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Geocaching.com Financial Plan


DisQuoi

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A common response I've been reading to the question of why pay for membership is that it costs money to run geocaching.com. Jeremy's made it clear that ultimately, he's like to do this full time. Also, new hardware and bandwidth is required. I estimate IT life cycle costs for a living and generally, the annual cost of maintaining software and hardware is 20 percent of the acquisition cost (a $5000 server requires $1000 per year to properly maintain it). A full-time IT specialist (Jeremy) is estimated to cost $100 per hour ($208,000 per year) for salary/benefits/overhead. That's not profit, it's salary.

 

I think I know what people are saying. We all want to [communally] support this effort but are perhaps hesitant to "enrich" anyone while doing it. We want to keep this "non-profit" especially so that there's no conflict with use of public lands. (Remember, "non-profit" does not mean Jeremy pays for it all).

 

So ... here's my question:

 

How many new servers do you need at what acquisition cost and when? What additional software must you purchase? Do you require office space to properly run the web site? How many square-feet? What percentage of your time do you want to devote? 50 percent? 100 percent? What salary do you require (be fair to yourself). Do you require additional staff? How much band-width do you require?

 

That's how much it costs us to play. No one's getting rich here. Some of us need new hiking shoes? That's in addition to these costs, not instead of them.

 

Here's the second part?

 

How much net income do you receive from sales of t-shirts and stickers? What are the commission revenues from Garmin? How many active geocachers are there (potential members)? Based on Dan Miller's last statistic, about 11,000 active over a three month period.

 

I have a feeling that this community would be willing to support you as a non-profit effort. Consider us stakeholders as well as customers.

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Look at the 3 letters after the period. They are COM which stands for Commercial. This is America if somebody can generate a service for a price so be it. Those that don't like it should try to go to another realm in this world.

Why the huff, Jeremy has the right to place this kind of Cache. If we want to contribute our cache that is our business, or if we want to cache out that is our business. Nothing is free in this world. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

The "Bushwhacker"

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Look at the 3 letters after the period. They are COM which stands for Commercial. This is America if somebody can generate a service for a price so be it. Those that don't like it should try to go to another realm in this world.

Why the huff, Jeremy has the right to place this kind of Cache. If we want to contribute our cache that is our business, or if we want to cache out that is our business. Nothing is free in this world. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

The "Bushwhacker"

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quote:
Originally posted by The Bees:

Sorry... I don't see the difference between stakeholder and shareholder.

 

Looks like the same double-speak and creative wording that sank Enron.


 

Creative wording and double-speak that isn't. Keeping with the Enron example. The employees, shareholders, City of Houston, construction companies, and suppliers of Enron were all stakeholders. Stakeholders are not just the people investing in a business. They are also the people who benefit from that entity existing. Local charities in Houston got big dollars from Enron, the Houston Astros HAD Enron Field. The citizens of Houston had a stake- even if they didn't work there because their city benefitted from a thriving Enron.

 

We all have a stake in this thing called Geocaching, and to a certain extent, this website. Tracy and I are not getting any money from Geocaching.com, are not stockholders, but are concerned about the well-being of the website. Our Geocaching activities are tied to this site, thus we have a stake in seeing its continued success.

 

Richard

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I'm sorry if I confused you. My post was intended to be more of a starting point to discuss the need to raise money (and how much) for Jeremy to adequately help us to continue the fine activity (as opposed to some people complaining that this should all be "free").

 

"Stakeholder/Shareholder" has nothing to do with double-speak any more than "Postman/Policeman" (they are both occupations?). However, they're two different words, which is why they occupy two places in a dictionary. It's more of a matter of english. After the King’s reply, I posted the Oxford English Dictionary definitions to clarify the difference. Other than the fact that they both start with the same letter and end in the same suffix, I can't see why you would compare this to Enron. Enron was a mis-statement of revenues over periods of several fiscal years. They didn’t define “revenue” according to GAAP standards. But that was more of a case of one word defined in two ways, not two words each with their own meaning. Can you please clarify your analogy to Enron?

 

Tecmage, thanks ... we were both responding at the same time but I think your response is more well put.

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Originally posted by DisQuoi:

 

I think I know what people are saying. We all want to [communally] support this effort but are perhaps hesitant to "enrich" anyone while doing it. We want to keep this "non-profit" especially so that there's no conflict with use of public lands. (Remember, "non-profit" does _not_ mean Jeremy pays for it all).

[qoute]

 

As an executive director of a non-profit organization, I should point out that people can be "enriched" by a non-profit. I certainly earn a salary from the organization that I work for.

 

A couple points: The "dot com" in the URL does imply that the site is commercial, but that is not legally binding. There are many non-profit organizations that have "dot com" sites, rather than "dot org".

 

The primary difference between a for-profit (commercial) corporation and a non-profit corporation is that in a for-profit org, people can become "shareholders" and purchase shares or stock in the business. If the business does well, they receive divends, or payments, based on the amount that they have invested.

 

Non-profit organizations do not have shareholders. They may (or may not) have members. These members are sometimes called "stakeholders" because they share a common cause, have a stake in the success of the org., and philosophically support its actions. Members of a non-profit can receive benefits from being a member, such as discounts, newsletters, etc., but are not paid a percentage of the orgs. proceeds as in a for-profit business.

 

Of course, this entire discussion is purely academic, as Jeremy has incorporated "Grounded" (Grounded, Inc.)...don't know if it was incorporated as a stock (profit) corp. or as a non-stock (non-profit) corp...I'd assume that it is the former.

 

Scott

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... or is the weekend ... like the last two days going to be spent with a glass of whine and a plate of forum ....

 

  • I'm going to put gas (ie, money) in the Suzuki ... and go caching ...

 

I've already put some money in trade items ... to go caching ....

 

I'm going to spend some money for lunch ... while caching ....

 

Oh, and I put some money into www.geocaching.com ... so it can function ... so I can go caching ....

 

Come on guys ... let's get back on track ... icon_biggrin.gif

 

PS ... Rivercacher ... Rev.War? No kidding ... I belonged to a F&I War group when I lived in Pa ... lot of fun.

 

348_1002.gif

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... or is the weekend ... like the last two days going to be spent with a glass of whine and a plate of forum ....

 

  • I'm going to put gas (ie, money) in the Suzuki ... and go caching ...

 

I've already put some money in trade items ... to go caching ....

 

I'm going to spend some money for lunch ... while caching ....

 

Oh, and I put some money into www.geocaching.com ... so it can function ... so I can go caching ....

 

Come on guys ... let's get back on track ... icon_biggrin.gif

 

PS ... Rivercacher ... Rev.War? No kidding ... I belonged to a F&I War group when I lived in Pa ... lot of fun.

 

348_1002.gif

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Excellent idea, Hawkeye...I went and found a cache just after posting that message! Or was it just before? Oh well.

 

>Oh, and I put some money into >www.geocaching.com ... so it can function ... so >I can go caching ....

 

Me too. I gave my $3 for the month of March today.

 

>PS ... Rivercacher ... Rev.War? No kidding ... I >belonged to a F&I War group when I lived in >Pa ... lot of fun.

 

Yup, Gaskins' Virginia Battalion of 1781. www.virginiacampaign.org/gaskins

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Well, I am not quite sure how this would work, but if there were some way I could generate a little income from this hobby, I would definitely give it a serious look. I would be inclined to purchase stock whatever the arrangment was in Groundspeak, if that time ever came. However, I doubt it will, since the reason most companies go public is to raise needed funds for implementation of aggressive growth strategies. Given the fact that Geocaching.com/Groundspeak already has its growth strategy in place, I wouldn't think that there would be an immediate need for cash that will dramatically exceed that which can be generated by the current revenue stream.

 

Interesting, though, since Tslack and I were discussing this very thing yesterday as we sped across Utah's West Desert on one of those mega-multi-cache hunts. I would like to be a shareholder, not necessarily for the income (although that wouldn't hurt) but just to be able to say that I was one. I have gotten a lot from this sport, and I wouldn't mind giving/getting even more. Just so I don't go too broke. icon_smile.gif

 

bunkerdave

6327_1600.gif

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Well, I am not quite sure how this would work, but if there were some way I could generate a little income from this hobby, I would definitely give it a serious look. I would be inclined to purchase stock whatever the arrangment was in Groundspeak, if that time ever came. However, I doubt it will, since the reason most companies go public is to raise needed funds for implementation of aggressive growth strategies. Given the fact that Geocaching.com/Groundspeak already has its growth strategy in place, I wouldn't think that there would be an immediate need for cash that will dramatically exceed that which can be generated by the current revenue stream.

 

Interesting, though, since Tslack and I were discussing this very thing yesterday as we sped across Utah's West Desert on one of those mega-multi-cache hunts. I would like to be a shareholder, not necessarily for the income (although that wouldn't hurt) but just to be able to say that I was one. I have gotten a lot from this sport, and I wouldn't mind giving/getting even more. Just so I don't go too broke. icon_smile.gif

 

bunkerdave

6327_1600.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

... or is the weekend ... like the last two days going to be spent with a glass of whine and a plate of forum ....

 

I'm going to put gas (ie, money) in the Suzuki ... and go caching ...

 

I've already put some money in trade items ... to go caching ....

 

I'm going to spend some money for lunch ... while caching ....

 

Oh, and I put some money into http://www.geocaching.com ... so it can function ... so I can go caching ....

 

Come on guys ... let's get back on track ... icon_biggrin.gif

 

PS ... Rivercacher ... Rev.War? No kidding ... I belonged to a F&I War group when I lived in Pa ... lot of fun.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/348_1002.gif


The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was that lame song that was out last year "Because I got High" ... Anyone who knows what I'm talking about can see the correlation icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

 

Godzirra (roar)

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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

... or is the weekend ... like the last two days going to be spent with a glass of whine and a plate of forum ....

 

I'm going to put gas (ie, money) in the Suzuki ... and go caching ...

 

I've already put some money in trade items ... to go caching ....

 

I'm going to spend some money for lunch ... while caching ....

 

Oh, and I put some money into http://www.geocaching.com ... so it can function ... so I can go caching ....

 

Come on guys ... let's get back on track ... icon_biggrin.gif

 

PS ... Rivercacher ... Rev.War? No kidding ... I belonged to a F&I War group when I lived in Pa ... lot of fun.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/348_1002.gif


The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was that lame song that was out last year "Because I got High" ... Anyone who knows what I'm talking about can see the correlation icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

 

Godzirra (roar)

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quote:
Originally posted by Godzirra:

...The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was that lame song that was out last year "Because I got High" ... Anyone who knows what I'm talking about can see the correlation icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

 

Godzirra (roar)


 

I'm sorry ... Let me speak S L O W E R .... G O .. F I N D .. A .. C A C H E .. A N D ... Q U I T ... C O M P L A I N I N G

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

348_1002.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Godzirra:

...The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was that lame song that was out last year "Because I got High" ... Anyone who knows what I'm talking about can see the correlation icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

 

Godzirra (roar)


 

I'm sorry ... Let me speak S L O W E R .... G O .. F I N D .. A .. C A C H E .. A N D ... Q U I T ... C O M P L A I N I N G

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

348_1002.gif

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God forbid anyone should actually see any rewards or profit from two years of hard work and out-of-pocket expenses for a mass of ungrateful, selfish, childish, and whiners complete with an unbelievably disturbing sense of entitlement. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Listen. This is Jeremey's site. HIS. There are other geo-orienting games, and other "geocaching" sites like Navicache. If what Jeremy is planning to do with his invested two years of personal time and personal funds bugs you, go away. Find somewhere or something else to play. This isn't your sandbox. If Jeremy decides that all cachers must agree to some TOS with their logins, he can. This is HIS VERSION of this game hosted and "distributed" on HIS SITE. If you think you can do it better, cheaper, differently...go right ahead and do it. Free country and all that.

 

This is really not a very difficult concept.

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God forbid anyone should actually see any rewards or profit from two years of hard work and out-of-pocket expenses for a mass of ungrateful, selfish, childish, and whiners complete with an unbelievably disturbing sense of entitlement. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Listen. This is Jeremey's site. HIS. There are other geo-orienting games, and other "geocaching" sites like Navicache. If what Jeremy is planning to do with his invested two years of personal time and personal funds bugs you, go away. Find somewhere or something else to play. This isn't your sandbox. If Jeremy decides that all cachers must agree to some TOS with their logins, he can. This is HIS VERSION of this game hosted and "distributed" on HIS SITE. If you think you can do it better, cheaper, differently...go right ahead and do it. Free country and all that.

 

This is really not a very difficult concept.

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