Confusing/ambiguous To-reach Or Station Name

[+Black Dog Trackers]

This topic may serve as a place to get assistance from the group (and the NGS) on either the To-Reach or the Stamping/Designation of problematic PIDs.

 

This topic is for Not-Found marks.

Obviously if you find it, you can fix the to-reach description. For the Designation, what the database says rules and no attempt should be made to revise it.

 

Anyway, the writeup of HV1555 is quite odd.

 

The Designation is Mitchell 2 PB & PP 1931, but one of the recovery notes says "Stamped Mitchell No. 7" and another recovery note says: "Station mark is stamped Mitchell No 1, not Mitchell No 7. Perhaps the disk is rather hard to read.

 

The 1946 recovery report says that the station was renamed "GRAVEYARD" in 1931. The 1931 monumentation report does not mention any name change, but the 1937 recovery report does, so the 1946 report probably was a misprint. I don't understand what "renamed" means when there's no mention of a replacement disk with different stamping.

 

The writeup of HV1555 also describes two completely different settings:

 

1.) A disk set in a native granite stone 8 inches square at the top, larger at the bottom, and about 2 feet long. (The 1931 monumentation report.)

 

2.) A disk set in a 6-inch terra cotta pipe flush with the ground. (The 1937 recovery report with a name change.)

[+seventhings]

BDT -

 

That's a strange history. Reads like the data from two different marks got erroneously consolidated onto a single datasheet.

 

Too bad you didn't find it. Really too bad you didn't find two marks - one in granite and one in a terra cotta pipe.

 

7

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I figure one more try next winter when all the leaves of the underbrush are gone.

[ArtMan]

I've looked for this one too, BDT. I feel your pain.

 

This park has a map posted near the parking area which shows location of some now-vanished landmarks, but ground vegetation and ample canapy which interferes with GPS reception - in addition to the description irregularities - make this a tough one.

 

-ArtMan-

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Well, between the 3 of us, we ought to be able to get somewhere with it someday. The description sorely needs to be fixed.

 

I did creep into the hugest pile of underbrush and found a big rock in there, but no disk. A person walking her dog looked back seemingly in horror as I suddenly appeared out of the vines and underbrush and stumbled out into the evening twilight.

[ArtMan]

I did creep into the hugest pile of underbrush and found a big rock in there, but no disk. A person walking her dog looked back seemingly in horror as I suddenly appeared out of the vines and underbrush and stumbled out into the evening twilight.

Next time, cover yourself with cicadas for that popular camo look!

 

-ArtMan-

[Difficult Run]

Sorry to bring up an old thread.

 

I hunted for this mark last Sunday and again today. Using a stainless steel probe, I found numerous rocks but no disk... I REALLY want to find this one as it shares my first name. Besides, it’s a gravity station, a real rarity!

 

Here are some observations I made:

The park has been doing some clearing in the area, and the ground vegetation is minimal. I was fortunate enough to have good satellite reception and confident that I was in the right place. Now is a good time to recover this mark, if it still exists. Here’s a picture of the area.

 

At the right-center of the photo, notice the rather tall boxwood tree. This tree is over 100 years old and probably denoted a corner of the cemetery mentioned in the description. It is about 40 feet south of the adjusted coordinates. On the left of the photo is a large cherry tree, but probably not the same tree as mentioned in the description.

 

Now, let’s confuse things just a little bit more…

 

About 600 feet NNE of the coordinates are the remains of the Donaldson Family Cemetery. (N38 54 48.6 W77 06 25.0) I found evidence of it on a 1956 USGS map. That cemetery was moved in 1962 and the graves reinterred at Columbia Gardens Cemetery. I wonder if there are two stations that got merged into one datasheet as Seventhings has suggested. Here’s the 1956 topo map.

 

This is a good case for looking at the ORIGINAL field notes, if they are available.

Hey Casey and Dave - (Hint Hint!)

 

I’m looking forward to any thoughts folks might have on this dilemma.

 

~ Mitch ~

[CallawayMT]

DR,

 

So where is your Radio Shack Metal Detector?

 

CallawayMT

Edited January 15, 2007 by CallawayMT

[Difficult Run]

DR,

 

So where is your Radio Shack Metal Detector?

 

CallawayMT

I have a Whites metal detector. Unfortunately, the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority prohibits the use of metal detectors in thier park system because of Civil War relic hunters. Remember, during the Civil War, Washington was surrounded by Union Troops and Forts, especially on high ground.

 

I'm going to contact the park manager this week and present my case. Perhaps he will grant an exception since the area and target are well defined.

 

Yesterday I did confirm the existance of the Donaldson Family Cemetery's location, which is about 0.1 mile away. Were there two cemeteries, both containing Donaldsons?

 

The more I think about this one, the mystery grows.

 

~ D.R. ~

[+PFF]

Google for "graveyards" in the region. Look for the websites of folks who compile inventories of who's buried where. These people are as passionate about their hobby as we are about benchmarks. (And most of them have a GPS receiver!)

 

In North Carolina, such contacts have helped me locate some of the 1898 Meridian Markers in cemeteries.

 

Good luck with this one, and keep the group posted....

 

-Paul-

[ArtMan]

The U.S. Board of Geographic Names (Dept. of Interior/USGS) lists the Donaldson Family Graveyard (historical) near this location. However, the cemetery coordinates can be probably considered only approximate since the source is a 20-year-old genealogy publication. I hope Difficult Run asks park historical or archaeological authorities if they have more information on the precise location of the cemetery. They may have maps of the area.

 

-ArtMan-

[Difficult Run]

Thanks Art!

 

The link you posted matches my coordinates on the second Donaldson Family Graveyard, (the one about 600 feet NNE of the posted coordinates).

 

Now for the good stuff - I found an index to Graveyards of Arlington County, (excluding Columbia Gardens and Arlington Cemetery), which lists not one, but TWO destroyed cemeteries named Donaldson. Now, I'm beginning to think there's only one gravity/triangulation station instead of two merged into one datasheet.

 

Looks like I'll be heading to the library tomorrow to confirm this.

 

YOU ROCK ART!

 

~ D.R. ~

[+t8r]

Thanks Art!

 

The link you posted matches my coordinates on the second Donaldson Family Graveyard, (the one about 600 feet NNE of the posted coordinates).

 

Please pardon me for breaking into your thread. I did so because you folks seem to be quite knowlegable about triangulation stations. I am working on 2 of them. The one is in rock and sage with little sand and finding the staion was no problem as there was a witness post. A little wandering around with the description in mind found the 2 reference marks. However the azimuth disc seems to be hiding under something. part of the description from 1935 involves a "brush line". Well, you know that aint much help!

My question is: Is it safe to assume that the azimuth disc would be on a north south line with the station disc?

The other T station is completely burried in a sand dune that is covered over with grass. The co-ords are scaled and are off at least 200 feet off from the description. Same question as above! (OZ1006 and NV1148)

Thanks, The Tater,

[+t8r]

Thanks Art!

 

The link you posted matches my coordinates on the second Donaldson Family Graveyard, (the one about 600 feet NNE of the posted coordinates).

 

Please pardon me for breaking into your thread. I did so because you folks seem to be quite knowlegable about triangulation stations. I am working on 2 of them. The one is in rock and sage with little sand and finding the staion was no problem as there was a witness post. A little wandering around with the description in mind found the 2 reference marks. However the azimuth disc seems to be hiding under something. part of the description from 1935 involves a "brush line". Well, you know that aint much help!

My question is: Is it safe to assume that the azimuth disc would be on a north south line with the station disc?

The other T station is completely burried in a sand dune that is covered over with grass. The co-ords are scaled and are off at least 200 feet off from the description. Same question as above! (OZ1006 and NV1148)

Thanks, The Tater,

 

oops,

I think I found my answer in the original datasheet.

Looks like i should have wandered off in the 66° direction for that.

Thes basalt must be somewhat magnetic, the compas really spooky here.

Your comments would still be appreciated

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

...

However the azimuth disc seems to be hiding under something. part of the description from 1935 involves a "brush line". Well, you know that aint much help!

My question is: Is it safe to assume that the azimuth disc would be on a north south line with the station disc?

The other T station is completely burried in a sand dune that is covered over with grass. The co-ords are scaled and are off at least 200 feet off from the description. Same question as above! (OZ1006 and NV1148)

Thanks, The Tater,

 

oops,

I think I found my answer in the original datasheet.

Looks like i should have wandered off in the 66° direction for that.

Thes basalt must be somewhat magnetic, the compas really spooky here.

Your comments would still be appreciated

As you discovered, the Azimuth mark is not true north of the station, but rather a specified azimuth from the station. It's farther away than the reference marks - sometimes a mile or more - so that the angle can be more precicely measured. In the box score they will generally give the angle, accurate to a tenth of a second (the reference mark azimuths are usually just given to 1 minute accuracy). But they usually don't give a distance, or if they do, it's approximate. That's because, unlike the reference marks, it was too far away to measure with a tape.

 

The few that's I've found were those that have good descriptions based on local landmarks. Suffice it to say that these are harder to find than most any other marks.

[mloser]

I see you have learned how to read the "box score". For triangulation stations keep that handy. If all the marks are not visible you can use the distances and directions to reference marks to find either the reference mark(s) or the main station if you have located a RM. The azimuth is a bit trickier as Papa-Bear mentioned. Usually they are described a bit better, but since there are no real landmarks on top of a mesa the one you are looking for has a very simple description. Your best bet is to plot it on a topo if possible and see if any particular spot seems likely. I looked at the topo for that mark and while I was not able to actually measure an angle, I am pretty sure the azimuth is along the southeast edge of the mesa northeast of the station. Your best bet is to walk along it and see what you can see. By setting a GOTO for the station you can stay at approximately 66 degrees. While some azimuth marks are up to a mile away from the station, most are about 1/2 mile or so, and some, like this one, are quite a bit closer. I have seen them as close as 100 feet or so.

 

As for your second tri-station. if you are talking about NV1148, it is not scaled, but is actually adjusted, and your GPSr should be right on. Tri-stations DEPEND on their coords being precise--in fact they are precise to sub-centimeter levels. The Topozone link shows the coords exactly at the station.

[Difficult Run]

I'm happy to report that the station was found today and the mystery solved.

 

..... almost.

 

The mark matches the 1931 monumentation report, but not the later recoveries.

It is unstamped, set in a native stone, about 7-8" diameter on top and at ground level.

Later reports note the disk set in a 6" terra-cotta pipe and stamped Mitchell 1, Mitchell 2 or Mitchell 7.

 

So, what happened?

 

Perhaps the subsequent recoveries were describing a nearby reference mark or the documentation / transcription of the field reports got fouled up. Who knows? Anyone care to speculate?

 

I spoke with the county surveyor last month who is very interested in recovering this mark and he offered to bring a survey grade gps to find the station. I'll call him this week and give him the update. Hopefully, he'll still be willing to take a reading on the monument.

 

(Station was flagged with orange tape so Artman, BDT and Seventhings can also log this mark).

 

A special thank you goes to Martin Ogle, Chief Naturalist for the Potomac Overlook Regional Park who gave verbal permission for the brief use of a metal detector and witnessed the recovery. Otherwise, this station would still be lost!

 

I'd love to hear any comments or observations on why the description is so goofed up!

 

~ Mitch ~

 

P.S. - It's only fitting that I finally found a station with my first name on it. Whoot Whoot!

Edited March 5, 2007 by Difficult Run

[+Harry Dolphin]

This one has me confused. (Of course, that's not difficult to do...)

KV0505

The coordinates are atrocious! (Where ever the benchmark is.) .9 mile 'west' along Rte 5 does lead to a bridge. (Only .49 miles off from the coordinates!) The Bergen Blvd bridge over Rte 5. (It would have been very nice to put that in the description!) We were unable to locate a benchmark on the east wingwall of the bridge, despite "BM #10" painted on the guard rail. The concrete is crumbling, so it may be missing. There is nothing on the headwall. But, he asked, in all innocence, shouldn't a KV benchmark be located west of 74º W??? East of 74º, the designation is KU. Is this sort of error common?

[ArtMan]

I'm happy to report that the station was found today and the mystery solved.

 

..... almost.

Mitch called me yesterday evening to share the good news.

 

I'm looking forward to getting home before dark one of these days and recovering this station myself, even though it feels a bit like cheating since Difficult Run did all the work.

 

(Incidentally, Difficult Run is the name of a stream that flows from Virginia into the Potomac at Great Falls, a about 10 miles upstream from Washington, at 38 58 34N, 77 14 6W.)

 

What I think is noteworthy about Mitch's recovery is that he went beyond the usual tools of datasheet, map, GPS, etc. Both at HV1555 and elsewhere, he has done extensive research, including purchasing detailed county maps, acquiring old aerial photos, and finding the right people with the right knowledge to accomplish the task.

 

Well done!

 

-ArtMan-

[+seventhings]

Mitch -

 

Great find; great narrative.

 

Will

[Difficult Run]

Thank you Artman and Seventhings for the kind words.

 

I've always relished researching and digging for clues, (doesn't everyone here?).

And since y'all, (BDT included) have done such a comprehensive job in logging nearly every benchmark in the D.C. area, I'm left with finding the more obscure marks, which I thoroughly enjoy!

 

BTW, the county surveyor e-mailed me back today and is still interested in getting an observation on this gravity station. He's checking his schedule and hopes to take gps readings in the near future.

 

Hopefully, I can find the second mark which now appears to be about 600 ft. NNE as Seventhings originally posted. The east boundary of the Donaldson Cemetery can still be determined by a 4-pronged oak tree and the remains of a berm. So, you know where I'll be at this coming weekend.

 

Now, if I can just get my hands on the original field notes!

(Casey and Dave - are your ears burning?)

 

~ Mitch ~

[+genegene]

Black dog, here's an idea for you to you to try. go to your library and ask for topo maps dating back to the early 1900's. i have done that in the past to find old celler holes in my area and to my amazment they help out when looking for old buildings that are no longer there

[ArtMan]

A limited number of historical topo maps from the Northeast and Middle Atlantic regions are online at Maptech.com.

 

-ArtMan-