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Jake39

What Is The Reason For Creating 'waymarking?'

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...I understand that originally some of these categories were part of 'Geocaching' that got out of hand and therefore were discontinued. By all the logs below I can see this is going to be another pain in the 'You know what' to peruse.

 

1. What is the reason for setting up "Waymarking"?

 

2. As the work involved and the cost must be considerable why create a separate site. (and server, as this one didn't crash yesterday)

 

3. There is no advantage (yet?) to 'Groundspeak' as far as recouping their cost for settting up and running this enterprise.

'

4. There are --NO-- Travel Bugs being sold to make some money for 'Groundspeak'.

 

5. If it is to be opened up to all loggers, not only 'Premium Members' there would not be any extra revenue created to support this operation.

 

6. So.... after all this, how do you support or reason creating this 'Waymarking' as a separate enterprise?

:rolleyes:

Edited by Jake39

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Well, off the top of my head....

 

1. Another way to intro more people to Geocaching and the revenue it generates.

 

2. Sell more premium memberships (assuming there will be free and premium features on Waymarking similar to those on geocaching)

 

3. Merchandising. They already have Waymarking.com stickers. What else may be coming?

 

4. Website ad revenue when it ramps up.

 

5. Perhaps opens the door to some form of commercialized Waymarking in the future where companies can pay to get themselves listed to encourage waymarkers to visit their establishments and claim visit logs? Of course I have no idea if this has crossed Groundspeak's mind, but it isn't that much of a stretch.

 

Keep in mind WM is still in Beta - Who knows what other features Groundspeak has in store.

Edited by Semper Questio

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Another question that comes to mind is:

Do TPTB see Waymarking.com as eventually becoming economically self-sufficient, or will it be permanently subsidized by geocaching.com?

It seems from the first 2 posts in this thread that different people have different visions of wm.com's role/place/future in gc.com's structure and finances.

 

I do not understand the pragmatic details of the server structure employed by gc.com (or wm.com) and the finances and manpower needed to maintain them (and I'm more than happy to pay a premium membership and let someone else deal with that stuff while I play in the woods), but if wm.com takes off as it seem likely too, it will place a geometrically increasing demand on gc.com resources as time goes by.

 

If it is not generating money through its own premium memberships, then it will be taking a larger and larger slice of gc.com's money as time passes.

 

I'm not a stockholder in gc.com (nor do I play one on TV), but I feel that a separate membership structure would seem to make a great many people happy, myself included.

 

I like knowing that the money I give to gc.com goes to maintaining and improving the company's ability to function as the best geocache listing service on the planet. I would also be happy to Paypal TPTB $5-$10 per year for the ongoing activities of wm.com to help them maintain and improve that separate and distinct site, once it gets off the ground. As they really do focus on completely different aspects of GPS recreation, I would like it better if they were financially separated as well.

 

Just my thoughts on a Tuesday morning,

 

nfa-jamie

Edited by NFA

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I was mainly addressing Groundspekas revnue-generating side of Waymarking since the "why's" of moving locationless, etc ot waymarks have been covered in other threads ad nauseum. And, of course, I was just speculating. Believe me. I have no more insight into what GS has in mind than anyone else! :)

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Non-physical caches are a threat to geocaching. Land managers could just point to virts as an alternative to allowing physical caches.

So they'll point to Waymarking instead.

 

Sure, Waymarking isn't geocaching and you want to geocache in their park.

 

They'll just tell you "No Geocaching, Yes Waymarking"...same answer as before ("No Physicals, Yes Virtuals"), just new words.

 

The concept of "you can hunt for spots so long as you don't leave anything physical behind in my park" is their entire point...

 

They're not going to look at this new redefinition of placing vs non-placing and say "Curses...foiled again!" and suddenly allow you to put tupperware behind the trees on their land.

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Non-physical caches are a threat to geocaching. Land managers could just point to virts as an alternative to allowing physical caches.

So they'll point to Waymarking instead.

 

Sure, Waymarking isn't geocaching and you want to geocache in their park.

 

They'll just tell you "No Geocaching, Yes Waymarking"...same answer as before ("No Physicals, Yes Virtuals"), just new words.

 

The concept of "you can hunt for spots so long as you don't leave anything physical behind in my park" is their entire point...

 

They're not going to look at this new redefinition of placing vs non-placing and say "Curses...foiled again!" and suddenly allow you to put tupperware behind the trees on their land.

I didn't see a link on the geocaching.com page that directed people to Waymarking :ph34r:

 

 

:lol:

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Non-physical caches are a threat to geocaching. Land managers could just point to virts as an alternative to allowing physical caches.

So they'll point to Waymarking instead.

 

Sure, Waymarking isn't geocaching and you want to geocache in their park.

 

They'll just tell you "No Geocaching, Yes Waymarking"...same answer as before ("No Physicals, Yes Virtuals"), just new words.

 

The concept of "you can hunt for spots so long as you don't leave anything physical behind in my park" is their entire point...

 

They're not going to look at this new redefinition of placing vs non-placing and say "Curses...foiled again!" and suddenly allow you to put tupperware behind the trees on their land.

I didn't see a link on the geocaching.com page that directed people to Waymarking :ph34r:

 

 

:lol:

correct.... lets hope the land managers don't come into the forum... I think its being discussed there a bit :ph34r:

 

And I'll bet that once Waymarking.com gets out of beta and open to all members, they might put some sort of announcement on the home page. But maybe not... maybe they'll only announce it in the super secret forum.

 

But this topic has been discussed at length. Jeremey feels strongly that the land managers will open up their land to physical caches since "virtuals" are no longer going to be a part of geocaching despite the attempt to replace them with Waymarking. We'll just have to see... but I doubt it.

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5. Perhaps opens the door to some form of commercialized Waymarking in the future where companies can pay to get themselves listed to encourage waymarkers to visit their establishments and claim visit logs? Of course I have no idea if this has crossed Groundspeak's mind, but it isn't that much of a stretch.

I have it on the word of cache-advance, who insists he has all the inside scoop on Groundspeak, that this will never happen.

 

I don't believe him, of course, even when he gets kind of scary in his insistence. Jeremy would be insane :ph34r: to pass up such a potentially lucrative revenue source.

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Non-physical caches are a threat to geocaching. Land managers could just point to virts as an alternative to allowing physical caches.

So they'll point to Waymarking instead.

 

Sure, Waymarking isn't geocaching and you want to geocache in their park.

 

They'll just tell you "No Geocaching, Yes Waymarking"...same answer as before ("No Physicals, Yes Virtuals"), just new words.

 

The concept of "you can hunt for spots so long as you don't leave anything physical behind in my park" is their entire point...

 

They're not going to look at this new redefinition of placing vs non-placing and say "Curses...foiled again!" and suddenly allow you to put tupperware behind the trees on their land.

I didn't see a link on the geocaching.com page that directed people to Waymarking :(

 

 

:(

My understanding is that some land managers are given a free premium account so they can monitor placements in their area. If that is so, wouldn't they know about this per the notice all premium members received? Even if they didn't, I think it would be foolish to think they haven't yet nor ever will find out about Waymarking.

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I've already dismissed the "elimination of virtuals will make land managers more lenient on physical caches" argument, but it doesn't hurt to hope. :(

 

Even if TPTB is against the commercialization of Waymarking, I'm personally in favor of it, especially if it can be used to lessen the same on Geocaching. I'd like to see "commercial waymarks" be identified as such with icons, labels, etc. There are concerns about shameless plugs, but large corporations tend to be more responsible than individuals in that regard.

 

It's like comparing Nieman Marcus to eBay sellers. :(:(

 

I'm hoping that Waymarking will be used as a "Living POI (Point of Interest)" database that can be updated with Pocket Queries before a trip. I can certainly see a great value in this if GPSr with autorouting and maps become as common as PCs.

 

I'm STRONGLY against WM and GC having separate fee structures. I want my Premium Membership to cover both, and when Waymarking becomes more commercial in the future as I'm hoping, corporations can subsidize the costs for Groundspeak and I don't have to pay any $extra$ and still enjoy both Geocaching and Waymarking.

Edited by budd-rdc

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You guys are overlooking one key probability of Waymarking. Eventually it will stand on its own. Right now only geocachers are exposed to it. Some like it. Some don't. That's to be expected. Later it will be open to all, and most likely even marketed to non-geocachers. We all know people who think geocaching is silly, right? Well maybe some of those people might like Waymarking instead. Maybe not right now, while the site is limited, but geocaching was limited in its early months, too. Eventually it took off, and so will Waymarking. Someday there might even be more Premium Members using the Waymarking site than those using the geocaching site. THEN it will be the geocachers benefiting from the extra income brought in by Waymarking :(

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You know, I don't have access to Jeremy's business plan, nor do I want to. I don't need to know what his financial plan is.

 

What I do know is that many geocachers really like LCs and virts. Many of these will appreciate being able to still play these games via WM.com. This is value that will result in premium memberships.

 

Oh yeah, Jeremy has repeatedly stated that one site benefits the other in very practical ways. Successful features on one site can be exported to the other.

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Later it will be open to all, and most likely even marketed to non-geocachers. We all know people who think geocaching is silly, right? Well maybe some of those people might like Waymarking instead

 

Exactly... we are just the lucky ones that get the preview.

 

To me, this will target a demographic that is larger than Geocachers, but still able to include Geocachers.

 

:huh: The Blue Quasar

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...snip...

 

What I do know is that many geocachers really like LCs and virts. Many of these will appreciate being able to still play these games via WM.com. This is value that will result in premium memberships.

 

...snip...

If I am required to go to another site than gc.com to do VC and locationless, who says that I will decide to go to wm.com? I know of another site that already has many locationless (that will remain nameless here <_< ) - to me that site is looking more like a real alternative for LC and VC every day although I haven't been tempted before! As a business man, I would think that Jeremy needs to take that into account.

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If I am required to go to another site than gc.com to do VC and locationless, who says that I will decide to go to wm.com?

No one can guarantee your ability or desire to visit other web sites, but you made it to the Groundspeak forums so I think you may have the ability do do it with little difficulty. If not that's your decision. No one is forcing you to do anything.

 

As a business man, I would think that Jeremy needs to take that into account.

 

Well you admit that it isn't interesting you now when the locationless caches have been stagnant for almost 2 years, so I don't know why you would go there in the future either. I very much expect that Waymarking will easily dwarf the geocaching.com site and provide the additional premium memberships to benefit both sites. If you don't believe that, consider that we have the ability to agree to disagree. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels on this point.

 

I have had many nay sayers about geocaching in the first years of geocaching. I don't expect that to be any different with new ideas presented to close minded people.

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I have had many nay sayers about geocaching in the first years of geocaching. I don't expect that to be any different with new ideas presented to close minded people.

Keep in mind that open-minded people are guaranteed to like the new idea either. And some closed-minded people may be accepting the new idea without opening their mind to the possible reasons against it. Both sides of any discussion are going to have both open and closed minded people.

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