Private Property Caches Abound

[+The AIIM Team]

OK. I know my colleagues in caching locally read this forum. So I am going out on a limb here.

 

I think there are a lot of caches that are on private property with no permission requested or granted.

 

Am I a "narc" as we used to say in school, for even caring? When the cache description only says "lots of muggles around during the work week, better off after hours and weekends" and I go there and find it's a private business with a clear No Trespassing sign or just an unfenced private business with a neat place to hide a cache and get in and out quickly is that OK according to the rules? I don't think so the way I read them, and I am uncomfortable doing them.

 

One possible rebuttal to my comments is "so don't do the ones you are uncomfortable with." Well, it's pretty annoying when I line up 6 caches for a lunch break (I got to 3 and found one, TYVM) and most of them are on the property of a business or an office park.

 

I find this a lot. I know the local geocaching group, I am a founding member of it and was on the board. Many of them are guilty of this. If there is anything to be "guilty" of that is, which is the purpose of this post.

 

So, am I a narc, or am I missing some finer point? Please clarify.

 

Ivan

[+welch]

OK. I know my colleagues in caching locally read this forum. So, am I a narc, or am I missing some finer point? Please clarify.

The best suggestion would be to actually attempt the cache, (you've done that its seems) then contact the owner for ones you have questions about. It may really be on public land, or perhaps it is private but they have permission. Otherwise your just assuming things and you know what they say about that...

 

ps- wondering doesn't make you a narc, 'turning them in' does!

[+The AIIM Team]

I know darn well by the wording on the cache page that no permission has been asked nor received. If so it would be no big deal to cache there during the day, barring letting some passing geocacher see where the spot is!

 

Thanks for your response.

[+welch]

I know darn well by the wording on the cache page that no permission has been asked nor received. If so it would be no big deal to cache there during the day, barring letting some passing geocacher see where the spot is!

 

Thanks for your response.

See, you're assuming that... unless the description says "this cache doesn't have permission, don't get seen logging the cache"

Being seen by non-cachers can lead to the cache being stolen

 

If its the owner doesn't respond to your inquiry, I would suggest the next step would be to contact the nearest gc.com approver or cacher group if there is one. They may know more about the specifics and can advise.

[+The AIIM Team]

I get your point. I am on a rules discovery mission at this time. I could very easily alienate myself from an otherwise great group of cachers if I go off half cocked. Thanks again.

[Keystone]

If its the owner doesn't respond to your inquiry, I would suggest the next step would be to contact the nearest gc.com approver or cacher group if there is one. They may know more about the specifics and can advise.

In most cases, I don't know what the regional volunteer cache reviewer can do to shed light on the issue of permission. Geocaching.com is just a listing service and it is up to the cache owner to obtain permission prior to submitting their cache. As stated in the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines:

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived.

This statement means:

1. If the reviewer sees obvious statements on the SUBMITTED cache page regarding the absence of permission or the presence of no trespassing signs at the cache site, the cache will be questioned and may be archived. I emphasize "submitted" because changes can be made to the text of the cache page after it is reviewed.

2. If the reviewer is aware of a published geocaching policy on the part of the land owner / land manager for the property where the cache is placed, the reviewer can ask the cache owner specifically about compliance with that policy. For example, many State Parks have published geocaching policies and it is an easy proposition to ask about a permit when a cache shows up in a State Park.

3. If there is no applicable published geocaching policy, and no mention of trespassing, etc., on the cache page, then the reviewer assumes that the owner has complied with the guideline quoted above regarding having adequate permission.

 

Thus, for example, if The AIM Team is seeing a lot of microcaches hidden in the parking lots of Piggly Wiggly Grocery Stores, there is not very much that the volunteer reviewer can say, unless Piggly Wiggly has a published geocaching policy. Assume that the Florida volunteer cache reviewer is not aware of Piggly Wiggly having a published geocaching policy. Therefore, it is purely a matter for discussion with the cache owner.

 

If, on the other hand, Piggly Wiggly were to contact Geocaching.com regarding a cache placed on their property without permission, then the Requirements/Guidelines document says the following:

If the Geocaching.com web site is contacted and informed that your cache has been placed inappropriately, your cache will be archived or disabled and you will be contacted with any information provided by the individual or organization who contacted us.

I hope that this explanation of the volunteer cache reviewer's role is helpful to you.

Edited November 24, 2003 by Keystone Approver

[+erik88l-r]

....a lot of microcaches hidden in the parking lots of Piggly Wiggly Grocery Stores....

 

Interestingly, in my area a lot of micros are hidden in the parking lots of Publix Grocery Stores, by an employee of the chain.

 

There are areas like parking lots of grocery stores, shopping malls, universities, etc. that I see as "public" by virtue of the fact that they are there for the public to park. I guess they're there for the public to park their cars, not their geocaches, but as a cache approver I don't get too concerned about caches being placed in locations like these unless I know that the grocery store, shopping mall, or college has objected in the past. I think we have to expect common sense in not placing micros where people will tear up the store's shrubbery or where people will be viewed as a nuisance, but beyond that I'd hate to try to micro manage this.

 

erik - geocaching.com admin

[+The AIIM Team]

Erik's point about "public" places is well made, but I am not talking about those places. There are caches that are say attached to an ATM machine beneath the bush line in a big strip mall that fall under his definition. A cache I found today is in a city owned "park and ride" lot that is not used besides Jaguars games. THat is another example of a "public" place.

 

The caches I am talking about are on, in one case, a manufacturing plant's property that has an interesting ground level sign. The cache is in the sign. The other one is in a small suburban office park that happends to have a boardwalk in the center of it. Both are posted no trespassing, although they are not gated.

 

I do very much appreciate Keystone Approver's time in explaining the meaning of some of the rules. You are correct, my interest lies with the cache placer in these cases. In any case, I know it is polite to start there, not up the chain at the approvers level.

 

Thanks again.

[+WalruZ]

tangental, but...

 

Who wants to place or visit a micro in a grocery store parking lot? Thank goodness these don't show up in my area. (sf bay)

 

I have visited one outside a mediocre irish bar & grill. Many log entries read "This is it?"

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The caches I am talking about are on, in one case, a manufacturing plant's property that has an interesting ground level sign. The cache is in the sign. The other one is in a small suburban office park that happends to have a boardwalk in the center of it. Both are posted no trespassing, although they are not gated.

I placed a cache where I work. Generally speaking, trespassing is prohibited. There are signs that say this. There is however, a buffer zone by way of an exercise trail that is open to the public. My cache is on the public side of the No Trespassing signs, but is technically on company property. There have been no problems with the cache since I placed it early this year. I have discovered half a dozen employees who are Geocachers since placing this cache.

[+TEAM 360]

I placed a cache where I work. Generally speaking, trespassing is prohibited. There are signs that say this. There is however, a buffer zone by way of an exercise trail that is open to the public. My cache is on the public side of the No Trespassing signs, but is technically on company property. There have been no problems with the cache since I placed it early this year.

Then why were they shooting at me when I went to get that one?

[+welch]

Then why were they shooting at me when I went to get that one?

You were wearing a mask and dressed in black

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Then why were they shooting at me when I went to get that one? 

You were wearing a mask and dressed in black

Considering it was 100 degrees out when you were here and were in fact wearing solid black, you either looked like a terrorist or a pirate