"needs Archived" Opinion Needed

[Sound-Chaser]

I visited a cache in my hometown today that I'm 99% sure is on private property. Not only that, it is very close to the town's water supply. Would the right thing be to contact them, or mark it as needing archived? I'm not the only one that has noticed it's on private property, as several others have mentioned it in the log. Hider is somewhat new to caching, been only to 12 caches since January, but has already placed three. They placed another cache in town that I am almost certain is on private property as well. Opinions?

[+Will+Bill]

I would contact the owner first.

[+AuntieWeasel]

Yes, I'd email the hider, too. If he got permission, he should say so on the cache page...but it sounds like he's just new. Very gentle peer pressure should do the trick.

 

If that doesn't work, bring on the Ton of Bricks

[Sound-Chaser]

If he got permission, he should say so on the cache page

 

Yeah, he didn't, which is why I brought it to the experts. I also didn't want to list the mentioned cache, so it didn't look as if I was saying OMG! N00B!

[+Renegade Knight]

If he got permission, he should say so on the cache page

I don't, and I won't. It's my job as the cache owenr to get any needed permission. It's not your job as the finder to check up the hows and why's of the cache placment. The person I got permission from may not want their name on the page. If they did I'd put it there though. If you do feel the need to second guess a cache placment I'd rather see an email than a should be archived note.

 

What I do want to hear is if the log is wet, if the container is cracked, if the area is showing signs of geocaching activity etc. This information is helpful for me to help me keep tabs on how the cache is doing.

 

Edit: There are exceptions to everthing. If one of my caches has a seriouse problem I'd rather it be pulled offline fast than left online while I'm on vacation.

Edited March 13, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

I'd contact the owner with my concerns.

[+Kai Team]

If he got permission, he should say so on the cache page

I don't, and I won't. It's my job as the cache owenr to get any needed permission. It's not your job as the finder to check up the hows and why's of the cache placment. The person I got permission from may not want their name on the page.

Saying that you have permission in your description doesn't mean listing the name of the person you got permission from. A simple "This cache is on private property and the landowner gave permission" is both necessary and sufficient.

 

It is the finder's business if they are concerned that they (or others) might be trespassing while seeking the cache. Besides the risk of being arrested, Geocaching doesn't need that kind of reputation among landowners ("Geocachers don't respect private property - they invade my land at all hours without giving a thought to my rights. We need to get the authorities to ban this bunch of rowdies!" to which the mob of landowners replies "Yeah, hang 'em all! Hang 'em high!").

 

That said, I'd still email the owner, with a very polite inquiry expressing your concerns and question. If you get no response, or a "bug off" response, then I'd consider a "needs archiving" note.

[+Lean Wolf]

which is why I brought it to the experts

Might be good to keep in mind you mostly don't get expert advice here. You get opinions.

[+AuntieWeasel]

I don't, and I won't.  It's my job as the cache owenr to get any needed permission.  It's not your job as the finder to check up the hows and why's of the cache placment.

Nonono...it's always and exclusively my job not to make sure I'm not breaking the law, and I doubt law enforcement would accept the excuse "but some guy on the internet said this was okay." You don't have to name the property owner to mention that you got permission.

 

It's one thing if the trail is marked Private Property at the beginning -- then I have the option to drive away. But when I'm way, way into a hike and suddenly the land between me and the cache is heavily and prominently posted, what basis do I have to trust the cacher?

 

I'm not big on narking on people, but I'm not trusting of strangers, either. Particularly ones that put me in an awkward spot without telling me the backstory.

[+Renegade Knight]

....when I'm way, way into a hike and suddenly the land between me and the cache is heavily and prominently posted, what basis do I have to trust the cacher?...

I did a cache like that. It took 3 different attempts to find the right way in. Twice I turned around. Once after finding a piece of paper. I picked it up and it said "If you can read this you have been trespassing a for a long time"

 

If you are not comfortable it's time to call it a hunt and find a differnet cache. The cache in question did have a route in, just not the way I was going. In the case you mention I'd not go there evne if the cache did say "come on in folks!"

[+sbell111]

When I go after a cache, I do so under the assumption that the cache in question meets the guidelines. Therefore, I assume that it has been placed with permission (if required). If I don't feel comfortable going after one, I'll skip it.

 

If you have a problem with one, email the owner.

[+AtoZ]

First I agree with Renegade Knight. It is the owners responsiblility and the approvers to insure that all guidelines ahve been adhered to, Not your. Second is the land marked KEEP OUT NO TRESPASSING etc.... does the public have free access to the area??? A parking lot is owned by someone BLM is owned by the goverment etc... So let the owner worry about the cache.

But if you really want to contact them and find out. Maybe they are mistaken, maybe not.

cheers

[+T & G's Adventures]

Just as an 'aside' here...

 

Shouldn't the phrase be "Needs to be archived? You wouldn't say "The car needs washed" would you? Or would you? Maybe I've been out of school too long and the language has changed and nobody told me..

[+vree]

Shouldn't the phrase be "Needs to be archived?  You wouldn't say "The car needs washed" would you? Or would you? Maybe I've been out of school too long and the language has changed and nobody told me..

T&G, it's kind of a regional thing. i wondered the same thing a while ago:

 

"Finally, there are grammatical differences in the speech of regional dialects.... In parts of Pennsylvania, people typically say the car needs washed instead of the car needs washing or the car needs to be washed."

--from PBS webpage about regional differences.

 

back on topic, i agree with kai team - "It is the finder's business if they are concerned that they (or others) might be trespassing while seeking the cache. Besides the risk of being arrested, Geocaching doesn't need that kind of reputation among landowners "

 

right on.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I visited a cache in my hometown today that I'm 99% sure is on private property. Not only that, it is very close to the town's water supply. Would the right thing be to contact them, or mark it as needing archived? I'm not the only one that has noticed it's on private property, as several others have mentioned it in the log. Hider is somewhat new to caching, been only to 12 caches since January, but has already placed three. They placed another cache in town that I am almost certain is on private property as well. Opinions?

I'd email the owner unless I was 100% sure it was on private property. I would only post a "Should be archived" note in a situation like the following one:

 

Work the chisel

 

You'll note:

- I was threatened with arrest

- The cache literally needed to be archived - I still had it in my posession

 

The only other time I've done this is in an area where there are "no trespassing" signs posted literally every 25', and yet somehow the hider didn't spot them, AND they were in an area where I know local law enforcement prosecutes trespassing extremely vigorously. I have no idea how the hider missed these signs - they were obvious at 8PM, in total darkness. I happened to know the area and it's reputation for aggresive defense of it's privacy because I live very close to it. (In the log above, the site wasn't posted - but some of the prior logs mentioned a security guard. They just didn't mention a psychotic security guard...)

 

Although I try hard to avoid trespassing, there are some places where you pretty much have to be a surveyor to find the line between public and private property. In a situation like that I might not worry about it quite as much. We push the line between public and private property pretty hard at times, and that sometimes leads to situations like the one I found myself in.

 

I'd email the owner first. Maybe post a "Note" about it if you are really worried, but not 100% sure. If you are 100% sure the cache is placed where the finder is liable to get into big trouble, you should go ahead and post "Should be archived." But be sure first. If you're wrong, you've made a problem for the owner - and you look like a big dummy. But I wouldn't let worrying about the tender, delicate feelings of the owner stop you if you are certain you are correct. Do be certain first, though.

[+bigredmed]

I don't, and I won't.  It's my job as the cache owenr to get any needed permission.  It's not your job as the finder to check up the hows and why's of the cache placment.

Nonono...it's always and exclusively my job not to make sure I'm not breaking the law, and I doubt law enforcement would accept the excuse "but some guy on the internet said this was okay." You don't have to name the property owner to mention that you got permission.

 

It's one thing if the trail is marked Private Property at the beginning -- then I have the option to drive away. But when I'm way, way into a hike and suddenly the land between me and the cache is heavily and prominently posted, what basis do I have to trust the cacher?

 

I'm not big on narking on people, but I'm not trusting of strangers, either. Particularly ones that put me in an awkward spot without telling me the backstory.

Ran into that with a geocache between Omaha and Lincoln.

 

Bad JuJu when the cache is hidden behind a posted fence.

 

Worse JuJu when you ignore the signs and get to spend the night in a county jail.

 

The owners are obliged to get permission and to make sure that the way in and out are also permitted so that cachers can find the cache without offending anyone (save for backpacker magazine and various eco-fascists, previously mentioned and derided... )