Puzzle Caches - Distance To Web Coords

[+FireFighterJ]

I'm working on a five part Puzzle Series where at each of the four "legs" the cacher gets a "piece" of the actual/real coordinates for the GrandPrize cache.

 

My question is "How far away will the approvers allow me to set the web posted (top of webpage) (read: bogus) coordinates from the actual/physical coordinates?"

 

The problem is that if I am forced to set the webpage posted coordinates very close to the actual coordinates then it will make it WAY TOO EASY for the folks to determine the actual coordinates given the pieces of the coords that they obtain from the "legs".

 

This series is meant to be a difficult series so I want to be able to set the webpage coords as far away as they will let moi.

Edited July 21, 2004 by FireFighterJ

[CacheNCarryMA]

I think as long as it's a mystery cache and your description says "the coords at the top of the page aren't the real location" it's okay.

 

Here are a few examples: Caches listed at N 0 00.000 W 0 00.000

[Mushtang]

You want it to be close to the actual location so it shows up properly on searches for all caches closest to a point, another cache, etc. If you pick 00.000 00.000 your cache will be found by very few people.

 

You should also keep in mind that the bogus coords will define an area where no other cache can be placed, so try and pick coords that a cache couldn't be placed in anyway.

 

For instance, if your cache is in a park, don't use bogus coords that are also in the park. Instead, pick coords of a nearby mall, in a lake, an airport, etc.

[+Cow Spots]

I also always try to place my fake coords reasonably close to the final location so that travel bug mileage is relatively accurate. It also gives people a rough idea of what part of the area they'll eventually end up in.

 

A nice thing is also to say "The cache is not at these coordinates, they are located within XXX miles of the posted coordinates." This can help serve as a little bit of a check on the coords for people to make sure that the solution they came up with is good, instead of in another state.

 

Yet another fun trick is to place the false coordinates somewhere which relates to the puzzle -- I have a puzzle based on movies where the fake coordinates are in the parking lot of a movie theater, and another puzzle based on words where the fake coordinates are that of a library.

 

--Dave, The Cow Spots

[+FireFighterJ]

I agree wholeheartedly about not using the ZERO coords - for the reasons that you outlined. I also agree with your other point - well said. R U saying or implying that I could, however, pick a location - say - 5 MILES away (and especially if it were in a lake?) I guess that I just needed to know if there was a geo-rule that I was unaware of that said that these two sets of coords had to be within a certain distance of each other

[+Team Perks]

Yet another fun trick is to place the false coordinates somewhere which relates to the puzzle...

That's always fun. Although the fake coordinates to one puzzle cache will take you right to my front porch..

[+Team Perks]

I agree wholeheartedly about not using the ZERO coords - for the reasons that you outlined. I also agree with your other point - well said. R U saying or implying that I could, however, pick a location - say - 5 MILES away (and especially if it were in a lake?) I guess that I just needed to know if there was a geo-rule that I was unaware of that said that these two sets of coords had to be within a certain distance of each other

Five miles is reasonable. I've seen them more than that, but I try to keep mine within a couple miles so people will have a general idea where they'll be going.

 

I've seen a few people use the parking coordinates as the fake coords. That's been helpful, but in some cases it might be too much of a giveaway...

[CacheNCarryMA]

I also always try to place my fake coords reasonably close to the final location so that travel bug mileage is relatively accurate. It also gives people a rough idea of what part of the area they'll eventually end up in.

Yes. Actually, most of the mystery caches in my area are posted in the middle of a nearby lake, off shore somewhere, etc.

[+Renegade Knight]

The guidlines have evolved to where your coords should be reasonably close for a puzzle cache. Not so close that you can short circut the puzzle, but close enough to where you are not blocking another cache if possible.

 

What exactly that is, is hard to say. My last was only about 100' off.

[+Team Perks]

The guidlines have evolved to where your coords should be reasonably close for a puzzle cache. Not so close that you can short circut the puzzle, but close enough to where you are not blocking another cache if possible.

I'm not so sure that the false coordinates for a puzzle cache will block another cache from being placed. I posted a puzzle cache a couple months ago, then less than a week later a new cache popped up 40 feet from the false coords (but more than 0.1 mile from the actual coords)... Is that unusual?

[+TeamJiffy]

Oh GOOD GRIEF!

 

Why in the WORLD would the FALSE STARTING coordinates for a mystery/puzzle cache block a REAL cache!?! That's absolute nonsense if it is the case.

 

-Jif

[+Renegade Knight]

The truth is I've not been in an area cache dense enough to find out. I do know they want real coords, and they have asked that the fake ones be close.

 

The fake coords shouldn't block a real cache, but then the unknown location really shouldn't either since a cache owner can't know where the end is unless they have done the cache. I've heard it both ways though so I'm not sure what's current in the guidelines on this.

[+KVOM]

Since the fake coords are also used for TB mileage calculation, I think they should be reasonably close (< 1 mile).

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I recently placed a Puzzle/Mystery Cache with the statement that the actual coords are within 20 miles of the "park and think" spot.

 

nfa

[Keystone]

The answer to this question can be found in the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines:

 

The “catch-all” of cache types, this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates. The only commonality of this cache type is that the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location.  This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

 

When reviewing caches, I enforce the 1 to 2 mile rule of thumb fairly strictly at first, by bringing the guideline to the cache owner's attention and then asking if there is "a good reason otherwise." If the cache owner picked a spot out of the air because it had zeroes in it, they are almost always happy to change the coordinates to something closer. If the cache owner picked the spot because it bears some connection to the cache's theme, etc., then I am usually happy to allow the posted coordinates to be more than 1 to 2 miles from the actual coordinates.

 

I cannot think of a single instance where a cache that is actually AT a posted location has been "blocked" by the fake coordinates for a puzzle cache, but that's just me. That strikes me as something that's pretty easy to work out during the review process.

[+Hemlock]

I cannot think of a single instance where a cache that is actually AT a posted location has been "blocked" by the fake coordinates for a puzzle cache, but that's just me. That strikes me as something that's pretty easy to work out during the review process.

I've run into a couple of cases where the bogus coords of an older puzzle were disturbingly close to the actual coords of a new traditional cache. While I agree that shouldn't block the new cache, it can cause confusion. Looking at the puzzles, it was obvious the bogus coords were picked out of the air, so to reduce confusion I went back and worked with the owners of the puzzles and moved their bogus coords a bit.

[+Cow Spots]

I've run into a couple of cases where the bogus coords of an older puzzle were disturbingly close to the actual coords of a new traditional cache. While I agree that shouldn't block the new cache, it can cause confusion. Looking at the puzzles, it was obvious the bogus coords were picked out of the air, so to reduce confusion I went back and worked with the owners of the puzzles and moved their bogus coords a bit.

I know of one specific case in Arizona where the final coords of a puzzle cache and the posted coords of a second traditional cache are within 4 feet!

 

Dave, The Cow Spots