Datasheet Conundrum

[+TheBeanTeam]

Take a look at this datasheet for JS1011.

 

The original description does not refer at all to the mark that is mentioned in the first recovery.

 

Original Description

STATION DESCRIPTION

JS1011

JS1011'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1939 (FGJ)

JS1011'IN THE CITY OF SACRAMENTO ON THE ROOF OF THE 14-STORY CALIFORNIA

JS1011'STATE LIFE INSURANCE BUILDING AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF

JS1011'TENTH AND J STREETS. ACCESS TO ROOF IS BY ELEVATOR TO THE

JS1011'14TH FLOOR AND THENCE THROUGH A LOCKED DOOR TO A SERIES OF

JS1011'STAIRS ABOUT THREE FEET WIDE TO THE ROOF. KEY FOR DOOR IS

JS1011'OBTAINED FROM THE CUSTODIAN OF THE BUILDING. THE STATION

JS1011'MARK IS A 1-1/2 INCH BRASS PIN CEMENTED IN A SMALL HOLE

JS1011'IN THE TERRA COTTA TILE ROOF ON A CONCRETE BASE NEAR THE

JS1011'WEST END OF THE L-SHAPED ROOF. THE MARK IS 6.39 FEET FROM

JS1011'THE WEST EDGE, 4.79 FEET FROM THE SOUTH EDGE, AND 5.40 FEET

JS1011'FROM THE NORTH EDGE OF THE SLOPING INSIDE FACE OF THE

JS1011'6-FOOT SHEET-COPPER ORNAMENTAL FENCE WHICH SERVES AS A ROOF

JS1011'RAILING. REFERENCE MARK NO. 1 AND NO. 2 ARE SIMILAR TO THE

JS1011'STATION MARK, BEING SOME 6 INCHES INSIDE THE FENCE FACE

JS1011'ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDES RESPECTIVELY.

 

1st Recovery

STATION RECOVERY (1945)

JS1011

JS1011'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1945

JS1011'AT SACRAMENTO.

JS1011'AT SACRAMENTO, SACRAMENTO COUNTY, IN THE CENTER OF THE CITY PARK

JS1011'IN FRONT OF THE CITY HALL, IN THE TOP OF THE GRANITE CURBING

JS1011'AROUND THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE FOUNTAIN, AND ABOUT 2 FEET ABOVE

JS1011'THE GROUND. A STANDARD DISK, STAMPED 28.465 SACRAMENTO 1932.

 

I think the fountain mark may have never been introduced to the NGS even though the NGS is the one who made the 1st recovery and description. Another thought is that there were 2 PIDs that may have been merged somehow.

 

The subsequent recoveries do not mention this mark.

 

To make things more interesting there is a second PID with the same name with the same coordinates but the datasheet says it is unpublished. ??? JS4841

 

I can't figure out how to link to the datasheet or I would. I found it by using a Station Name search for the designation Sacramento in California. It listed the PIDs for Sacramento but the JS4841 listing says "fatal error no marks found" even though it lists the same coordinates at the bottom of the page.

 

I found the mark in question while vacationing in the area but the rooftop stations were not accessible. The building is vacant and undergoing remodel.

 

What do you think.

 

What exactly did I recover?

[+Harry Dolphin]

That certainly looks like two sheets merged into one.

The data sheet calls for:

JS1011_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK

JS1011_SETTING: 30 = SET IN A LIGHT STRUCTURE

JS1011_SP_SET: CURB

JS1011_STAMPING: 28.465 SACRAMENTO 1932

 

And that is what you found. The brass pin on top of the building was monumented in 1939, and has a completely different description. And is certainly a lot higher than 28.465 feet above sea level. Ineresting that all the later recoveries are for the brass pin.

On the other hand, the coordinates are accurate for a triangulation station, which the brass pin is. And the box score mentions the RMs.

Sounds like two pages got merged.

[NGS Surveyor]

I just sent the first post to the NGS database expert. I'll let you know what he has to say.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

[+TheBeanTeam]

I just sent the first post to the NGS database expert. I'll let you know what he has to say.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

 

Thanks much.

[+PFF]

I've found similar errors on occasion. For instance, when writing the description for the YANCEYVILLE GREEN WATER TANK (FY3396), they used the "to reach" for YANCEY (FY2331). And last Fall, I arrived at a triangulation station with calculated coordinates for all the reference marks--only to discover that the distances in the box score had the decimal points in the wrong place. Instead of being 3 meters from the station, the RM's were 30 meters away!

 

It just goes to show that even the professionals can have a bad Paperwork day!

 

-Paul-

Edited April 20, 2008 by PFF

[+m&h]

Yesterday we logged a mark in Sausalito (we saw it a few months ago, but it was raining so hard we didn’t want to go outside with the camera). It’s HT1070, and it appears that the original description was based partly on a sketch map that omitted orientation and got turned upside down:

 

HT1070'AT SAUSALITO, AT THE EAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF PINE AND

HT1070'CALEDONIA STREETS, SET VERTICALLY IN THE NORTHWEST BRICK FACE

HT1070'OF A BUILDING OCCUPIED BY THE CALEDONIA MARKET, 6.0 FEET NORTHEAST

HT1070'OF THE WEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING, AND 1.0 FOOT ABOVE THE

HT1070'SIDEWALK.

 

Actually, the mark is in the west corner of the intersection, in the southeast face of the building, 3.5 feet southwest of the east corner. True, turning the map 180 degrees won’t account for those extra two and a half feet, but the mark is out in the open, not to be missed because of that.

Edited April 22, 2008 by m&h

[+PFF]

it appears that the original description was based partly on a sketch map that omitted orientation and got turned upside down:

 

Now, if that had been a train station, I'd know the answer. I often find that depots have been jacked up and then rotated so they better serve their new purpose.

 

However, with your mark being mounted on the wall of a movie theater, I have to believe the building is in its original orientation. Theaters are pretty big structures!

 

All this assumes, of course, that your compass has not shifted its polarity!

 

-Paul-

 

One should not store his/her compass in the same bag as the magnetic-mount antenna for one's ham radio antenna. Ask me, sometime, how I know this.

[+Ernmark]

All this assumes, of course, that your compass has not shifted its polarity!

...in yet another thread hijack - the word on the street is that the Earth's magnetic field may actually be starting to shift polarity - see link (perhaps old news - this article's from '04...but interesting nonetheless)

[+TheBeanTeam]

The issue mentioned in the original post has been resolved.

 

There are now two separate PIDs in the NGS database with the designation Sacramento.

 

JS1011 & JS4841. Of course the geocaching page still shows the merged datasheets as JS1011 and is confusing as ever.

Edited June 12, 2008 by TheBeanTeam

[andylphoto]

it appears that the original description was based partly on a sketch map that omitted orientation and got turned upside down:

 

Now, if that had been a train station, I'd know the answer. I often find that depots have been jacked up and then rotated so they better serve their new purpose.

 

However, with your mark being mounted on the wall of a movie theater, I have to believe the building is in its original orientation. Theaters are pretty big structures!

 

All this assumes, of course, that your compass has not shifted its polarity!

 

-Paul-

 

One should not store his/her compass in the same bag as the magnetic-mount antenna for one's ham radio antenna. Ask me, sometime, how I know this.

 

Sounds like an interesting story, Paul. And while it probably isn't an every day occurrence, theaters do move on occasion. I remember reading about this one in the Detroit paper while it was going on--quite a feat. If memory serves, I recall reading that they had dozens (if not hundreds) of single "dually" wheels mounted on the bottom. Each set of wheels was computer controlled and could turn independently so the operator could precisely control the inch by inch movement. Makes me wonder if there happened to be a mark set in this structure.

 

See the third picture in this story & the paragraph right below that picture:

http://www.gemtheatre.com/history.html

 

Glad to see the original problem in this thread got solved.

[foxtrot_xray]

I think I found another .. datasheet error. On CK0649, "TIDAL 11 STA 1". According to the coords, it looks like it should be around here. However, the directions places it about 53 miles away, here.

 

Looking on a map of that area, there's mark CK1649, "H 67", and that has the identical first description, so, it appears that the datasheet info is correct, name coords, etc, but just has the wrong transcribed description.

 

Since Dave's overseas, I probably won't be able to get any help on it until after the weekend, but I plan on walking around there, maybe I'll see something. (I mean.. it's walking on the beach.. it can't be THAT bad, right?)

 

[Edit: Thanks to Bill for pointing out that I can't propery cut&paste links. ]

Edited June 19, 2008 by foxtrot_xray

[foxtrot_xray]

[Edit - dupe post. Forums timed out on me.]

Edited June 19, 2008 by foxtrot_xray