Hunting Jv4625

[+bicknell]

The mark JV4625 has caught my interest. It was on our list to hit this weekend, but we got too tired before reaching it. This mark is interesting for a number of reasons. First, it was first a drill hole in 1865, making it one of the oldest marks around here. Second, it was found and set with a disk, and RM's, in 1942. Third, it's an adjusted mark, so the GPS should take us right to it.

 

That said, acess will be interesting. Being somewhat familiar with the area and having just driven by, the to-reach doesn't work anymore. Route 15 has been moved west (if you look up a map, the road just to the east of 15 (point of rocks road aka ballenger creek pike) was route 15 before the current road. The turn off referenced is off the old road on the topo maps, but doesn't make it past the "new" 15, and having been along there recently there's nothing even resembling a road crossing there. Best I can tell from various imaging sources there is nothing on top of the ridge anymore.

 

So, the question becomes, how to get there and who to ask for access. I think it will require a "pack in" approch, with a machete and such. More to the point, how to arrange access. I have no idea who the land owner might be (no obvious house near by) so I don't know who to ask. Any ideas how to put lat/long into a Maryland property database?

 

Anyone from the DC area interesting in going along to find this one?

[evenfall]

Bicknell,

 

Vertical control is adjusted too, so if a station is adjusted, are you telling me something? And what would it be that you are.

 

Adjusted all by itself is pretty misleading, ya think? I mean some stations are adjusted in one plane or the other, some both. No stations are not adjusted in none of the planes or they would not qualify for published control.

 

Is there a better way you can describe it? :-)

 

Rob

[+ddnutzy]

If the land is not posted I just hike in the the station. If you want to get permission and want to find the landowner go to the local board of assessors and look at the maps. The assessor can then tell you who owns the land and how to reach them.

[+PFF]

If you want to get permission and want to find the landowner go to the local board of assessors and look at the maps. The assessor can then tell you who owns the land and how to reach them.

 

Agreed. Or, if you are friendly with a real estate agent, ask if they have the tax records on-line. If so, they can look it up.

 

I suspect that in your area, the info may be available to the public on-line. Go to the web site of the local government (county/parish/etc) and look for a link to their GIS Department or to the Tax Department.

 

This data is public knowledge, and the trend is to give the public easy access.

 

-Paul-

[kc2ixe]

If you want to get permission and want to find the landowner go to the local board of assessors and look at the maps. The assessor can then tell you who owns the land and how to reach them.

 

Agreed. Or, if you are friendly with a real estate agent, ask if they have the tax records on-line. If so, they can look it up.

 

I suspect that in your area, the info may be available to the public on-line. Go to the web site of the local government (county/parish/etc) and look for a link to their GIS Department or to the Tax Department.

 

This data is public knowledge, and the trend is to give the public easy access.

 

-Paul-

Looking at the GC map - it shows it inside a park! Probably an unimproved park. Wish I was down visiting - Point of Rocks is and interesting area

 

Next time I'm down there I want to recover JV4624 - which is right up the road from my wife's family farm

 

I'd also like to find JV4623

 

Maybe later this summer I'll make a trip down

[+bicknell]

Vertical control is adjusted too, so if a station is adjusted, are you telling me something? And what would it be that you are.

Pardon my sloppy use of terms. I always speek in terms of horizontal because, well, the vertical doesn't matter to me at all. This mark is horizontally adjusted, so even though it's in the middle of the woods, the GPS should take you right to the spot. I think all of the referenced landmarks are gone, but that might be ok.

 

I am unclear if the mark is in a park or not. The geocaching.com map is the only map that shows it that way. If it is a park, it's probably part of the C&O canal park, I might try some research on that.

 

Any way you slice it I do think this will be a pack in sort of mark, and it's on a fairly steep and tall hill. Might be a good view at the top though.

[evenfall]

Bicknell,

 

It's all good, I just wanted to see if you knew. But remember to be clear so that the people who read the forum all the time though we don't realize it, can follow along and learn from you too!

 

You never know when you are the teacher.

 

Rob :-)

[+bicknell]

I found a frederick county map that does seem to indicate that it is in the C&O canal park now. Probably all the land that went with the house described in the mark went to the park at some point.

 

There's a boat ramp / parking area under the route 15 bridge which would make for a good parking spot. It's going to be a heck of a hike from there. I figure about a mile, but up about 300-400 feet!

 

If anyone else is interested we'll schedule a trip.

[mloser]

Bicknell,

 

I spent some time looking at this station on various sources and think that the 1942 to reach is still valid, if you ignore the route numbers and your knowledge of the area. I just followed the to reach without thinking of road names and ended up following Barrenger Creek Pike to Point of Rocks road to the farm road that I think is Dr. Duvall's old farm from 1865. (Note that the 1865 recovery mentions Dr Duvall's BARS, but I am willing to get it means BARN.) The topo map shows a cleared area around this old farm, which is probably farmed land, or recently farmed land.

My method of access would be to ask at the farm and try to drive across the field or at least simply WALK from the farmhouse across the open field to the peak. The rise is about 60 feet, which is much preferable to the 300 you would have to do from either side of the hill.

I haven't had a chance to look at aerial photos yet as I am at work but will do so later tonight.

You might even engage the farm owner by taking an extra copy of the NGS description and letting them in on some history of their farm.

I would love to come find this with you but that would only be possible on Saturday (and even that date is shaky). It would be cool to see a disk in a quartz boulder!

 

Matt

[+bicknell]

Ah ha. I just finally put two and two together.

 

So, if you ignore the "new" route Route 15 on the map, the directions are really 0.1 miles to left on point of rocks road, 1 mile to left on route 464, 0.6 miles to the farmhouse road on the left.

 

On a topo map the farmhouse road hits 464 at about "482". The benchmark would be located where the X and "687" appear on the topo map. Is that your interpretation?

 

That would make sense, except these are supposed to be adjusted coordinates, and all the map / photo sites I can see put the mark roughly on the same topo level as the 687 mark, but on the south end of that higest level. Are the red lines on the topo maps "dim tack roads"?

 

If so, that would be simpler overall.

[mloser]

I will do some measuring using USAPhotoMaps when I get home, but my interpretation was based only on what I saw on the topo map--go up Barrenger Creek Pike to Rt 464, turn left, then go to the farmhouse road and up it to the farm. After that, either drive or pack across the field into the woods to the mark. I am pretty sure the coords are NOT where the X and 687 are--that is just an elevation. The station is to the southwest, where the coords place it and where it shows up on Geocaching.

 

This station will be set on the highest point of the ridge that is closest to the river. When I say "highest" I mean exactly that--if you stand in the area where you suspect the mark to be and look around, you can often walk right to the mark by finding the crest of the ridge. It won't be NEAR the crest, it will be ON it. This is typical of mountaintop triangulation stations.

[+bicknell]

Yep, I think you're right. I was originally interpreting the directions different, but that was a combination of being confused by the newer map, and also measuring wrong the first time I measured.

 

This site is definately on the agenda.

[mloser]

Go to maps.google.com and enter the coords of the station: N39 16 54.56990 W077 32 36.48407. By looking at the satellite photo my guess is that if the owner permited it and the day was decently dry, you could drive very near to the woods line. I doubt the woods road is passable though--I have yet to find a "woods road" that remained passable. People must drive into the mountains less than before!

 

I would say there is a near zero possibility that the azimuth mark remains. I projected it on USAPhotomaps and found a likely location that fits the angle and distance, which puts it along state Rt 28 now. However, at 12 feet from the road center, if there is even a small shoulder on Rt 28 the mark has been destroyed. There are two bridges near the proper distance along old Rt 15 and it will be pretty easy to check each of them for the azimuth. My bet is on a wider berm than existed in 1942 and the mark being gone.

[Difficult Run]

[/code]Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I'm pleased to report the recovery of JV4625 - Point of Rocks Reset.

I believe this is one of the eastern oblique arc stations, set by J.A. Sullivan in 1865.

 

Took the first driveway to a subdivision off Rte. 464, got permission from one of the landowners to search for the station and to park off the graveled access road.

Of course, I asked if anyone was deer hunting in the area, to which he replied, "It's restricted by our covenant."

 

This put me about 1/2 mile northeast of the station with a 300 foot climb. - Sweet!

 

Found the station, (disk removed) and the reference marks in good condition.

Surprisingly, the hole was only about an inch deep with no stem remaining, leaving a 3.5 inch circular outline.

 

Reference Mark 1:

 

Reference Mark 2:

 

Feeling pretty bushed, I decide to follow the ridge for as long as I can before turning due east to where I left the car.... then suddenly I hear someone talking to me.

It's a quiet voice, like somebody right next to me.

 

"Hello?", I said.

[soft voice] "You're on private property"[/soft voice]

"Huh?? What?"

[soft voice] "You're on private property"[/soft voice]

Looking up, I see a deer hunter in a tree stand. - Oh Snap!

"I apologize, just trying to get back to my car," to which he just nodded.

 

No hesitation, I went straight down the hill and quietly gave thanks for not being shot at. - Whew!

 

Off to find the azimuth:

From the map, you'll see a red line bearing 112 degrees, extending about 1.1 mile and pointing to a triangle.

Searched about an hour with no luck. - Should have been an easy find.

For a better pic Click Here

 

The old bridge is still intact, with concrete balustrades and looking like it was built circa 1930. A similar bridge about 300 feet

east was recently replaced, and Allegheny Power crews were busy resetting the overhead lines back to their original positions.

 

I'm going back with a metal detector, tape measure and more determination.

~ Mitch ~

[Bill93]

With two bridges so close to the same azimuth, this is a case where FORWARD computations can be a big help to find where the true azimuth crosses the road and be sure you have the right bridge.

 

If I did it right, these points (NAD83) are on the azimuth line:

N39 16 32.2 W77 31 28.6 (1767 m = 1.1 mi)

N39 16 31.8 W77 31 27.3 (1800 m)

N39 16 31.2 W77 31 25.4 (1850 m)

N39 16 30.2 W77 31 22.4 (1928 m =1.2 mi)

 

When you go back, set your GOTO on one of these and walk to where the bearing is 112 or 292 degrees.

 

For plotting on a topo, you need NAD27. Corpscon gives

N39 16 31.9 W77 31 29.6

N39 16 31.4 W77 31 28.3

N39 16 30.8 W77 31 26.4

N39 16 39.8 W77 31 23.4

Edited December 4, 2008 by Bill93