How many caches would there be...

[Mushtang]

If 95% of cachers liked these as little as TrailGaters, CoyoteRed, Briansnat, etc. do, and made an effort to avoid them as well as to reduce the number of these hides whenever possible, would there be so many in existence???

If we examine some facts we may be able to answer that:

1) It is very easy to hide these.

2) They are the lowest cost type of cache.

3) They require no thought.

4) They can be hidden on the way to the grocery store, Home Depot, or wherever the hider has to go already.

5) It is my observation that most of them are being hidden by a minority of people.

 

So I think a better metric would be how many people have hidden a few of these? Hiding a few would be more indicative that that person really likes those types.

So you're saying that because of your 5 reasons above, you hide LPCs even though you've voiced a strong dislike for them on several occasions? I doubt it.

When did I say that I hide them?

 

Anyhow, I've already stated that it doesn't matter how many like or dislike them because they are not going away. You guys think because they get logged a lot that they are the best. Think what you want. I don't care....

You don't hide them. That's my point. You suggested that they're hidden because of the 5 points above, I'm suggesting that despite those 5 points you've managed not to be a hider of LPCs.

 

See?

 

However, I've never once said that "they are the best". Now who is putting words in someone else's mouth?

Edited March 31, 2008 by Mushtang

[+TrailGators]

How many caches would there be..., ...if lamp posts had never been invented?

 

To answer the orginal question. About as many as we have now.

Exactly! If people didn't hide them there then they'd find another spot to drop their film cannister. What is the next easiest spot?

[+TrailGators]

You don't hide them. That's my point. You suggested that they're hidden because of the 5 points above, I'm suggesting that despite those 5 points you've managed not to be a hider of LPCs. See?

I listed some reasons why they are so prevalent. My theory is that the easier it is to do something, the more likely it is that more people will do it.

 

Anyhow, I don't mind expending more effort to increase the fun factor for finders of my caches. If you study all the caches on the Favorites lists, you'll find that most of those caches took a lot of effort/planning to place. I'm not suggesting that all hiders go this that extreme, but I still don't think that giving it a little more effort then driving to some parking lot and lifting up a lamp post skirt is not much to "ask." Note that I'm not demanding. I'm simply asking. Is that OK? I'll even say "Purdy please!"

Edited March 31, 2008 by TrailGators

[+tozainamboku]

If 95% of cachers liked these as little as TrailGaters, CoyoteRed, Briansnat, etc. do, and made an effort to avoid them as well as to reduce the number of these hides whenever possible, would there be so many in existence???

If we examine some facts we may be able to answer that:

1) It is very easy to hide these.

2) They are the lowest cost type of cache.

3) They require no thought.

4) They can be hidden on the way to the grocery store, Home Depot, or wherever the hider has to go already.

5) It is my observation that most of them are being hidden by a minority of people.

 

So I think a better metric would be how many people have hidden a few of these? Hiding a few would be more indicative that that person really likes those types.

So you're saying that because of your 5 reasons above, you hide LPCs even though you've voiced a strong dislike for them on several occasions? I doubt it.

When did I say that I hide them?

Of course that was Mushtang's point, if people really disliked LPCs your reasons wouldn't really justify that they hide them. They could hide caches that they liked to find/hide that were also

1. very easy to hide
   
2. are the lowest cost type to hide
   
3. require no thought other than "is this something I like to find/hide"
   
4. can be hidden on the way to the grocery store, Home Depot, or wherever the hider has to go already
   
5. are not being hidden by the majority of people
   

The problem is that there is no black and white here. While some people strongly dislike (I always get criticized when I say "hate") LPCs and others enjoy finding them very much (I guess I get criticized if I say "love" here too), most people are somewhere in between. There is a full spectrum of feelings about these caches. The number who want to ban them is probably now very small - people are realizing that others may view these caches differently and will allow others to hide what they like. The number who actively try to avoid these caches may be somewhat higher, though I suspect that it is still a small minority that always avoids these. Still other people will search for them on days when they can't get out to do a hike or when caching with friends who like them. These may not be their favorite cache hide but then they aren't caching in Lake Wobegon and don't expect every cache to be above average. Still others actively seek out LPCs because they are easy or convenient.

 

In your list of reasons why people hide LPCs you left out one obvious one. Perhaps some people want to have their cache found by many people. They know that LPCs get far more finds than a hike in the woods or even a cleverly hidden urban cache. Some people may hide caches to get long logs about how beautiful the view from the cache was and maybe even see pictures posted. Some may hide caches hoping to show up on someone's list of favorites caches. But why is it wrong to hide a cache that can be found by the most people?

[+drat19]

I know I'm going to regret wading back into one of these discussions after staying the heck out of the forums for so long, mostly because of these discussions, but here's my $.02:

 

(1) Any cacher's first LPC find: "Cool! I never thought about finding a cache in one of these! How clever!" (I readily admit that this was my reaction to my first LPC find. I would also point out that I logged DNFs on my first 3 LPC hunts before I finally figured out that one of those skirts could actually be lifted. Of course, this was back in '02 before this type of hide became so widespread...there really was a "creativity" to it back then.)

 

(2) Any cacher's first LPC hide: "Cool! I can hide one of these cheaply and easily and make a contribution to my caching community!"

 

(3) Same cacher placing several or many more LPC hides: "Cool! It cost me next to nothing to put these caches out, and people must like 'em because I get so many "Found it" Emails! I'll drive around and put out more!"

 

(4) Multiple cachers with the same mindset as (3) above: Results in pages and pages (and pages and pages) of these types of caches, giving newcomers to the game the impression that this type of hide is the "norm".

 

(5) Local cachers logging scads of LPC finds: "Cool! Look at how many quick and easy stats we're ringing up! If we keep running up our numbers, maybe we, too, can be deified in our regional caching forums, or at the next event!"

 

Things to know: I deem guardrail caches to be equivalent to LPCs in terms of their effects on the caching community at large...LPCs may "represent" the issue, but to me guardrail caches are no different. Nor are micros tossed into "any ol' bush".

 

I'm not going to argue what's wrong with LPC/guardrail hides and their effect on our game at large...my opinions on that are well documented. I'm just going to make this point: It's not that these types of hides EXIST; it's their PREVALENCE. And why are they so prevalent? These words: Cheap. Easy. Quick. Stats. Recognition/ego grat IN SOME CIRCLES for said stats.

 

And sadly, I agree with the majority now: If that's how folks want to play, who am I to stop them? (Longtime posters here know that was not always my position on this. I have since recognized that trying to change the game or its players is a losing battle...this is the price we all have paid for evolving from an "underground" game to a "mass market" game - a lowering of overall standards. And it's why I seldom play anymore.)

Edited March 31, 2008 by drat19

[+TrailGators]

The number who want to ban them is probably now very small - people are realizing that others may view these caches differently and will allow others to hide what they like.

What people really want is ban them from their own PQs. That why I like the way that Waymarking let's you pick and choose what you want.

 

In your list of reasons why people hide LPCs you left out one obvious one. Perhaps some people want to have their cache found by many people. They know that LPCs get far more finds than a hike in the woods or even a cleverly hidden urban cache. Some people may hide caches to get long logs about how beautiful the view from the cache was and maybe even see pictures posted. Some may hide caches hoping to show up on someone's list of favorites caches. But why is it wrong to hide a cache that can be found by the most people?

That is another reason and so is hiding an easy for the numbers cache. Anyhow, I didn't state that those were the only reasons. My point was that ease of hiding is a major factor. What is interesting is these other threads that complain about short logs or cut and paste logs. LPC logs probably get those types of logs more than any other type of cache. So if those people want better logs then they will have to adapt and a lot of them do. Finally, when did I ever say "it was wrong?" Edited March 31, 2008 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

TGB could you please fix your posts? I am having a hard time following them. You must be missing a "

" thing or something...

 

Done.

[+TrailGators]

TGB could you please fix your posts? I am having a hard time following them. You must be missing a "

" thing or something...

 

Done.

That was funny!

[+sbell111]

... You guys think because they get logged a lot that they are the best. ...

No one ever said that. However, the fact that many get placed, they get lots of finds, AND many of the logs for these finds express enjoyment leads me to believe that many people like these caches (even if they only like them in certain situations).

[+sbell111]

How many caches would there be..., ...if lamp posts had never been invented?

To answer the orginal question. About as many as we have now.

Exactly! If people didn't hide them there then they'd find another spot to drop their film cannister. What is the next easiest spot?

Before we had LPMs to complain about, we were complaining about gladware wrapped in soggy black plastic bags, hidden in ditches.

 

Seriously.

[+sbell111]

You don't hide them. That's my point. You suggested that they're hidden because of the 5 points above, I'm suggesting that despite those 5 points you've managed not to be a hider of LPCs. See?

I listed some reasons why they are so prevalent. My theory is that the easier it is to do something, the more likely it is that more people will do it. ...

My theory is that people hide caches that they would like to find. A corollary to that is that people hide caches that are similar to ones that they enjoyed finding. Edited April 1, 2008 by sbell111

[+Happy Humphrey]

Lamp post hides are virtually unknown in the UK (and in my limited experience, Europe). Nor is there an obvious equivalent. There are a few guard-rail hides but you'd have to work hard to find one so they are quite novel.

 

So, although I'm sorry for the OP with their local nuisance, I don't think that it's such a big problem generally.

[+TrailGators]

How many caches would there be..., ...if lamp posts had never been invented?

To answer the orginal question. About as many as we have now.

Exactly! If people didn't hide them there then they'd find another spot to drop their film cannister. What is the next easiest spot?

Before we had LPMs to complain about, we were complaining about gladware wrapped in soggy black plastic bags, hidden in ditches.

 

Seriously.

There will always be the bottom of the barrel. If LPCs ever went away then whatever was above them would be at the bottom...

[+drat19]

Before we had LPMs to complain about, we were complaining about gladware wrapped in soggy black plastic bags, hidden in ditches.

 

Seriously.

Very true! The difference is that it didn't take long for that type of hide to eventually "phase out". Not so the LPC and its equivalents (see my previous post above re equivalents).

[Clan Riffster]

So I think a better metric would be how many people have hidden a few of these?

I hid one!

ALWAYS Lame

 

OK, Back on topic...

I don't agree that the number of times a cache is logged is in any way indicative of its quality. The old adage, "Lotsa folks log 'em, they must be great" just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, that's kewl. My opinion on a particular caches' quality is not how many "TNLNSL" logs it gets, but how lengthy the logs typically are. While my experience is strictly limited to me, what I've found is that any cache with an average of more than 50 words per log is going to meet my rather peculiar caching aesthetic.

 

Prior to learning my way around PQ's, I would often find myself at the ground zero for a pretty pathetic hide. My most common response at that point was to simply walk away. Occasionally I would sign my name, depending on my mood. These stinkers have not been logged online yet, and probably never will be, primarily because of my personal logging criteria. If I can't find something good to say about a cache, then I don't like to say anything at all. My days of submitting 4 word found logs are over.

 

As for why folks find them? Three reasons I can think of off the top of my head. Again, just one ol' fat guys opinion:

1-) Someone who lives in a creativity vacuum can still gather unto themselves hordes of smileys by hunting for a bunch of carpy LPC's. Anything involving even a shred of mental effort must be avoided like the plague.

2-) Another aspect to logging carpy caches is when you are part of a group. In my opinion, the whole dynamic changes, and dashing from P&G to P&G can actually be kinda fun, depending on who you are with. Judging from what little I know of folks in here, I think I'd have a blast tooling around with the majority of y'all, regardless of what types of caches we were hunting.

3-) Some folks enjoy all hide types, and have fun anytime they are following the arrow on their GPSr.

[Mushtang]

I don't agree that the number of times a cache is logged is in any way indicative of its quality.

I don't agree either. I do, however, think that the number of times a cache is logged is indicative of the number of people that enjoyed finding.

 

This doesn't mean that it was their most favorite cache ever, or even most favorite of the day. But it does mean that a LOT of people are finding them.

 

If they were as meaningless a find as some people in the forums suggest, I don't think they'd be found nearly as often, and then they'd go the way of the tupperware in a black garbage bag.

 

My guess is that most cachers belong in your category 3 above. They enjoy finding the cache, but probably enjoy finding other kinds more.

[+briansnat]

I'm not going to argue what's wrong with LPC/guardrail hides and their effect on our game at large...my opinions on that are well documented. I'm just going to make this point: It's not that these types of hides EXIST; it's their PREVALENCE. And why are they so prevalent? These words: Cheap. Easy. Quick. Stats. Recognition/ego grat IN SOME CIRCLES for said stats.

 

I think you nailed my sentiments exactly.

[Clan Riffster]

I think that the number of times a cache is logged is indicative of the number of people that enjoyed finding.

Perhaps. I don't quite see it, but then, I don't live in your world. If I were to go back and log all those carpy hides I found, would that indicate that I enjoyed finding them? Or would it merely be a record of the fact that I could lift a lamp kilt and open a film canister?

 

In my book, words to the effect of "TNLNSL" or "Thanks for the hide!" doesn't quite equal words to the effect of "Oh my God! What an amazingly clever hide! I would've never thought of this in a million years! We didn't even know those skirts lifted up! Oh, Man! Geocaching is AWESOME!!! You learn something new every day! And this parking lot was simply wonderful! I was a mechanic for years, and since my retirement, I've really missed the odor of exhaust fumes. Thank you for a great trip down memory lane! We had quite a blast dodging all the soccer moms tearing about in their SUV's, and the increase in physical activity really helped slim my waist line! My grandson is studying to be an entomologist, and this cache offered the opportunity for him to study a cockroach upclose and personal. The cache itself was pure genius! Who would've thought of using a film canister as a cache! That's so environmentally friendly, you brought tears to my eyes. Just imagine how much more room we'd have in our landfills if everybody hid film canisters! MushTang, Sir, I gotta tell you, this cache has just made my list as the greatest, most wonderfullest cache ever hidden! Thank you so much for your incredible degree of creativity and thought which you obviously put into this hide."

 

I've only met a couple hundred cachers in real life, but the general consensus from them is, the greater the amount of effort put into creating the hide, the greater amount of effort they'll put into their find log. Great hides get great logs. Good hides get good logs. Carpy hides get "Thanks for the Hide!" if they get anything at all.

Edited March 31, 2008 by Clan Riffster

[+sbell111]

Sometimes, an LPM 'hits the spot'. Some people in this thread disagree and believe that LPMs are always horrible. For them, I'm sure this is true. Lots and lots of geocachers obviously disagree, however.

[+TrailGators]

I've only met a couple hundred cachers in real life, but the general consensus from them is, the greater the amount of effort put into creating the hide, the greater amount of effort they'll put into their find log. Great hides get great logs. Good hides get good logs. Carpy hides get "Thanks for the Hide!" if they get anything at all.

That agrees with the couple of hundred that I've met. The ones that find LPCs do it for a quick smiley. The smiley is what gives them enjoyment. They also enjoy clearing out an areas on their geo map. So they do it for that reason too. They all admit that LPCs barely move the needle on the excitement meter. I appreciate their honesty. When I'm with a group I don't mind stopping so they can find an LPC. I'm just not going to do it. Call it silly, but it's my own personal boycott. The funny part is that my friends know I don't like them and sometimes they teasingly sign my name in the logs. When they do that I'm 20 feet away rolling my eyes. We all have fun!

[Mushtang]

I think that the number of times a cache is logged is indicative of the number of people that enjoyed finding.

Perhaps. I don't quite see it, but then, I don't live in your world. If I were to go back and log all those carpy hides I found, would that indicate that I enjoyed finding them?

I think you just went a long way towards supporting my opinion. The fact is that you did NOT log them, because you did NOT enjoy them. The folks that don't like LPCs won't log them, and most won't even bother finding them when they realize what they're probably looking for.

 

Of course going back and logging them now wouldn't change the fact that you didn't enjoy it any more than changing your log in your favorite cache ever to TNLN would mean that you suddenly didn't like it. The very large number of people that DO log LPCs every day does mean that they're enjoying caching and they're enjoying these caches.

[+TrailGators]

The very large number of people that DO log LPCs every day does mean that they're enjoying caching and they're enjoying these caches.

I don't know how you can speak for "most" people. LPCs are a means to an end for many people. As I mentioned earlier, the smiley count and clearing out areas are strong motivators for many. That is what they enjoy. It's an achievement thing... Edited April 1, 2008 by TrailGators

[+Team GeoBlast]

Yeah, that was pretty much my point. I really, really didn't want to engage in another detailed examination of LPC popularity but I suppose I did make a statement that related to it and those never slip through undetected here. I know for a fact that my forum time will be much more peaceful when I am able to completely leave this topic alone. Not to that place just yet.

 

I wonder if I could rig my keyboard to administer an electric shock if I type LPC?

Well, for my part I'm willing to not respond to you if you give me a heads up. Just say, "Mushtang please don't reply, I'm not really interested in discussing this, I just want to give my opinion and not be challenged."

 

And then you can mention any facts or figures you want to make up to show that your opinion is valid, and I'll be happy to leave it alone knowing you're happy in your opinion. I'll be happy that you're happy.

 

No electric shock required.

 

Okay. I'll just be quiet now.

[Mushtang]

The very large number of people that DO log LPCs every day does mean that they're enjoying caching and they're enjoying these caches.

I don't know how you can speak for "most" people.

The online logs are speaking for them. I'm just referring to the very large number of online logs these things have.

 

LPCs are a means to an end for many people. As I mentioned earlier, the smiley count and clearing out areas are strong motivators for many. That is what they enjoy. It's an achievement thing...

Hey, that's a great example! Thanks.

 

Whatever aspect of caching brings pleasure, who am I to say what it should be? For some it's the chance to get off the couch, for others it's the swag, for some it's the chance to play with the GPS, for others it's the thrill of being brought to a great location.

 

As you said, for some it's fun to simply clear out an area and they'll enjoy finding all the caches in the area no matter what kind of hide. The achievement thing is a great example of how someone could enjoy caching.

[+TrailGators]

The very large number of people that DO log LPCs every day does mean that they're enjoying caching and they're enjoying these caches.

I don't know how you can speak for "most" people.

The online logs are speaking for them. I'm just referring to the very large number of online logs these things have.

 

LPCs are a means to an end for many people. As I mentioned earlier, the smiley count and clearing out areas are strong motivators for many. That is what they enjoy. It's an achievement thing...

Hey, that's a great example! Thanks.

 

Whatever aspect of caching brings pleasure, who am I to say what it should be? For some it's the chance to get off the couch, for others it's the swag, for some it's the chance to play with the GPS, for others it's the thrill of being brought to a great location.

 

As you said, for some it's fun to simply clear out an area and they'll enjoy finding all the caches in the area no matter what kind of hide. The achievement thing is a great example of how someone could enjoy caching.

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes. Edited April 1, 2008 by TrailGators

[Mushtang]

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes.

There is almost no limit to what some people will use to feel superior to others. It's actually kind of depressing to read sometimes.

[+benh57]

Okay. I'll admit that I put out an LPC. It was meant to be a satire, but I don't think that anyone has realized that. There's no skirt on the LP. It was hidden to be seen from your car if you park in the right place. But somebody hid it better, and I couldn't find it. (Some people just do not understand satire, I guess.) It's a 2.5 mystery cache that you should be able to brute-force in five minutes (though no one has.) Most finders have enjoyed it. Oh,well. I tried. That'll teach me to attempt humor.

 

At some point, every LPC left is going to be a 'satire' of LPCs. This is one of my pet peeves. There are so many of these LPCs which are placed sarcastically, or hiders who think they are being 'funny' placing their LPC, when they full well know how lame they are.

 

It's not funny. All you've done is place another stupid LPC.

[+TrailGators]

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes.

There is almost no limit to what some people will use to feel superior to others. It's actually kind of depressing to read sometimes.

You really have it out for me. I was actualy thinking of some very funny and entertaining escapades that locals have been involved in while trying to get a smiley. I thought we had turned down a different road and were agreeing for once, but I guess my olive branch was snapped in half.

[+tozainamboku]

Okay. I'll admit that I put out an LPC. It was meant to be a satire, but I don't think that anyone has realized that. There's no skirt on the LP. It was hidden to be seen from your car if you park in the right place. But somebody hid it better, and I couldn't find it. (Some people just do not understand satire, I guess.) It's a 2.5 mystery cache that you should be able to brute-force in five minutes (though no one has.) Most finders have enjoyed it. Oh,well. I tried. That'll teach me to attempt humor.

 

At some point, every LPC left is going to be a 'satire' of LPCs. This is one of my pet peeves. There are so many of these LPCs which are placed sarcastically, or hiders who think they are being 'funny' placing their LPC, when they full well know how lame they are.

 

It's not funny. All you've done is place another stupid LPC.

I don't know, sometimes they are funny. But mostly the satire it really about the people who complain that LPCs are lame or stupid. You people just don't get it. A cache doesn't have to take you to a "special" place, it doesn't have to challenge your abilities, it simply needs to be a container with a log hidden someplace where muggles won't find it and geocachers will. The satire LPCs aren't making fun of LPCs - they're making fun of arrogant pretentious people.

 

I will add that I agree with TrailGators that most people would prefer a cache in a nice location or one that is original or involves some additional effort to find, but still that doesn't mean every cache has to meet one of these criteria.

[+sbell111]

I will add that I agree with TrailGators that most people would prefer a cache in a nice location or one that is original or involves some additional effort to find, but still that doesn't mean every cache has to meet one of these criteria.

Well put. I'd add that just because most people might prefer a cache in a nice location or one that is original doesn't mean that they don't also enjoy easy peasy quicky grab LPMs.

 

(I'm not sure about the 'some additional effort' thing for most cachers.)

[Clan Riffster]

The satire LPCs aren't making fun of LPCs

My satire LPC exists solely to make fun of LPC's.

[Clan Riffster]

I thought we had turned down a different road

Consider the source, Brother!

[+sbell111]

I thought we had turned down a different road

Consider the source, Brother!

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you commented, I will too. I didn't see TG's comment as an olive branch. I misunderstood it to be rather snide. Apparently, I wasn't alone.

Edited April 1, 2008 by sbell111

[Mushtang]

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes.

There is almost no limit to what some people will use to feel superior to others. It's actually kind of depressing to read sometimes.

You really have it out for me. I was actualy thinking of some very funny and entertaining escapades that locals have been involved in while trying to get a smiley. I thought we had turned down a different road and were agreeing for once, but I guess my olive branch was snapped in half.

You were thinking of some funny escapades? Then why didn't you mention the funny escapades? I'm not a mind reader, so instead of replying to what you were thinking of I had to reply to what I thought you were talking about.

 

In the past you've taken nearly every opportunity to talk down about the people that find LPCs and talk badly about the caches themselves. How was I supposed to assume that you were thinking of something else?

 

I was just considering the source, brother.

Edited April 1, 2008 by Mushtang

[+TrailGators]

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes.

There is almost no limit to what some people will use to feel superior to others. It's actually kind of depressing to read sometimes.

You really have it out for me. I was actualy thinking of some very funny and entertaining escapades that locals have been involved in while trying to get a smiley. I thought we had turned down a different road and were agreeing for once, but I guess my olive branch was snapped in half.

You were thinking of some funny escapades? Then why didn't you mention the funny escapades? I'm not a mind reader, so instead of replying to what you were thinking of I had to reply to what I thought you were talking about.

 

In the past you've taken nearly every opportunity to talk down about the people that find LPCs and talk badly about the caches themselves. How was I supposed to assume that you were thinking of something else?

 

I was just considering the source, brother.

Things were going smoothly. You agreed with me then I agreed back with you and commented how funny people can be when it comes to caching. Then you slammed me for saying that. I have no idea what you were imagining that I meant, but finding an LPC in a parking lot is not the least bit funny if that's what you thought. However, creeping around garbage dumpsters behind a Target is funny. Anyhow, I know where you stand. Later.

[+sbell111]

The part you wrote in bold is definitely true. There is almost no limit to what some people will do to get a smiley. It's actually kind of funny to watch sometimes.

There is almost no limit to what some people will use to feel superior to others. It's actually kind of depressing to read sometimes.

You really have it out for me. I was actualy thinking of some very funny and entertaining escapades that locals have been involved in while trying to get a smiley. I thought we had turned down a different road and were agreeing for once, but I guess my olive branch was snapped in half.

You were thinking of some funny escapades? Then why didn't you mention the funny escapades? I'm not a mind reader, so instead of replying to what you were thinking of I had to reply to what I thought you were talking about.

 

In the past you've taken nearly every opportunity to talk down about the people that find LPCs and talk badly about the caches themselves. How was I supposed to assume that you were thinking of something else?

 

I was just considering the source, brother.

Things were going smoothly. You agreed with me then I agreed back with you and commented how funny people can be when it comes to caching. Then you slammed me for saying that. I have no idea what you were imagining that I meant, but finding an LPC in a parking lot is not the least bit funny if that's what you thought. However, creeping around garbage dumpsters behind a Target is funny. Anyhow, I know where you stand. Later.

Did someone mention creeping around Target's dumpsters? I must have missed that post.

 

I thought I was in the current LPM thread.

[+tozainamboku]

The satire LPCs aren't making fun of LPCs

My satire LPC exists solely to make fun of LPC's.

I'm not too sure. From your cache page

Post Script: This tutorial is entirely biased, and should be taken accordingly.

You seem to be able to make fun of yourself.

[+drat19]

Did someone mention creeping around Target's dumpsters? I must have missed that post.

 

I thought I was in the current LPM thread.

Speaking only for myself (but quite possibly interpreting TG's post), in my mind the classification of "LPCs" also "represents" other caches of similar "quality", to include random guardrails, tossed into bushes, and placed under/on store dumpsters. Basically, the "quick/easy/cheap/just for stats" classification of caches.

 

FWIW....

Edited April 1, 2008 by drat19

[+sbell111]

Did someone mention creeping around Target's dumpsters? I must have missed that post.

 

I thought I was in the current LPM thread.

Speaking only for myself (but quite possibly interpreting TG's post), in my mind the classification of "LPCs" also "represents" other caches of similar "quality", to include random guardrails, tossed into bushes, and placed under/on store dumpsters. Basically, the "quick/easy/cheap/just for stats" classification of caches.

 

FWIW....

I think that most people would disagree. LPCs are Lamp Post Caches (or Light Pole Caches). I think that the OP only makes a bit of sense if it is defined in this way.

 

In order for reasonable discussion to take place, it's important that we agree on the most basic of definitions.

[+duckdogs]

Wow, I found my first LPC a couple of weeks ago. I guess we don't have many around here, because I thought it pretty neat. I guess that could change if they were everywhere, but, hey, for me at this point I like them all.

[Clan Riffster]

in my mind the classification of "LPCs" also "represents" other caches of similar "quality"

Agreed. They all share a common "zero creativity" theme.

[+sbell111]

in my mind the classification of "LPCs" also "represents" other caches of similar "quality"

Agreed. They all share a common "zero creativity" theme.

As does 7/8ths of all of the ammo box caches hidden in the woods. Are those LPCs, also?

 

(Also, if you choose to use 'LPC' for those caches you don't like, you are creating yet another thread in which issues cannot be discussed because one side chooses to set up derogatory terms for what the other side supports.)

Edited April 1, 2008 by sbell111

[Clan Riffster]

I misunderstood it to be rather snide.

It's all good, Brother. You've recognized the error of your ways, which is the first step in self correction.

[+sbell111]

I misunderstood it to be rather snide.

It's all good, Brother. You've recognized the error of your ways, which is the first step in self correction.

Except that I have a strong suspicion, based on follow-up comments, that I was correct in my understanding.

Edited April 1, 2008 by sbell111

[Clan Riffster]

As does 7/8ths of all of the ammo box caches hidden in the woods.

Perhaps this is a local phenomenon? Around here, roughly 99.9 percent of the ammo can in the woods hides involve a refreshing degree of creativity. Maybe your locals are so fixated on hiding film canisters under lamp posts, (and other lame locations), that they can't be bothered to apply thought to hiding a more substantial hide? Maybe?

 

I extend an invitation to you to come down to my neck of the woods. I'll show you that ammo cans can be hidden creatively, and you can bring your experience back home to demonstrate to the apparently challenged hiders near your home coords.

[+sbell111]

As does 7/8ths of all of the ammo box caches hidden in the woods.

Perhaps this is a local phenomenon? Around here, roughly 99.9 percent of the ammo can in the woods hides involve a refreshing degree of creativity. Maybe your locals are so fixated on hiding film canisters under lamp posts, (and other lame locations), that they can't be bothered to apply thought to hiding a more substantial hide? Maybe?

Insulting entire areas is probably not the best way to make your point, Brother.

I extend an invitation to you to come down to my neck of the woods. I'll show you that ammo cans can be hidden creatively, and you can bring your experience back home to demonstrate to the apparently challenged hiders near your home coords.

Been there, done that.

[Clan Riffster]

Except that I have a strong suspicion, based on follow-up comments, that I was correct in my understanding.

In a forum environment, statements get misunderstood on a regular basis, primarily because this media lacks any personal interaction. As such, the only person who can speak with any authority regarding the meaning behind a particular statement is the person who made the statement. In this case, the author already clarified that his statement was completely benign. Ergo, you were wrong in your original understanding, and correct in your ... uh... correction. Mushtang slapped him down, which I assume has had some degree of impact on his following statements.

 

If I found myself in contention with someone and offered an olive branch, only to have it snapped in two and thrown in my face, my statements would undoubtedly assume a snarkier, (is that a word?), tone.

[+sbell111]

Except that I have a strong suspicion, based on follow-up comments, that I was correct in my understanding.

In a forum environment, statements get misunderstood on a regular basis, primarily because this media lacks any personal interaction. As such, the only person who can speak with any authority regarding the meaning behind a particular statement is the person who made the statement. In this case, the author already clarified that his statement was completely benign. Ergo, you were wrong in your original understanding, and correct in your ... uh... correction. Mushtang slapped him down, which I assume has had some degree of impact on his following statements.

 

If I found myself in contention with someone and offered an olive branch, only to have it snapped in two and thrown in my face, my statements would undoubtedly assume a snarkier, (is that a word?), tone.

My position was based on the fact that there was no real change in tone previous to the statement in question, in the statement in question, or after the statement in question. Also, of course, all the previous statements in this and previous threads weigh in.

 

Am I wrong? Was I wrong before? I dunno.

[Clan Riffster]

Insulting entire areas is probably not the best way to make your point

Interesting. You insult a vast area, then tell me that insults are bad. How quaint.

 

You opined that 7/8 of ammo cans in the woods, (ACW's), hides involved zero creativity. I must assume that you were referring to those ACW's that you have personally located, since you would be hard pressed to judge a cache you haven't found. Your profile puts your recent caching activities in a specific geographic region. Is this the region where 7/8's of the folks hiding ammo cans do so without any creativity, or were you referring to some other region?

[+sbell111]

Insulting entire areas is probably not the best way to make your point

Interesting. You insult a vast area, then tell me that insults are bad. How quaint.

 

You opined that 7/8 of ammo cans in the woods, (ACW's), hides involved zero creativity. I must assume that you were referring to those ACW's that you have personally located, since you would be hard pressed to judge a cache you haven't found. Your profile puts your recent caching activities in a specific geographic region. Is this the region where 7/8's of the folks hiding ammo cans do so without any creativity, or were you referring to some other region?

My statement makes no statement that is besed on any specific cacher group.

 

By my estimate, 7/8ths of the ammo box caches that I have found over the last seven years in all areas have been roughly identical (next to tree/rock covered with detritus). I've enjoyed every one.

 

Also, insults are bad.

Edited April 1, 2008 by sbell111