Cache Listing Issues

[+geojohn23]

I have been attempting to get a cache placement approved, but the reviewer and I have some misunderstanding related to the location of the coordinates that I have provided for the cache location. The reviewer insists that he/she has checked and re-checked and the coordinates appear to him/her to be located very close to the entrance to Griffiss Air Force Base and therefore he/she will not approve the cache. I, on the other hand, am pretty sure of my coordinate location and that it is no where near the Air Base (in fact about 20 miles away).

 

The coordinate locations are:

N43deg 19.076min

W075deg 47.604min

 

Can some of you check and see where these coordinates put you on a map in relation to Griffiss Air Force Base, or any other place that might be in-appropriate for a cache location? BTW, I believe these coordinates to be at the intersection of Dutch Hill Rd and Hillsboro Rd in the town of Camden, NY about 20 miles from Griffiss...

 

GeoJohn23

[+Stunod]

 

Are you sure the coords on your cache page are right? Maybe you typoed them?

[+mb3]

I'm not sure where the base is but the coordinates in your post are near Dutch Hill Rd and Hillsboro Rd in mapsource.

[+Hemlock]

Edit: Never mind. I just realized its a multi

Edited September 24, 2005 by Hemlock

[+geojohn23]

To make sure I didn't - I copied and pasted...

 

Here is a quoting of the most recent interchange between us:

 

September 11 by New York Admin (0 found)

I'm sorry, I wish I could publish this cache for you but I checked and double checked your final location and it still appears to be at the entrance to Griffis Air Force Base.

 

New York Admin

Volunteer cache reviewer

Geocaching.com

 

[view this log on a separate page]

September 2 by geojohn23 (52 found)

j.will@ieee.org said the following on 8/30/2005 9:18 PM:

 

>

> I am using the standard GPS "HDDD MM.MM" WGS84 Datum format coordinates. If you go to (visit link) and enter N43 19.076 W075 47.604 in the search box for the WGS84 datum format and then map this location, you will get:

> (visit link) which you should see is the approximately 20 miles from Griffiss (note that Griffiss AFB and Griffiss Business and Technology Park are one and the same location since the Strategic Air Command pulled out several years ago).

>

> So to be clear: N43deg 19.076min is the same as lat=43.31793deg that the geocaching site shows in the getmap url (because 0.31793deg * 60 min/deg = 19.076min) and W075deg 47.604min is the same as long=-75.7934 (because 0.7934deg * 60 min/deg = 47.604min). And this is the location of the final cache.

>

> In trying to understand what coordinates you may be using, if you had entered the WGS84 Datum format coordinates as decimal lat/long, then you may have entered the coordinates as lat=43.19076, long=-75.47604, and you would find a location much closer to Griffiss, but still about 2 miles away.

>

> Please re-check how you are using the coordinates given. I have double and triple-checked from my end.

>

> John

>

>

>

> New York said the following on 8/30/2005 8:01 PM:

>

>> I'm sorry but giving the possibility of a typo the coordinates you gave me for the final (N43 19.076 W075 47.604) are on Griffiss Air Base. The link you provided in your email is that of Griffiss Business and Technology Park.

>> Somehow something here isn't right and I suspect we are both using different coordinates. Please check the coordinates for your final cache.

>>

>> New York Admin

>> geocaching.com

[+GIDEON-X]

Streets & Trips......... Puts it @Dutch Rd. & Hillsboro Rd. Don't know this relation to the Base?......

[+Lil Devil]

When you look at the geocaching map for those coords, you see a grey blob in the SW corner, with a grey path leading to the center point. Now click in that grey blob to pan the map. You will then see the are marked as Griffiss Air Force Base.

 

That is what your reviewer is basing his info on.

[peter]

I get the coordinates being at the same place on the USGS topo map that Stunod has above. But just off the topo he shows (i.e. going southwest on Dutch Hill Rd.) is a place labeled "Griffiss Air Force Base - Camden Test Annex." It's not the actual base and has no runways, but it does have three tower structures and the aerial view in USPhotoMaps shows a small circular track or other structure toward the middle.

 

Dutch Hill Rd. is one of the entrance roads to this area and the center of the test annex is about 1.5 miles from the intersection where the cache is located.

Edited September 24, 2005 by peter

[+geojohn23]

When you look at the geocaching map for those coords, you see a grey blob in the SW corner, with a grey path leading to the center point. Now click in that grey blob to pan the map. You will then see the are marked as Griffiss Air Force Base.

 

That is what your reviewer is basing his info on.

 

Holy COW!!! This geocaching map is an *incredibly old* map then!! When I was a young boy (30 years ago) there WAS a remote test site for Griffiss and some towers that I could see from my bedroom window -- but this was all completely decommissioned and SOLD something like 30 years ago! This area is all just woods now, can hardly even see the old road!

 

Thanks for figuring out what was going on! Now, any ideas how I can convince the reviewer that the map info in no longer correct?

[MapheadMike]

It looks like all of Griffis AFB is completely decommisioned and in private hands now. That should help show that whatever was formerly going on at that tract isn't now a security matter.

 

If it's available online for the relevant county, a land record search that shows that someone other than DoD owns that tract now could help.

 

Adding:

 

From the OLD topo map, the entrance "road" in question doesn't appear to go all the way through. It looks like it might have been a utility easement, not an entrance, with the actual entrances to the facility (which no longer exists) being on the west (Marsh) and south (Elpis).

 

Some googling finds Camden Test Annex on a couple of cleanup type lists, but nothing active. The photos on maps.google show the area to be quite abandoned.

Edited September 24, 2005 by QOCMike

[+Lil Devil]

Now, any ideas how I can convince the reviewer that the map info in no longer correct?

Umm, tell him?

 

Maybe take a picture of the area to show him.

[+TeamAO]

Get a more updated map or take pictures of the final.

 

If you really want to get the point across, take a picture of a GPS reading AT the base.

[+geojohn23]

I found an official (straight from the AirForce) website that states that the Camden Test Annex was declared "excess" on 8 March 1974 and officially decommisioned on 30 June 1974. (http://www.rl.af.mil/History/1970s/1974.html) pretty darn close to my approximation of it's closure about 30 years ago!

 

I have forwarded this off to the cache reviewer. Thanks for all you folks' help, this was driving me nuts (and probably also driving the reviewer nuts too) ;-)

 

GeoJohn23