN-20 enough to want to upgrade it to the PN-40, although you really can't go wrong with a Garmin HCx or a DeLorme PN-20, they are both very nice units, but read through my post and look at my pros and cons of the two, and go from there. Of course, you're looking at the Vista instead of the legend like I have, but the main differences between them are the Vista has an electronic compass and barometric altimeter, while the Legend doesn't. Otherwise, the Legend and Vista are identical.

[+Hrethgir]

Is it reasonable to expect to use this straight out of the box? Or should I plan not to use it until I've read the manual? And for straight geocaching, do I need to do anything - programming, downloading, etc.?

 

Is there anything to consider vis-a-vis customer support from Delorme? It seems like people can get their answers from these forums.

 

You can use the PN-20 straight out of the box as easily as the Garmin, just play around with the buttons and menus to learn it, that's what I did. But I do like the buttons better on the DeLorme, both in the location and the layout/labeling.

 

For straight geocaching, all you need is the Topo software (basically the DeLorme equivalent of Garmin's MapSource), and that will upload the caches to the unit. That's all I've ever used, just download the .gpx files, open them in Topo 7.0, and send them to the PN-20. After you put all the maps you want onto the unit, of course!

 

As for customer support, it seems pretty good. They have a presence here on these forums (Team DeLorme), and they have their own forums ( forums.delorme.com ), two things Garmin does not have.

[savant9]

You didnt mention what area you primarily cache in, but AFAIK DeLorme does not offer Topo maps for Canada.... Maybe not a big deal for you, just something else to consider.

[+Mudfrog]

I've only used the PN-20 for an hour or two but that was definitely long enough to positively say that it was the slowest unit that i have ever messed with. What i mean is screen refresh rate,,, you press a button to switch screens and it takes a longggggg time for the display to come up. I know a couple of people who really like the little unit but that by itself was enough to make up my mind to not want one...

[+Hrethgir]

I've only used the PN-20 for an hour or two but that was definitely long enough to positively say that it was the slowest unit that i have ever messed with. What i mean is screen refresh rate,,, you press a button to switch screens and it takes a longggggg time for the display to come up. I know a couple of people who really like the little unit but that by itself was enough to make up my mind to not want one...

 

True, the PN-20 is pretty slow about opening pages and redrawing maps, but for geocaching on foot, it seemed to work just fine for me, and got me right on top of the cache. The slowness is part of the reason I sold it to get the PN-40, but that is because I want to use it in conjunction with the aerial imagery and autorouting maps for navigation on my motorcycle, and the slow redraw wouldn't work so well for that. But for walking or bicycling, it was fine. Just takes a little extra patients when getting ready to go find a cache, but once you have it set up, it works fine.

[+oshf]

You didnt mention what area you primarily cache in, but AFAIK DeLorme does not offer Topo maps for Canada.... Maybe not a big deal for you, just something else to consider.

 

I'm in northern NY. Canada isn't that far, but I've only done this domestically so far.

[+flying_mole]

I'll admit to being a bit biased towards Delorme as I have used their maps for years for hiking and cyling (and for that matter driving). They are customer-focused and if you are ever near their hq in Maine it's worth a visit to see Eartha (a huge globe).

I started out with a Garmin Etrex Legend which worked well as long as I stuck to printing out the cache descriptions and stayed away from leaf cover. I bought it last fall and it worked well until Spring came with those leaves!

I just got the PN-20 refurb (a little hard to spring for the -40 just now) and love it. I downloaded a bunch of gc's with descriptions using pocket queries, and then went out and found two today without any paper, and under leaf cover. I'll have a hard time going back to the Etrex (guess what my grandkids will get for Christmas... only slightly used!)

[+Damin69]

Well I think the Vista HCx would be a great compliment to your Nuvi 260 for Caching. My Dad just recently got his Vista HCx and has had no problems zeroing in on the same caches I have been going after with my GPSMAP 60CSx. If he has issues with it I sure have not been able to tell as it seem to be just as accurate as my unit. I also use my Nuvi 255w for Paperless. Good luck....... :-)

[+oshf]

I've only used the PN-20 for an hour or two but that was definitely long enough to positively say that it was the slowest unit that i have ever messed with. What i mean is screen refresh rate,,, you press a button to switch screens and it takes a longggggg time for the display to come up. I know a couple of people who really like the little unit but that by itself was enough to make up my mind to not want one...

 

True, the PN-20 is pretty slow about opening pages and redrawing maps, but for geocaching on foot, it seemed to work just fine for me, and got me right on top of the cache. The slowness is part of the reason I sold it to get the PN-40, but that is because I want to use it in conjunction with the aerial imagery and autorouting maps for navigation on my motorcycle, and the slow redraw wouldn't work so well for that. But for walking or bicycling, it was fine. Just takes a little extra patients when getting ready to go find a cache, but once you have it set up, it works fine.

 

Thanks, HondaH8er, for the link to your comparison between the Delorme and the Garmin. That was very helpful, but now I'm wondering...just HOW slow is the Delorme? Folks have advised just waiting for the PN-40 but for 2 reasons, I'd rather not. It's much more expensive than the PN-20 (especially since I'm eyeing the refurbished one) and also, there's a travel bug that's gathering dust on my refrigerator that I have to get out of here.

 

So how much patience does one need to wait for the maps to load? And to get a signal? And how well do you keep the signal if you go under cover (of trees)?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I haven't been under heavy tree cover but once with my PN-20 and it was not a problem. Others have reported similar.

 

Screen refresh will be a problem if you want to look at it while driving 70mph on an interstate. If you walk less than 10mph while caching, it should not be issue.

 

I'm not concerned with startup, aquistion time. A minute or two, frequently less, when you start it up and you are good to go. However, for those whose practice is to turn it off after every 5 minutes of run time and then back on in another two, off and then on, well, then..........

[+Hrethgir]

I haven't been under heavy tree cover but once with my PN-20 and it was not a problem. Others have reported similar.

 

Screen refresh will be a problem if you want to look at it while driving 70mph on an interstate. If you walk less than 10mph while caching, it should not be issue.

 

I'm not concerned with startup, aquistion time. A minute or two, frequently less, when you start it up and you are good to go. However, for those whose practice is to turn it off after every 5 minutes of run time and then back on in another two, off and then on, well, then..........

 

I agree with all this. The -20 did take a bit longer to acquire on start-up than my Garmin, but once it had the signal, it seemed to work just fine, even under tree cover. The estimated error would go up, but even then, the distance to the cache estimate would still seem to be pretty much spot on. It doesn't work as well next to or in buildings as the Garmin, but you don't run into that much out in the woods.

 

And the screen refresh time is a big reason I sold mine to buy a -40, I just don't think the -20 would work as well for navigation on my motorcycle, especially with high-res imagery. If all I was using it for was caching, I probably wouldn't have sold it, it worked great for that. And don't let the finds count in my sig let you think otherwise, I only had it for about a month, and decided pretty early that I wanted a -40, so I didn't take it out more than about 3 or 4 times, just to make sure I didn't damage it, wanted to keep it in pristine shape for the next lucky owner (he should be getting it Monday).

[japa-fi]

Of course, you're looking at the Vista instead of the legend like I have, but the main differences between them are the Vista has an electronic compass and barometric altimeter, while the Legend doesn't. Otherwise, the Legend and Vista are identical.

Does that mean Legend has the same drifting issues as Vista?

[+embra]

So how much patience does one need to wait for the maps to load? And to get a signal? And how well do you keep the signal if you go under cover (of trees)?

To try and give you some times, I just did a cold boot of my PN-20 in my front yard (I don't think I've had it on in the past week). It took 36 seconds from power on to signal lock. I think sometimes it has taken longer--moving (as in a car) seems to add as much as 5 minutes to acquire lock, and I think I remember it taking a minute or two even when standing still. So there's some variation in that. Any losses of lock once acquired were isolated incidents; I felt the model was quite reliable.

 

Screen redraws also depend on several factors, most notably the amount of data being displayed. I remember redraws taking anywhere from 1 to 4 or 5 seconds. As CowboyPapa noted, the frequent redraws needed if zoomed in in a fast-moving car can make that impractical, but hiking or biking it's not so bad. I don't blame those who found it too slow for their standards, the PN-20 does a lot of neat stuff but most would agree it was underpowered. The PN-40, with its dual-core processors, is as crisp as one could want.

 

Some-but not all--of the slowness of the PN-20 was addressed with firmware upgrades that have improved its efficiency. Also, there are a number of tips, tricks, and workarounds to lessen the PN-20's processor load (happy to share here if asked). But if you think it may be an issue, you might want to buy a new PN-20 from Delorme, who offer a 30-day return period (I don't know if Tiger offers that on the refurbs, but I'm thinking not). Then you can see whether the 20's operations fall within your patience tolerance or not.

[+Hrethgir]

Of course, you're looking at the Vista instead of the legend like I have, but the main differences between them are the Vista has an electronic compass and barometric altimeter, while the Legend doesn't. Otherwise, the Legend and Vista are identical.

Does that mean Legend has the same drifting issues as Vista?

 

From what I've read, yeah, as they both use the same chipset and software. I personally haven't really seen much in the way of drifting (using the 2.7/2.3 combo right now), but the drifting thing is pretty much something over the eTrex line at least (maybe any of the Garmin high-sensitivity receiver sets), not just a specific model. But like I said, I haven't seen this issue, so don't think that if you get an etrex HCx unit that you won't get a good device.

[japa-fi]

I have Legend HCx with 2.6/2.6 version.I do occasional geocaching, but mostly traces for openstreetmap. I don't have drift problems of the magnitude that have been mentioned here. I do get irritated when I'm walking a straight line, but the trace is anything but straight. For example this trace, overlaid on google satellite image: the drift is some 20m / 60ft at it's worst (at the top of image near buildings), but about 10m/30ft range further down (between the trees). If there are buildings on one side, the track will definately drift out, even though there are good satellites not blocked byt the building.

 

Am I just expecting too much, or can one expect better from say...Delorme?

 

[+coggins]

I have Legend HCx with 2.6/2.6 version.

Try the new software 2.8/2.8 I have that loaded and the tracks are fine.

[sanramonhunter]

I'll make things at least 33% easier for you. Drop the Magellan off your list. I have a triton 500 and was so happy when I got another unit. It's usable, but it has so many quirks that it gets annoying to use. Maybe in a year or so after another 4 firware updates it would be a good choice, but if your buying right now don't bother.

 

The PN-20 is probably your best bang for the buck, I've read that you can get them factory refurbed at a good price. The Vista HCx would probably be the easiest to use as far as interfacing with GC.

[+Porakone]

I had a Triton 400 and I wouldn't recommend it. Even if I didn't use it more than occasionally, I had to send it THREE times back to the dealer because if had severe software problems. The first time I upgraded it to 500, but nohting really got better. Three times it's Windows (CE?) said that outdoornav.exe had performed an illegal blah blah and nothing could be done. Every time I got a new one.

 

And the times it worked, it's usability was terrible. Everything works wery slow, the buttons are way too small and too stiff. And the menulogics are a bit strange too. For example, why on earth is the language selection done in profiles (caching, marine etc) and not in the settings? Do they think that someone want's another language in the woods than on the sea :-)

 

Recently I sold it and bought me a Garmin Colorado, and after just a few minutes with it, I realized that using a GPS doesn't have to be a pain in the youknowwhat.

 

So to make it short, I'd say that the Triton 400/500 is slow, unreliable and stiff to operate.

[+oshf]

Decision made!! I ordered the PN-20 yesterday (refurbished version) and thanks to speedy shipping, it arrived this afternoon. As soon as I got my little ones into bed, I was able to open it up and play with it. I'm very excited to learn how to use it. As soon as it picks up a signal....looks like I'll need to sit outside with my coat on...

 

Thanks for all your wisdom!

[+Hrethgir]

Decision made!! I ordered the PN-20 yesterday (refurbished version) and thanks to speedy shipping, it arrived this afternoon. As soon as I got my little ones into bed, I was able to open it up and play with it. I'm very excited to learn how to use it. As soon as it picks up a signal....looks like I'll need to sit outside with my coat on...

 

Thanks for all your wisdom!

 

Congrats, you'll really like the PN-20! It's a little slow, and don't bother trying to get a lock indoors (in the car seemed fine), but once it's got a lock, it works really well, and you'll get plenty of good use out of it! And don't worry so much about the error percentage (+/- xx feet), sometimes it will go up when you get under trees, but it still seems to know right where you are anyways. One time, I was looking for a cache, and it was under a big tree. When I stepped under the tree, the error went from about 12 feet to 26 feet, but the distance to the cache at one point said I was 0.25 feet from it. And it was right on, turned out it was attached to the bottom of the bleachers I was sitting on, so even though the error went up, it still had me literally sitting ON the cache. Can't wait to get a PN-40!