Why Garmin Why?!

[Tahoe Skier5000]

I've been thinking about purchasing a Foretrex 201 for skiing purposes next season. It seems like a perfect toy/tool for the job.

 

My only complaint is that it comes with a built-in rechargeable!! I hate these batteries! Not only can you not switch them on the go, but they are expensive to replace when they die! Does anyone have any information on this? Can you buy the batteries somewhere? How much does Garmin charge to replace them?

 

If they are anything like the li-ion batteries in most cell phones, you'll have to get them changed every year or so.

[Magellin]

It shouldnt be too expensive to replace 2 aa lionz.

with care and practace they can outlast alky batts by far and save you $ in the long run.

Just remember to fully discharge the batts, and allow unit to cool before recharging. lionz as well as all rechargables have a "memory" and if you fail to discharge the batts completly before recharging you will "lower" the effective reserve capacity of the lionz.

I wound't wery, I would be glad!

[Tahoe Skier5000]

It shouldnt be too expensive to replace 2 aa lionz.

with care and practace they can outlast alky batts by far and save you $ in the long run.

Just remember to fully discharge the batts, and allow unit to cool before recharging. lionz as well as all rechargables have a "memory" and if you fail to discharge the batts completly before recharging you will "lower" the effective reserve capacity of the lionz.

I wound't wery, I would be glad!

Thanks for the post. I don't use alkalines though... I use rechargable NIMH. I think using those would be a much better idea since you can change them out, and they are only $10 at the store.

 

Anyway... I'm thinking it might be a forerunner 101 since that does accept regular batteries. I sure hope this new thing doesn't become a trend at Garmin...

Edited May 15, 2004 by vw_ev

[Magellin]

Nickies are to be Charged the same as Lionz only you have to be very sure that they are fully discharged (Use a bulb of the same voltage and connect over night),

And (dont quote me on this) Nickies might not last as long due to the metals used and might have as much or more Merc in them as Alkies due.

[Tahoe Skier5000]

Nickies are to be Charged the same as Lionz only you have to be very sure that they are fully discharged (Use a bulb of the same voltage and connect over night),

And (dont quote me on this) Nickies might not last as long due to the metals used and might have as much or more Merc in them as Alkies due.

I fact of the matter is, I don't want to have to send my unit back to garmin to have the battery replaced when it does eventually die. I would like to do it myself... That being said, does anyone know if they can be purchased elsewhere?

[kerecsen]

Just remember to fully discharge the batts, and allow unit to cool before recharging. lionz as well as all rechargables have a "memory" and if you fail to discharge the batts completly before recharging you will "lower" the effective reserve capacity of the lionz.

I recently performed some research on battery types and most sources recommend a different charging regimen. NiMH batteries can be recharged whenever convenient, with rare conditioning runs where you discharge and recharge them fully. Note however that full discharge doesn't mean connecting the battery on a light bulb or such; it only means running it down to about 1 V. Connecting a resistor-type load for a long duration will lead to deep discharge below 1 V which could reduce the lifetime of the battery.

 

Here is a rather comprehensive summary on this subject:

http://dpfwiw.com/batteries.htm#management

 

LiIon batteries are radically different from NiCD and NiMH. They do not have a memory effect, and they hate being deep-discharged. In fact they have protective circuits to stop them from being discharged under 2.5 V (where they could explode, or be permanently damaged). Sometimes if you trigger this circuit (and allow some time for additional self-discharge), you won't be able to recharge the battery anymore.

It is recommended to recharge LiIon when they have used up about 80% of their capacity, and to discharge them fully as seldom as possible.

 

It is interesting to note that Li-ion batteries -- more so than their NiMH or NiCD counterparts -- have a shelf life. Whether you use the battery or not, it will keep losing capacity. The consensus here is that LiIon batteries should be stored about half-charged in a cool place (but not frozen).

 

Leaving your battery (or your GPS containing the battery) fully charged in a hot car almost guarantees to kill the battery in as little as 6 months.

 

Details:

http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page6.asp

http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap15-page2.asp

 

A few additional links on the subject of batteries:

http://www.cadex.com/gen_arch.asp

http://www.buchmann.ca/default.asp

http://home.att.net/~mikemelni1/battery.html

http://data.energizer.com/batteryinfo/appl...tal_hydride.htm

[+JeepCachr]

I just got a foretrex 201 2 days ago. It does not appear that the end user can replace the battery. If this is a concern fir you get the foretrex 101. The only difference is the 101 takes 2 AAA's and is .3 inches thicker. The 101 was supposed to be available May 14 but I haven't seen any one with them in stock.

 

I love my 201. The concerns I had with no Dc charger and no backup can be resolved with a cig cord cable and battery extender pack from pc-mobile foretrex cables.

[Tahoe Skier5000]

I just got a foretrex 201 2 days ago. It does not appear that the end user can replace the battery. If this is a concern fir you get the foretrex 101. The only difference is the 101 takes 2 AAA's and is .3 inches thicker. The 101 was supposed to be available May 14 but I haven't seen any one with them in stock.

 

I love my 201. The concerns I had with no Dc charger and no backup can be resolved with a cig cord cable and battery extender pack from pc-mobile foretrex cables.

Thanks Jeep, thats exactly what I was looking for!

 

I realize the memory effects suffered by NiMH, but the price to replace NiMH rechargables is far less than a Li-Ion. Not to mention the fact that sending it in to have this procedure done is completely inconvenient, time consuming, and costly (in itself). You can also get 400+ cycles out of NIMH if properly cared for...

 

The other reason I find the internal Li-Ion a bad idea is the fact that they gradually lose strength over time. After about 100 cycles, you'll start to notice decreased stamina and instead of the advertised 15 hours runtime, you might be getting 9 or 10, 5 or 6, and lower. This could potentially be dangerous if you are relying on your GPS to give you a certain amount of hours of usage and it dies on you when you really need it. I don't like knowing that my GPS is constantly 'dying'...

 

Oh well, I just hope Garmin doesn't continue this trend of installing unservicable internal batteries in all of their GPS's.

Edited May 15, 2004 by vw_ev

[+NightPilot]

There are essentially no memory effects with NiMH. You're thinking about NiCd, which is a different battery technology completely. NiCd batteries do take a memory, and need to be fully discharged occasionally. NiMH batteries should be charged often and never allowed to run completely down. The only similarity is that both contain nickel.

[stevesisti]

There are essentially no memory effects with NiMH. You're thinking about NiCd, which is a different battery technology completely. NiCd batteries do take a memory, and need to be fully discharged occasionally. NiMH batteries should be charged often and never allowed to run completely down. The only similarity is that both contain nickel.

Maybe a little bit off topic...but I wonder. For all us otdoorsey type people, battery types and options have always presented a problem from GPs's to cameras, to sonar units etc. My main gripe is that we all like the "cost and convenience" of Ni-MH batteries...that's a given...the only problem is that in most cases, back-up NI-MH batteries are "proprietary" batteries, with a significant cost for keeping a "spare-on-hand". Additionally, my understanding is the NI-MH rechargeables have a very high "self discharge" rate. Fully charged, if you don't use your unit, in three weeks you have a problem.....Why can't most manufatures make a simple easy alkaline backup pack...alkaline cause you can leave them for months or longer and they still maintain their full capacity...no self discharge. The weight of carrying a small alkaline backup pack is really insignificant, but guarantees that even after months of bad "power management (laziness)", in the worst case you still are "good to go" for at least a days worrth of usage.

 

Also would be nice if everyone standarized on AA batteries or other for smaller electronic equipment.... then you could carry a single size batt (spare AA's) and the light weight plastic "back-up" packs for your particular unit. Why duplicate the effort from radio, to gps, to sonar, to camera, to CD and on and on.

[+JeepCachr]

Maybe a little bit off topic...but I wonder. For all us otdoorsey type people, battery types and options have always presented a problem from GPs's to cameras, to sonar units etc. My main gripe is that we all like the "cost and convenience" of Ni-MH batteries...that's a given...the only problem is that in most cases, back-up NI-MH batteries are "proprietary" batteries, with a significant cost for keeping a "spare-on-hand". Additionally, my understanding is the NI-MH rechargeables have a very high "self discharge" rate. Fully charged, if you don't use your unit, in three weeks you have a problem.....Why can't most manufatures make a simple easy alkaline backup pack...alkaline cause you can leave them for months or longer and they still maintain their full capacity...no self discharge. The weight of carrying a small alkaline backup pack is really insignificant, but guarantees that even after months of bad "power management (laziness)", in the worst case you still are "good to go" for at least a days worrth of usage.

 

Also would be nice if everyone standarized on AA batteries or other for smaller electronic equipment.... then you could carry a single size batt (spare AA's) and the light weight plastic "back-up" packs for your particular unit. Why duplicate the effort from radio, to gps, to sonar, to camera, to CD and on and on.

You have some valid points and some unreasonable requests.

 

With the foretrex 201 I purchased a AA battery extender. It plugs into the unit and recharges the internal battery. It can also charge my ipaq, my bluetooth GPS or anything that can charge from a USB port. I can carry disposable AA batterys and I'm supposed to get 2-3 full recharges for my ipaq from one set of AA's. For me this resolves the problem of having a backup. This option isn't available from the manufacture but even if it was I would still likely buy it cheaper from a third party vendor.

 

Manufactures can't standardize on AA batterys because people want things smaller. If the only diff between the 101 and the 201 was the rechargeable battery I would have gone the 101 route and bought rechargeable AA's for it. The difference in these 2 units is the 101 is .3 inch thicker. I didn't want it to be bigger so I went with the rechargeable. I'm not worried about the life of the battery since I am certain that I will upgrade to a new GPS before the battery starts to lose capacity. At $140 its not a huge investment and in 2 years I'll likely spend another $140 for one thats even smaller, has better features, and longer battery life. Now if it was a $500 60CS I would be hesitant to buy it with a non user serviceable battery. My bluetooth GPS uses a Nokia phone battery pack. This is a great idea but that unit is not water proof.