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Colorado Barometer not recording data during Power Off


yogazoo
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How many different versions of the Colorado firmware are there? The 15 minute while OFF recording probably does work on some of those older versions. But perhaps other things do not work on those older versions.

Can't speak to the barometer working or not, but you had at least the following:

2.30/2.30 (at least, I think the chipset was 2.30). Originally shipped with early units.

2.40/2.60 First publicly available update (via web updater or download)

2.50/2.60 Shipped with newer units from the factory. Never available as an update.

2.51b/2.60 Beta available for direct download, not web updater.

2.54b/2.60 Beta available for direct download, not web updater.

2.60/2.60 Available update (via web updater or download)

 

Believe us all, a lot of things important to cachers failed to work in 2.30 and 2.40. Don't go there.

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How many different versions of the Colorado firmware are there? The 15 minute while OFF recording probably does work on some of those older versions. But perhaps other things do not work on those older versions.

Can't speak to the barometer working or not, but you had at least the following:

2.30/2.30 (at least, I think the chipset was 2.30). Originally shipped with early units.

2.40/2.60 First publicly available update (via web updater or download)

2.50/2.60 Shipped with newer units from the factory. Never available as an update.

2.51b/2.60 Beta available for direct download, not web updater.

2.54b/2.60 Beta available for direct download, not web updater.

2.60/2.60 Available update (via web updater or download)

 

Believe us all, a lot of things important to cachers failed to work in 2.30 and 2.40. Don't go there.

 

The version that shipped on the first units was 2.1/2.5 (Colorado never saw the 2.3 GPS software that worked on the HCx)

Then there was 2.3/2.6 and then 2.4/2.6

 

Details here.

 

GO$Rs

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Thanks. Couldn't remember the original chipset f/w version. Pretty sure I got a unit with 2.3/2.5 in early February, but it's been a long time and I updated it immediately to 2.4/2.6. So I could be hallucinating. I do have a backup of the unit as it came out of the box. Too bad I don't have the nerve to restore it. Of course, since I've never seen the drift, it wouldn't prove anything. And I don't care enough about the barometer to risk the experiment.

Edited by twolpert
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To answer your question, YES, the Colorado IS supposed to plot DYNAMIC pressure data, every 15 minutes, even when off.

As stated in the manual of course.

 

Actually, it doesn't state that at all. Colorado 400t Manual

 

One cannot assume that just because the 60Csx performs a certain way, the Colorado should too. They are two entirely different units. Furthermore, on what basis do you claim that it is saving dynamic data? You cannot reference each point to view the data...as you cycle through the variable range of Time (45min, 1hrs, 3hrs, 6hrs, 12hrs) the timestamp of each "data point" changes in range accordingly. I believe that the Colorado takes the data and calculates the current trend, as you cycle back along the history you are viewing points that were generated to form the trend line...not the actual data recorded.

 

An explanation from Garmin concerning how this function of the Colorado is designed to perform and display data would certainly be helpful.

Edited by s20055
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To answer your question, YES, the Colorado IS supposed to plot DYNAMIC pressure data, every 15 minutes, even when off.

As stated in the manual of course.

 

Actually, it doesn't state that at all. Colorado 400t Manual

 

One cannot assume that just because the 60Csx performs a certain way, the Colorado should too. They are two entirely different units. An explanation from Garmin concerning how this function of the Colorado is designed to perform and display data would certainly be helpful.

Did you read p. 32 of the manual?

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Did you read p. 32 of the manual?

 

You're not serious...really?

 

"...to continuously save pressure trend data."

"Pressure Trending-"(this is the sub-heading before it goes on to state...) "select Save Always to record pressure data every 15 minutes, even when the Colorado is turned off. Select Save When Power On to record data only when the Colorado is turned on."

 

The Owner's Manual does not tell us how that data is going to be displayed, but trending can be inferred I think. The current value of Barometric Pressure (or Ambient Pressure) can be selected in one or both of the Data Fields displayed on the top of the screen. This is the only real-time value, IMHO.

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Actually, it doesn't state that at all. Colorado 400t Manual

 

 

What do the words "every 15 minutes" mean to you? Does it mean every hour? does it mean every 8 or 12 hours? Do you understand the nature of barometric pressure at all? Do you get that, if you are recording pressure data every 15 minutes, you will NEVER get a perfectly linear line over an 8 hour period. N-E-V-E-R. And since the Colorado says it records every 15 minutes even when the power is OFF, and all you get is a linear line, the function clearly does not work.

 

I really don't even think you understand fully what issue were talking about here. It's the recording of data when the unit is OFF that doesn't work.

Edited by yogazoo
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Answer me this (Mr. :unsure: ) how is the data displayed on the screen (we're talking about the Colorado)? How is the data sampled when powered on (what interval)? Obviously, as Garmin states the data is sampled every 15 min when powered off...when that option is selected. Certainly there is a problem if the value just decreases to zero...

 

I'm just saying that all the evidence points to trending data, not dynamic values.

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Answer me this (Mr. :mad: ) how is the data displayed on the screen (we're talking about the Colorado)? How is the data sampled when powered on (what interval)? Obviously, as Garmin states the data is sampled every 15 min when powered off...when that option is selected. Certainly there is a problem if the value just decreases to zero...

 

I'm just saying that all the evidence points to trending data, not dynamic values.

 

It's all about resolution. You can have two points show a trend, with every x-axis value (time) in between those two points being averaged as to it's y-axis (pressure) value. The more plots or samples you have along your line the more resolute your data set will be. So instead of smoothing over a whole nights worth of data (which is what the Colorado series does now, contrary to what the manual states.) you will see the increase and decrease (variation) of barometric pressure represented on the plot through snapshots of pressure data every 15 minutes.

 

Lets say someone goes to bed and the weather is clear. They wake up 8 hours later and the weather is still clear, not a cloud in the sky. They noticed absolutly NO change in the weather from the time they went to bed until the time they woke up. They would assume that the weather was clear all night long. Essentially averaging the weather overnight.

 

Now lets say that same person woke up every 15 minutes and noticed that after a short time a storm blew in and clouded up the sky. Every 15 minutes throughout the night he wakes up and takes note of the weather. Clouds, rain, wind, clearing, more clouds, clearing and on and on and on. This persons idea of the nights weather is very different than the first persons. Bedtime and morning were the same for both but the person who woke up every 15 minutes noticed alot more variation in the evenings weather.

 

This is what we're talking about here, the Colorado doesn't wake up to plot what it's sees every 15 minutes as it's supposed to. Instead, it's the guy who goes to bed (power off) and doesn't wake up until morning (power on). ;)

Edited by yogazoo
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What do the words "every 15 minutes" mean to you? Does it mean every hour? does it mean every 8 or 12 hours? Do you understand the nature of barometric pressure at all? Do you get that, if you are recording pressure data every 15 minutes, you will NEVER get a perfectly linear line over an 8 hour period. N-E-V-E-R. And since the Colorado says it records every 15 minutes even when the power is OFF, and all you get is a linear line, the function clearly does not work.

 

I really don't even think you understand fully what issue were talking about here. It's the recording of data when the unit is OFF that doesn't work.

 

I understand that my Colorado 400t wakes up approximately every 15 min and samples data, at least that is what I assume it is doing when the screen flashes briefly. When I checked this morning it displayed barometric pressure trending upwards. I checked this against the local weather station data and the two coincide. It is impossible to check individual data plots, since those are not displayed (whether they are recorded while the unit is off or on). The only real time data is displayed constantly in one or both of the User-configurable data fields.

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What would be the point, or the logic, in recording a reading every 15 minutes if the plot were going to disregard all the readings between power off and power on and just connect the outside points? Your defence of Garmin in this issue ignores the reasoning for taking 15 minute readings. If you are happy with connecting the outside points with a straight line, then enjoy. Those who want plots showing 15 minute readings have every right to complain!

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s20055,

 

I'm not sure if you're sure of your argument. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that there's no problem here at all? Are you saying that everyone else here is wrong and somehow you've seen the light? Did the ghost of GPS's past visit you in your sleep and show you the way?

 

I've tried to break it down for you in an earlier post. I'm sorry you still do not seem to have gotten it. You're wrong on at least a few things every post. Example, "It is impossible to check individual data plots, since those are not displayed (whether they are recorded while the unit is off or on)." You're wrong, you CAN see the plots every 15 minutes graphically displayed on the plot. What are you talking about.

 

You have to be screwing with us, right?

Edited by yogazoo
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s20055,

 

I'm not sure if you're sure of your argument. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that there's no problem here at all? Are you saying that everyone else here is wrong and somehow you've seen the light? Did the ghost of GPS's past visit you in your sleep and show you the way?

 

I've tried to break it down for you in an earlier post. I'm sorry you still do not seem to have gotten it. You're wrong on at least a few things every post. Example, "It is impossible to check individual data plots, since those are not displayed (whether they are recorded while the unit is off or on)." You're wrong, you CAN see the plots every 15 minutes graphically displayed on the plot. What are you talking about.

 

You have to be screwing with us, right?

 

I'm talking about the fact that while looking at the graphic display of my plot, with the time variable set to 45min, starting at 9:00PM I can cycle through the previous points of data in 3min intervals (you can do this using the thumb wheel). Why is that yogi? Also, as a point of information, the unit has been off all day and sampling data (supposedly every 15 min). Shouldn't I only be able to cycle through previous points of data in 15min intervals given that is the rate at which the data was sampled while the unit was off? Furthermore, if I change the time variable to 1hr I can cycle through the previous points of data in 8min intervals. As I continue to increase the time variable, the interval between points of data which I can view continues to increase.

 

If the Colorado is plotting and graphically displaying dynamic data (I assume you mean real-time sampled values), shouldn't those be the only values that I should be able to view?

 

I'm not pursuing an argument here. I merely asked the question as to whether the Colorado samples data and then takes all of the values, or possibly groups of values depending on which variable of time you select (45min,1,3,6 or 12hrs) and calculates a trend-line for that period of time to the present. The values plotted would then be the values that make the trend line, not the actual values sampled. Not suggesting that this is the right or wrong way to do it, just trying to understand what is being displayed. It seems to me that if they were going to do this, you would plot the actual data and then draw a trend line as an overlay to the graphic plot...

 

On a more personal note, chill out a little.

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If the Colorado is plotting and graphically displaying dynamic data (I assume you mean real-time sampled values), shouldn't those be the only values that I should be able to view?

 

 

No, the reason you're able to view data at 3 minute intervals is because the unit averages the data between the actual recorded data points, which, as explained to you before, happen every 15 minutes. I explained what data resolution means in an earlier post. Aside from explaining mathematical theories about how to plot data,I don't know what else to say.

 

Chill out? You came into this thread with a tone that was very condescending. Essentially, you tried to tell us that we didn't have a problem and we simply didn't understand the nature of the data we were looking at or the intended function of the GPS. I patiently tried to explain it to you, again, and again, and again. Sorry, it's a little frustrating, especially after realizing the exact opposite was true. You also tried to tell us that the manual says nothing of how often the data is recorded or how it's supposed to work, again wrong, and again frustrating. There are excellent posts in this thread that explain this feature of the GPS and you obviously have not read them.

 

The topic of the post is essentially this: Barometer doesn't plot data every 15 minutes when powered off. The reality is that it doesn't. The reality is that it's supposed to.

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Yep, Garmin knows about it and is working on it. This is an email I received.

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I'm happy to assist you wih this. As this is a known issue the

engineers are currenly working on a fix for this to be released in the

next software update. For the rock wheel acting jumpy, you should take

off the top rubber attachment and blow some compressed air into it.

This should take care of it.

 

With Best Regards,

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It's just interpolating data between readings or power on/power off that's why you can "zoom in" and look at 3min intervals. I don't think the fact that the function is broken is even an argument here. Many of my few posts on these forums are in defense of a product that I think gets more flak than it deserves but this is a feature that IS broken and NEEDS to be fixed!

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It's just interpolating data between readings or power on/power off that's why you can "zoom in" and look at 3min intervals. I don't think the fact that the function is broken is even an argument here. Many of my few posts on these forums are in defense of a product that I think gets more flak than it deserves but this is a feature that IS broken and NEEDS to be fixed!

AND possibly related to this function (if it worked) is something really serious I read about in another thread... If the batteries runout while the unit is turned off the system software gets messed up and the unit will not turn on (properly or at all?) when new batteries are installed. Did I get my facts wrong and this situation does not exist? Otherwise, is this an issue experienced by others here or being worked on by Garmin? This of course wouldn't happen overnight with a fresh set of batteries. I'm talking about the situation where one overlooks the condition.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Ratsneve
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No, the reason you're able to view data at 3 minute intervals is because the unit averages the data between the actual recorded data points, which, as explained to you before, happen every 15 minutes. I explained what data resolution means in an earlier post. Aside from explaining mathematical theories about how to plot data,I don't know what else to say.

 

Chill out? You came into this thread with a tone that was very condescending. Essentially, you tried to tell us that we didn't have a problem and we simply didn't understand the nature of the data we were looking at or the intended function of the GPS. I patiently tried to explain it to you, again, and again, and again. Sorry, it's a little frustrating, especially after realizing the exact opposite was true. You also tried to tell us that the manual says nothing of how often the data is recorded or how it's supposed to work, again wrong, and again frustrating. There are excellent posts in this thread that explain this feature of the GPS and you obviously have not read them.

 

The topic of the post is essentially this: Barometer doesn't plot data every 15 minutes when powered off. The reality is that it doesn't. The reality is that it's supposed to.

 

Any tone you perceive is purely your own invention, sorry. I've only asked a few questions and backed them up with the information supplied in the Owner's Manual (not a very comprehensive manual, IMHO). I didn't try to tell you anything, other than to state that making a comparison to the 60Csx might not be accurate when stating expectations on performance.

 

In light of your previous comments, what I think you are trying to tell me now is that the Garmin Colorado plots dynamic data and that in between those 'real-time' plotted data values (which occur every 15 min, ON or OFF) the Colorado interpolates a calculated (or averaged) value. Since I can see that you have an open mind, try this next time you are looking at the plot...select the last value and then observe over the course of several minutes as the Colorado appends data points to the trend. They occur at least every minute, or perhaps sooner (but we lack the resolution to confirm that).

 

I've tried to break it down for you in an earlier post. I'm sorry you still do not seem to have gotten it. You're wrong on at least a few things every post. Example, "It is impossible to check individual data plots, since those are not displayed (whether they are recorded while the unit is off or on)." You're wrong, you CAN see the plots every 15 minutes graphically displayed on the plot. What are you talking about."

 

By individual data points, I mean actual sensor-recorded values. Please, break it down for me just a little bit further if you would (just take a deep breath and try to stay calm). How do you know which ones are the actual, sensor-recorded values and which ones were interpolated (or averaged)? This is with the Power ON. Likewise, how do you know which values were real-time sensor readings with the Power Off? Don't tell me it's because the data is linear...averaging points in between 15 minute samples could give you that.

 

At night, I assume that when the unit flashes the screen (like others on this forum) it is taking a reading. This does occur approximately every 15 minutes. If it didn't add points in between the sensro-recorded values or, if you could view only the sensor-recorded values it might be an improvement. At least we would know what it is that we are viewing and if the unit is working correctly, or not.

 

Also, looking at a 12-hour history, observe how the shape of the plotted data changes when you switch the Barometer Mode between Fixed Elevation/Variable Elevation. I understand the difference between the two modes and when to use them...but the difference in the shape of the plotted data is...I have no explanation for it (It doesn't seem to correlate with elevation).

 

What is lacking from Garmin is a clear explanation of how the Barometric Pressure features are designed to work on the Garmin Colorado...other than the very few details in the Owner's Manual. I have asked Garmin for that information and will post whatever response I get from them.

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WHat you should do,and this would be very helpful, is to get your hands on a 60CS (not a CSX) and get to know it's barometric pressure functions. In this case, the features are (were) implemented perfectly. This is how the Colorado's barometer functions are advertised and how it should work. I used a 60CS for years and knew it like the back of my hand, This is one reason for my sensitivity of the current barometer problems.

 

One can tell where the Colorado takes a point because the plotted average (linear line) will generally change trajectory from the recorded point to the next point. Because of the highly variable nature of barometric pressure, it is extremely rare to have a linear line beyond an averaged 15 minute period. So you will be able to see the exact time the unit plotted the sensor data because of the obvious angle or change in the averaged line trajectory. This is the variation or change in plotted trajectory that is missing in the data that's supposedly recorded overnight. I know the units kick on and light up every 15 minutes or so when powered off but it fails to do one of two things either 1) the sensor fails to take a reading, or 2) the unit fails to record the data and plot it in the graph.

 

I agree about the "Fixed" vs "Variable" elevation plots and I really think there is a problem with the way the data is plotted. The fixed mode plot looks nothing like it should. For me anyways it's just plain funky, not really correlating to anything that makes sense. It may just be that Garmin implemented the Barometer extremely poorly in the Colorado and have yet to fix any of it because of more serious problems with the more basic functions of the unit.

 

Finally, you DID seem to insinuate that the manual makes no mention of any time interval between data plots when powered off. I agree with your point that the manual is very spotty and lacks alot of detailed information. Perhaps, but the information on the function of the Barometer is crystal clear, at least to an old 60CS user.

Edited by yogazoo
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This thread is very close to getting closed. I will leave it open as long as the attitudes tone down somewhat. Honestly guys its a GPS not the end of the world. Don't get so wrapped up in a silly function. It either works or it doesn't. Chances are its in the middle of everyones understanding. Please keep it polite in here and tone it down a little

Thanks.

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The first thing I am going to do when this dynamic trend data when unit is Off is fixed/working is to run the unit long enough with a largely spent battery set to see what happens to the unit when power is lost when the unit has been Off. I could easily see why this system software loss, if true, would be a much more serious problem to contend with and might be why, even, that Garmin has left dynamic trending when unit is Off disabled on purpose.

 

Michael, since you have the only dynamic trending while Off working unit would you like to try the experiment with an almost dead set of batteries? After ~8 hours of pressure trending while Off have you noticed any drop at all in battery condition?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Ratsneve
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The first thing I am going to do when this dynamic trend data when unit is Off is fixed/working is to run the unit long enough with a largely spent battery set to see what happens to the unit when power is lost when the unit has been Off. I could easily see why this system software loss, if true, would be a much more serious problem to contend with and might be why, even, that Garmin has left dynamic trending when unit is Off disabled on purpose.

I believe I've only seen one post complaining of the loss of system software after the batteries ran down. Although I can't find the post, I am also pretty sure that another, and perhaps more signficant, factor was that the problem was tangled up with the upgrade to 2.60. I rather suspect that we'd see a lot more posts if the unit was bricked every time somebody let the batteries run down.

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The first thing I am going to do when this dynamic trend data when unit is Off is fixed/working is to run the unit long enough with a largely spent battery set to see what happens to the unit when power is lost when the unit has been Off. I could easily see why this system software loss, if true, would be a much more serious problem to contend with and might be why, even, that Garmin has left dynamic trending when unit is Off disabled on purpose.

I believe I've only seen one post complaining of the loss of system software after the batteries ran down. Although I can't find the post, I am also pretty sure that another, and perhaps more signficant, factor was that the problem was tangled up with the upgrade to 2.60. I rather suspect that we'd see a lot more posts if the unit was bricked every time somebody let the batteries run down.

Except that this would be very rare now if there is no working function continuing to drain the batteries when the unit is turned Off. There is/was talk of seeing screen flashes when the unit is Off when barometric data was allegedly being taken?

 

Are there any other CO functions that cause any current drain when the unit is Off?

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Here is my question to Garmin Tech Support (I wanted to keep it specific and short):

 

Subject:

Barometer Pressure Trend Data

Message Body:

What is the frequency at which the Colorado 400t samples

barometric/ambient pressure data? How is that data displayed? Is the

actual data point sampled plotted on the graphic display, or is a trend

line calculated using the current and previous sample values and then

plotted on the screen?

 

;) Here is the response I received from the Tech:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

There is not a specific frequency that barometric pressure is measured,

it just measures the pressure changes to show a change in elevation.

The pressure is relative to the current conditions, which is why they

unit will sometimes need to be calibrated.

 

As for the data display, the unit shows a graph for either pressure and

elevation plots and tracks and saves the elevation in the track log.

 

With Best Regards,

(Contact info and Techie name removed to protect his identity)

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Here is my question to Garmin Tech Support (I wanted to keep it specific and short):

 

Subject:

Barometer Pressure Trend Data

Message Body:

What is the frequency at which the Colorado 400t samples

barometric/ambient pressure data? How is that data displayed? Is the

actual data point sampled plotted on the graphic display, or is a trend

line calculated using the current and previous sample values and then

plotted on the screen?

 

;) Here is the response I received from the Tech:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

There is not a specific frequency that barometric pressure is measured,

it just measures the pressure changes to show a change in elevation.

The pressure is relative to the current conditions, which is why they

unit will sometimes need to be calibrated.

 

As for the data display, the unit shows a graph for either pressure and

elevation plots and tracks and saves the elevation in the track log.

 

With Best Regards,

(Contact info and Techie name removed to protect his identity)

That really clears everything up!

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Here is my question to Garmin Tech Support (I wanted to keep it specific and short):

 

Subject:

Barometer Pressure Trend Data

Message Body:

What is the frequency at which the Colorado 400t samples

barometric/ambient pressure data? How is that data displayed? Is the

actual data point sampled plotted on the graphic display, or is a trend

line calculated using the current and previous sample values and then

plotted on the screen?

 

;) Here is the response I received from the Tech:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

There is not a specific frequency that barometric pressure is measured,

it just measures the pressure changes to show a change in elevation.

The pressure is relative to the current conditions, which is why they

unit will sometimes need to be calibrated.

 

As for the data display, the unit shows a graph for either pressure and

elevation plots and tracks and saves the elevation in the track log.

 

With Best Regards,

(Contact info and Techie name removed to protect his identity)

That really clears everything up!

I think that your message should be re-sent as many times as it takes to get some sort of meaningful

answer. Even the stated location of where the data is stored, is (at least in my mind) still in question.

If Go$ers couldn't find it there, it must be "cloaked" like a Klingon.

 

Norm

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I did respond with the following:

 

Your reply is disappointing as I was hoping for a little more detailed explanation. I would like to direct you to this thread:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=198432

 

I hope to receive a more detailed explanation concerning the barometric pressure function of the Garmin Colorado 400t in your next response. I realize that it is used for elevation, but I believe that it was also designed to be used as a barometer. Please elaborate on how this feature should work and explain the data reporting and graphic display functions in more detail. How should it sample and display data while ON, as well as OFF.

 

Thank you,

-Scott

 

My expectations might be a little high, but c'mon...

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Instead of "Frequency" you might ask, "How often does the 400T get its sample? Once per hour, once per 15 minutes, every minute? How often does it sample the barometric pressure"?

 

Sometimes it helps to be ultra simple when asking a question. I understood what you meant. It looks like the tech did not.

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Instead of "Frequency" you might ask, "How often does the 400T get its sample? Once per hour, once per 15 minutes, every minute? How often does it sample the barometric pressure"?

 

Sometimes it helps to be ultra simple when asking a question. I understood what you meant. It looks like the tech did not.

 

I took your advice and here is the text of my follow-up and Garmin's response:

 

Your reply is disappointing as I was hoping for a little more detailed explanation. I would like to direct you to this thread:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...72305ccc2f31b2e

6&showtopic=198432

 

I hope to receive a more detailed explanation concerning the barometric pressure function of the Garmin Colorado 400t in your next response. I realize that it is used for elevation, but I believe that it was also designed to be used as a barometer. Please elaborate on how this feature should work and explain the data reporting and graphic display functions in more detail. How should it sample and display data while ON, as well as OFF.

 

Thank you,

-Scott

 

PS. More specifically, how often does the Colorado 400t sample barometric pressure...once per hour, every 15 minutes, every minute? Does it save and plot each time it samples? Does it make a difference if the unit is off or on when sampling and plotting barometric pressure and, if so, could you elaborate on the differences?

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I will provide as much information as I have, but much of the information you are looking for I do not have.

 

The data samples once a second. It checks the ambient pressure in millibars to show a change in elevation. The information is stored in the track log and is displayed in graph form with multiple ways to view the information. In regards to detailed technical information, I do not have this information available to me.

 

With Best Regards,

 

I also checked my recorded data to a local weatherstation which is just down the road from my house. It matches what the Colorado is drawing both while ON, and while OFF with vary little variation. I've checked it over the course of two 12-hour periods and feel pretty comfortable with it now. Sometimes, when I first turn the unit back on and check the plot it will show a sharp downward spike. After about 5 minutes it corrects itself (not sure what causes the spike). Weather Underground will allow you to search for a weather station near by which will allow you to do your own verification. Here is a link: Weather Underground.

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A linear line between two points 8 hours apart still indicates that mine still doesn't work. Unless you see variation in the plotted data recorded while power was off, it doesn't work. If you see variation, congratulations, you are the second person known to have a working unit.

 

Michael has posted example plots that show this variation, and to my knowledge, is the only person among a vast majority, that has a properly working unit. Could S20055 be number two? I'd be interested in seeing your "power off" data plots. Think you could post them?

 

Also, addressing the response from Garmin, there are two potentially confusing statements.

 

1) "The data samples once per second." - True, but it only plots on the graph once per 15 minutes.

 

2) "The information is stored in the tracklog and is stored in graph form..." - True, but you don't need the tracklog on to plot barometric pressure as you must for the elevation plot. For some reason Garmin made the elevation plot dependent on the tracklog data, however the barometer plot is on its own. In short, the barometer plot and elevation plot are entirely seperate entities.

Edited by yogazoo
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Also, addressing the response from Garmin, there are two potentially confusing statements.

 

1) "The data samples once per second." - True, but it only plots on the graph once per 15 minutes.

 

2) "The information is stored in the tracklog and is stored in graph form..." - True, but you don't need the tracklog on to plot barometric pressure as you must for the elevation plot. For some reason Garmin made the elevation plot dependent on the tracklog data, however the barometer plot is on its own. In short, the barometer plot and elevation plot are entirely seperate entities.

I think one of the problems is that the question to Garmin did not say anything about the "Power Off" mode, so the response was probably only addressing the normal power on operation.

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Yogazoo, I'll try and get it together to post some plots. The barometric pressure does not change dramatically in our part of the Country, but what I'll do is try to post some trend data from a nearby weather station for comparison. A suggestion: (I wouldn't normally advocate doing this, but...) In light of your past experiences with Garmin RMA's, have you considered dropping the dime (again, I know) on a new unit and then swapping them out...returning the defective unit for a full refund? At least you could avoid any possiblility of receiving a previously defective unit that was refurbished.

 

Yes, I agree that Garmin tech support is lacking...at best geared for the 'average' consumer. I still view unexplained sharp downward spikes (while powered OFF) which do correct after several minutes with the unit powered ON. This is associated with Barometric Pressure, not Ambient Pressure...so perhaps it is dependent upon elevation and a position lock?

 

If you observe the plotted data in 'real-time' you will see that data is plotted more frequently than every 15 minutes while the unit is powered ON. I think that it is a 'given' that the Colorado was designed to sample every 15 min (as stated in the manual) while powered OFF. I believe this is what 'should be' occurring when the screen flashes while the unit is powered OFF and the "save always" option is selected.

 

What is unknown, is whether an additional calculation (based on previous data and current data) is being made before the values are plotted. In other words, are they trying to show a "trend" or are they intending to display the actual, 'real-time' raw data values. I believe this is the case with Ambient Pressure, but I'm not so sure with Barometric Pressure. The Garmin Tech as much as admitted this was beyond the scope of his responsibility...Understandable.

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I think one of the problems is that the question to Garmin did not say anything about the "Power Off" mode, so the response was probably only addressing the normal power on operation.

 

I was more specific in my follow-up question. However, I think the answer exceeds the scope of 'standard' Garmin support.

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In other words, are they trying to show a "trend" or are they intending to display the actual, 'real-time' raw data values. I believe this is the case with Ambient Pressure, but I'm not so sure with Barometric Pressure.

 

Me thinks were making this sound alot more complicated than it really is. Muddying the waters, if you will, by assigning terms.

 

REAL-TIME:

If you have a data field selected to display Barometric Pressure it will show you the "real-time" number of what the pressure is. Experiment; place your unit inside a zip-lock bag, close alot of air inside when you zip it up. Now, take your hand and apply pressure to the bag, you will see the numbers in the pressure data-field adjust instantaneously.

 

TREND:

The plot or graph of the pressure, on the other hand, is a TREND-line drawn to connect data log events that occur every 15 minutes. What you observe as a "trend" is simply a logged history of real-time data that occurs every 15 minutes with a line connecting them. If you take that line away you would see evenly spaced points along the X-axis (time), that vary along the Y-axis(pressure) according to changes in pressure. The GPS simply draws a line to connect those points and vwalla, you have the graph of your pressure history.

 

This logged history is useful in observing weather trends such as an upward trend (high pressure) which means the weather is improving, a downward trend (low pressure) may mean the weather is worsening.

 

AMBIENT VS BAROMETRIC:

Barometric Pressure is simply Ambient Pressure adjusted for elevation. To get the Barometric Pressure, the GPS adds the correct calculated atmospheres to the ambient pressure according to it's elevation. Think of "Ambient Pressure" as RAW data from the sensor. The Barometric Pressure is Ambient Pressure adjusted for elevation which provides a constant for weather stations and weather data.

 

I hope this helps. :(

Edited by yogazoo
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This has been a very interesting post to read. Thanks to everyone for the info. To add my experience, it seems that my unit displays a complex set of behaviors depending on the situation. If I turn the unit off with the pressure trending set to "save always" it will do one of three things.

 

In the first scenario, if I turn it back on before too much time has passed, say less than 12 hours, it will connect the last point taken while the unit was on and connect it with the most recently taken point after turning on, thus creating a straight line between the two points.

 

In the second scenario, if I turn the unit back on after more time has passed, there are no data points taken whatsoever. There is nothing to scroll back through with the Rock 'n' Roller wheel.

 

In the third scenario, the pressure will randomly and rapidly trend down to a spurious point with a value somewhere between 0 and 1 millibars in a straight, perhaps "averaged" line.

 

Additionally, I cannot reset the data as previously mentioned in this post. The data remains even after hard reset and regardless of profile. I have also seen the delayed processing in version 2.60 that tries to correct the faulty data someone mentioned as well. In one case, I saw it hide the spuriously low point beneath an "averaged" straight line, but upon zooming in on the X (time) scale, the false low point could still be seen. Zooming back out hid the point, again.

 

I've contacted Garmin a couple of times and been told they are trying to set up "testing" with some of their units to actually see the problem.

 

This is very disappointing, because I, too, sold my 60CS and bought the Colorado under the guise that it finally had a barometer that would plot a trend while turned off. I don't need a straight line between two points. I can do that in my head.

 

I need a product that delivers what was promised to the average consumer in advertising. It shouldn't be tricky to understand what a company means when it says a product saves pressure while turned off. (Remember, for legal purposes, advertising is not about what an engineer or scientist thinks it means, it's about what the lay user understands it to mean.)

 

I'm inclined to think Garmin is not sure how to avert/resolve this crisis of failing to make good on their advertised promise as evidenced by--this is a problem, isnt a problem, is a problem. Every time I call they tell me they are looking into it. By the time they are done looking into it I'll have wasted an entire summer of outdoor adventures with a faulty unit. It's a poor business model and unacceptable.

 

If your pressure trending is not working, please call Garmin and tell them what you think. True, suggestions and comments may not be heard by every company, but revenue is. Defective units plus tech support equal lost revenue. Thanks for all the info. I'll chime in if I ever hear back from them.

Edited by Grasshoppa
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Interesting. Did you by any chance turn it off around 5:30am and back on around 3:30pm? That stretch looks completely linear and according to the weather station plot it looks like it should have continued to rise for a few more hours before falling.

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Looks like the classic flat lines connected by points during power on cycles. Unless you are saying that you hadn't turned the unit on at all for the 20 or so hour period. It looks like, and tell me if I'm wrong, but you turned the unit on, if only but a few minutes, multiple times during the shown plot. My guess would be that wherever you see a change in the trajectory of the plotted line, thats when you turned it on.

 

Linear lines for 10 hours, as apparent in your graph, just arent normal. Your graph may line up pretty well with the weather station but the pressure in your area was unusually steady during your test. I know what you were going for, you were trying to show how close to the weather station and that was good but if you increase the Y-axis resolution you should not see straight lines for the extensive time periods that appear to be present.

 

I hope your unit works, I really do. But, most people have units that absolutly do not work in this respect. As a former 60CS owner, I know Grasshoppa can attest to the malfunction of this feature in the Colorado's.

Garmin has acknowledged this to be problem and is working on a solution that I look forward to them including it in the next software update. We'll wait and see.

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Interesting. Did you by any chance turn it off around 5:30am and back on around 3:30pm? That stretch looks completely linear and according to the weather station plot it looks like it should have continued to rise for a few more hours before falling.

 

Nope. I am going to run another plot overnight tonight.

 

yogazoo, here is another barometric plot from the other weather station located near my house (they plot data every 5 seconds):

 

barometerplot.gif

 

Courtesy of Weather Underground.

Edited by s20055
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S20055, something doesn't look right with your barometric data. I would guess that there is something wrong at the station where your data is recorded. Take a look at this pressure plot from a calm sunny day. Look at the subtle variation, tiny changes and nooks in the graph. Somethings wrong with the graph from your area. The data looks like it comes from an inferior/faulty sensor. My guess is that the sensor where you live is only sensitive enough to detect larger changes but skips the smaller stuff. The graph below is indicative of what the GPS graph should look like. A linear line for 6 hours is NOT normal.

 

Here is a graph from Helena Montana for the 5th of August.

 

25ee3d5b-9fba-4718-87a6-19e38ef11a85.jpg

Notice, the longest linear data string is about an hour. Even though the weather was stable all day, there is still an INCREDIBLE amount of variation. The total fluctuation is barely +/-0.1hg yet you can still see a very high degree of fluctuation.

Edited by yogazoo
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A final word from Yogazoo on the matter (try to contain your sadness :) ):

 

It has become clear to me that there may be units that plot Baro-data when the unit is off. Ok, I get it, there may be some working units. It is apparant to me, judging by the posts in this and other threads and forums that the vast majority of units do not work as advertised.

 

I'm confident that most, if not all, of us here understand Barometric pressure and how it should look on the Colorado. Some people have units that work and others don't and I get the sense from both sides that there is a belief that the ones on the other side of the fence are wrong/don't understand what's going on.

 

Assumption? Some work, most don't. If your unit works, Kudos! You have the luxury that most of us don't, a properly logging pressure trend that records when the power is off. If your unit doesn't work but you think it does, Kudos again, you'll probably never know the difference. For those of us who are dissappointed in a feature that doesn't work as advertised, if you think it's a hardware issue, get a replacement from Garmin. If you think it's a software issue, hang in there for a few more updates.

 

Based on the assumption that there are working units out there, I believe it's a hardware failure. Some units working and some not with the same software/firmware is a diagnostic of a hardware failure.

 

I'll be calling Garmin to get another replacement unit tomorrow, until they get it right. :lol:

I didn't pay $600 for a stripped down 60CSX with a vibrant screen.

Edited by yogazoo
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My Oregon 300 seems to have a problem with this function as well. I set it up to track changes over night and when I viewed it this morning, it first looked as a success. The last seven hours did have a nice smooth plot.

 

However, after having admired it for a while I suddenly recognised the plot from the day before, only now it hade been given new time stamps indicating that it was new data.

 

I shut it down and let it sleep a couple of hours and then rechecked the plot. And according to the time stamps there was new data collected, but again, it was the same old graph marked up as new.

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