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Maintaining other caches.


Storm_Shadow
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I couldn't for the life of me find a better place to post this. So I also posted it in the Geocaching Topics forums Since I am Canadian I wanted a more local response however I value opinions of people from all over the world so I thought that would be a good place as well.

 

We do not do a gigantic amount of caching but get out with our group or individually when we can. I love caching. Both placing and hunting. I carry a container in the back of the truck which is referred to as the CACHE BOX. It contains:

 

-Cache containers (In case we find a good spot or need to maintain ours or someone elses)

-Camo tape

-Baggies

-Log Sheets of all shapes and sizes

-Twine

-Pens, pencils, markers etc.

-Knife and scissors

-Team stickers

-Muggle cards

 

Well.. you get the picture.

 

Anyways... I have done some basic maintenance on some people's caches. New pencils, baggies, camo, etc. I'm sure these are all appreciated and acceptable in mostly everyone's eyes. I only use quality materials and believe that good will spent comes back three fold.

 

Recently I have come across a rash of micro containers with no space to sign the sheet or just enough to leave a Team C.O.B.R.A. sticker. (Basic labels with 30 per sheet). I've made up a "temporary log sheet" for these containers. Basic idea?

 

<<It has our logo and states at the head of the sheet>>

This temporary log sheet has been placed here by:

Team C.O.B.R.A. Geocachers:Niagara Division

Until the owner has a chance to change sheets.

www.cobraops.com

 

<<Then below it:>>

Cache Name:

Cache Owner:

Log Sheet Placed:

By C.O.B.R.A. Member:

 

<<Then below THAT:>>

If you are the owner of this cache and your log sheet is no longer here that means we could not fit both sheets in the cache container. We have your log sheet and will ensure it is delivered to you safely for your records. Please contact us at finances@cobraops.com

 

Now. Is there anyone who feels this is not acceptable behavior when maintaining a cache? I thought I would get some opinions on this and basic maintenance of others caches before putting these things in our truck.

 

Keeping log sheets is essential to cache owners. I know this. There are many ways to get the logs back to the owner such as personal delivery or the mail system. And it gives a chance to cachers to meet each other. Is there any other opinions on this people wish to share? I really don;t want to "step on any owners toes" or anything. I thought this would just be a friendly way to help out other cache owners.

 

Thoughts?

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It might be stepping on the owners toes if the problem has gone unreported in previous log entries.

 

If however there have been several mentions of the logbook being full - and the owner has done nothing, then it is neglect on their part. Do what you can to save their cache if you deem it worthy!

 

Always give the owner a chance to do it themselves though. B)

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It might be stepping on the owners toes if the problem has gone unreported in previous log entries.

 

If however there have been several mentions of the logbook being full - and the owner has done nothing, then it is neglect on their part. Do what you can to save their cache if you deem it worthy!

 

Always give the owner a chance to do it themselves though. B)

 

Agreed. I just felt that if I come across a full log sheet that I can't sign, I hate not signing. (Pride?) Regardless. I've gotten a lot of input from the general Groundspeak section from international cachers including the following:

 

"...let the owner know what you did & all should be ok...i'll NEVER remove a log no mater what the condition..."

 

"Personally, I'd rather someone post that the logbook is full and let me take care of it"

 

"As far as other maintenance, if there is an active owner I wouldn't go much beyond adding a pencil, duct taping a crack, replacing a Ziploc bag and trading out inappropriate items."

 

"Replacing micro log sheets would generally be fine. However the whole shameless self promotion thing would be annoying to me."

 

"I would rather someone do that, then to post in their log that they didn't sign it because it was too full or something. I'd probably be fine with it, and appreciate the help, but then switch out the logsheet when I could."

 

"Now I'm not so sure about taking the old log with you...... I'll have to think a little more on that one...... Nope I wouldn't do, nor want, that."

 

"I can't imagine getting upset at someone for replacing a log sheet for me. It's usually a selfless act that many cachers do every day. Great that you practice this courtesy. I'm not sure all the rest is necessary however. It kinds of feels like that you want to advertise your good deed or the owners lack of attention to their cache by putting your team name on the log."

 

These are all excerpts of course of their original messages. But thought I would share other's inputs. I guess generally I should remove my team logo off of the temp logs and leave blank sheets and contact the owners and tell them... seems to be the general feeling.

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My two cents... I'd probably dial back the repeat of your name a bit.

 

Important to have it on there, yes. Important to have it on there 5 or so times? Not so much. I'd probably limit it to "This log is a temporary addition by ______________ " To the owner "If your log is no longer in here, it means.... contact us at ******* "

 

Simple, to the point.

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...About the only time you should get in trouble is if you swap out an Ammo can for plastic in the name of maintaining the cache.

 

For the record, in the reverse of the above, if anybody feels the need to exchange my lockNlock for ammo cans, please be advise that I will not be mad at you. B)

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This brings out what I have said before and what I do believe is required in the rules, that it is required for the owner to maintain “ALL” of their caches. I see a lot of people own at least 50, some own 100’s or more caches, how in the heck can anyone maintain that amount? But I’m torn, I like the fact that there are so many caches for me to choose from, but I also like fallowing rules, so I think this is one of those cases where it's OK to fudge on the rules a bit… or there would be a lot less caches for us to find.

 

I think it is just fine to fix up a neglected cache with a new log, but there is a dilemma here. Lets say you run across a cache way up on a steep mountain somewhere, the log is full what do you do? If you notify the owner, is he to climb the mountain again to place a new log in it? Or if he says it’s OK to replace the log after you get back home to log your visit, do you climb back up the mountain yourself to place the new log for him… I just don’t think this will ever be done?

 

This is a very good question. It is in my opinion the full log should be replaced right then, this way the cache stays fresh for others. But I think if you do take it upon yourself to replace a log, it is your duty then to use every means possible to contact the owner (this would also mean taking on the responsibility to mail the owner back the used log), and apprise him or her of what you had to do. If the owner doesn’t agree with what you have done after they have been notified as to the condition of the log, then the cache should be archived.

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This brings out what I have said before and what I do believe is required in the rules, that it is required for the owner to maintain “ALL” of their caches. I see a lot of people own at least 50, some own 100’s or more caches, how in the heck can anyone maintain that amount? But I’m torn, I like the fact that there are so many caches for me to choose from, but I also like fallowing rules, so I think this is one of those cases where it's OK to fudge on the rules a bit… or there would be a lot less caches for us to find.

 

I think it is just fine to fix up a neglected cache with a new log, but there is a dilemma here. Lets say you run across a cache way up on a steep mountain somewhere, the log is full what do you do? If you notify the owner, is he to climb the mountain again to place a new log in it? Or if he says it’s OK to replace the log after you get back home to log your visit, do you climb back up the mountain yourself to place the new log for him… I just don’t think this will ever be done?

 

This is a very good question. It is in my opinion the full log should be replaced right then, this way the cache stays fresh for others. But I think if you do take it upon yourself to replace a log, it is your duty then to use every means possible to contact the owner (this would also mean taking on the responsibility to mail the owner back the used log), and apprise him or her of what you had to do. If the owner doesn’t agree with what you have done after they have been notified as to the condition of the log, then the cache should be archived.

 

You are right, I had 50 caches at one time and had the hardest of time maintaining them. But these were placed at a time when geocaching was not well known in my area and I was trying to drum up business, but now there are enough cachers out there that just 10 caches per cacher is enough to maintain the game.

 

That's why I started archiving the furthest caches from my home and am now down to 26 active ones (and will probably shorten the list further next year). And you know what? Once I removed the caches, others came in and filled the gap in the area, sometimes in the exact location I used. Now the best part is I got to find them. B)

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This brings out what I have said before and what I do believe is required in the rules, that it is required for the owner to maintain “ALL” of their caches. I see a lot of people own at least 50, some own 100’s or more caches, how in the heck can anyone maintain that amount? But I’m torn, I like the fact that there are so many caches for me to choose from, but I also like fallowing rules, so I think this is one of those cases where it's OK to fudge on the rules a bit… or there would be a lot less caches for us to find.

 

I think it is just fine to fix up a neglected cache with a new log, but there is a dilemma here. Lets say you run across a cache way up on a steep mountain somewhere, the log is full what do you do? If you notify the owner, is he to climb the mountain again to place a new log in it? Or if he says it’s OK to replace the log after you get back home to log your visit, do you climb back up the mountain yourself to place the new log for him… I just don’t think this will ever be done?

 

This is a very good question. It is in my opinion the full log should be replaced right then, this way the cache stays fresh for others. But I think if you do take it upon yourself to replace a log, it is your duty then to use every means possible to contact the owner (this would also mean taking on the responsibility to mail the owner back the used log), and apprise him or her of what you had to do. If the owner doesn’t agree with what you have done after they have been notified as to the condition of the log, then the cache should be archived.

 

You are right, I had 50 caches at one time and had the hardest of time maintaining them. But these were placed at a time when geocaching was not well known in my area and I was trying to drum up business, but now there are enough cachers out there that just 10 caches per cacher is enough to maintain the game.

 

That's why I started archiving the furthest caches from my home and am now down to 26 active ones (and will probably shorten the list further next year). And you know what? Once I removed the caches, others came in and filled the gap in the area, sometimes in the exact location I used. Now the best part is I got to find them. B)

 

Ditto. Currently I have 54 active (including 2 disabled - 1 is waiting for plaques to be replaced, the other I disabled yesterday cause it may have washed/blown away) and by the end of the year I will be archiving over 30 of them. I have no trouble maintaining mine, never have.

 

There are caches out there that the person that put them out has only a few, yet some are in need of repairs for ages. Life gets busy, it happens, oh well.

 

Ultimately whether you decide to fix up another's cache or not you will never be able to please everyone that plays this game. There are so many different opinions that in the end all you can do is what feels right for you at the time.

 

On the positive side... I'm looking forward to a good breakfast on Sunday! See ya there!

 

B) The Blue Quasar

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Ultimately whether you decide to fix up another's cache or not you will never be able to please everyone that plays this game. There are so many different opinions that in the end all you can do is what feels right for you at the time.

B) The Blue Quasar

 

Here, here. B)

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On the positive side... I'm looking forward to a good breakfast on Sunday! See ya there!

 

:( The Blue Quasar

 

HEAR HEAR!

 

I love their ribs! (Who says ribs is not breakfast?)

 

As for the caches, I have decided to replace full logs and make an attempt at keeping the old log sheet in them or placing it in a cache nearby for the owner to retreive when they get a chance. I am also removing a good portion of the "advertisin" for our group.

 

So folks, if you see a C.O.B.R.A. log in your cache and it offends you I apologize. If it does not then I am glad we could help.

 

But this is why I like ammo cans. Forget a log sheet. You can have a log book. It will probably NEVER fill up.

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I have had this question myself, and have read a few other threads over the past months on this topic. Since the spring, I started to carry everything from extra writing sticks to 3 types of duct tape, tube of silicone, and a extra special roll of electracal tape that fuses to the material and turns to rubber. I have fixed up 10+ caches, replaced a water logged log book (say that fast 10 times lol) and dropped over 2 boxes of pencils into caches. I have not had one bad remark towards the maintance I have done yet. What ever I end up doing, I email the owner, tell him/her the previous and present condition of the cache and what I did at the location. I myself along with a few other members here decided this would be one route we could go with to try and stop the "GEO-TRASH". I feel that this is a good gesture for the cache owner, and to feel out his/her present view on geocaching. We have received a few email back where the owner tells us they have either moved out of the area or lost the caching bug due to what ever reason. This gives us the option through emails to either adopt, do maintance for, or remove and archive before a maintance log gets posted and the reviewers archive the listing w/o the cache being removed. I feel that we should be proactive than reactive to keep the caches in the best usable condition possible.

 

parker2

 

P.S. Wish I could make it out for a rib breakfast :)

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I have had this question myself, and have read a few other threads over the past months on this topic. Since the spring, I started to carry everything from extra writing sticks to 3 types of duct tape, tube of silicone, and a extra special roll of electracal tape that fuses to the material and turns to rubber. I have fixed up 10+ caches, replaced a water logged log book (say that fast 10 times lol) and dropped over 2 boxes of pencils into caches. I have not had one bad remark towards the maintance I have done yet. What ever I end up doing, I email the owner, tell him/her the previous and present condition of the cache and what I did at the location. I myself along with a few other members here decided this would be one route we could go with to try and stop the "GEO-TRASH". I feel that this is a good gesture for the cache owner, and to feel out his/her present view on geocaching. We have received a few email back where the owner tells us they have either moved out of the area or lost the caching bug due to what ever reason. This gives us the option through emails to either adopt, do maintance for, or remove and archive before a maintance log gets posted and the reviewers archive the listing w/o the cache being removed. I feel that we should be proactive than reactive to keep the caches in the best usable condition possible.

 

parker2

 

P.S. Wish I could make it out for a rib breakfast :D

 

All good, may I also say good job? I will add extra logs to my pack now, just in case.

Edited by Hobo2
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It seems like I get a different idea of how people feel about this between the 2 forums.

 

On one hand in the Canadian forum people say Go For It.

 

In the General Forums (Where no Canadians have posted) people have mixed reactions from angry to indifferent to insulted.

 

I was out maintaining my "international Caches" today in Indianapolis, IN and FT. Wayne, IN and ran into an elderly fellow who calls himself "poppa-D" and happens to be from Welland, ON (He was coming back from Tennessee.) Amazing that we met this way. He was finding my cache (Team C.O.B.R.A. Series: Travelers #1) and I was going to maintain it and check to make sure it was nice and tight. (It's a tough one. Lots of DNFs and only 2 found it.) And on a side note I found a great spot in Pittsburgh, PA and one in Columbus, OH where no others are around. Can't wait to drop 2 new caches out there!

 

It was his first find ever. He caught the bug visiting family down there and he had to stop in Indy and found a few nearby caches before heading out. He mentioned that if the log was full and he could not sign he would have been disappointed since he is rarely that far from home. He thought it was a good idea too.

 

I'll add temp log sheets and hopefully noone gets upset and if they do I know not to do it for their caches in the future I guess.

 

Ribs... Bacon... Omelettes...

 

Here I come. BOO YAH!

Edited by Storm_Shadow
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I guess you have all extremes. I have a few logs here from a cache that has been, in a better term, abandoned, and when I asked if they wanted me to ship it back to them they simply said, "naaaa just trash them". ??? I always thought that the log is the most important thing in my caches, I have all my old logs (except for those caches that got muggled) and I cherish them. I never would mind if somebody adds sheets to my logs if it's full I certainly never want to miss a log.

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... If you are the owner of this cache and your log sheet is no longer here that means we could not fit both sheets in the cache container. We have your log sheet and will ensure it is delivered to you safely for your records. Please contact us at finances@cobraops.com

 

Now. Is there anyone who feels this is not acceptable behavior when maintaining a cache? I thought I would get some opinions on this and basic maintenance of others caches before putting these things in our truck.

 

Keeping log sheets is essential to cache owners. I know this. There are many ways to get the logs back to the owner such as personal delivery or the mail system. And it gives a chance to cachers to meet each other. Is there any other opinions on this people wish to share? I really don;t want to "step on any owners toes" or anything. I thought this would just be a friendly way to help out other cache owners.

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't understand the obsession with signing the log if it's full. Surely you can squeeze your initials on a log sheet somewhere and note on the website that the log is full, it needs replacing and you only had room to squeeze your initials on the sheet, (or abreviated form of your caching name.) Also take a photo of the cache to prove that you were actually there and post it with your log entry on the website. I don't see that finding a full log is the end of the world. The important thing is that you were there and you found the cache.

 

I didn't like the idea of all of the self-promoting you seemed to be doing in the name of doing a good deed.

 

I also think that if YOU take someone's log, it is YOUR responsibility to contact the cache owner (not the other way around,) because they didn't ask you to take their log, you took that responsibilty upon yourself to do so, so you should also take the responsibility to return the log to them at your expense.

 

Not everyone is going to want to give you their private contact information or mailing address so that they can get their log back, which wasn't your responsibility to take in the first place. By being so "helpful" you could be depriving a cache owner of their own cache logs if they don't want to give out their personal information to a stranger. Not everyone is willing to meet face-to-face with a stranger to get a logbook back either.

 

Adding pencils, extra log books, extra log sheets, a pencil sharpener, fresh baggies, etc. is totally acceptable but taking log books and sheets, just doesn't seem right. Cache owners who aren't interested in properly maintaining their caches now, are more than likely not gong to be maintaining their cache in the future either so it seems like a good idea for them to either give the cache to someone else to permanently care for or to archive it. Just my opinion.

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