Would you "rat" on a geocache rule-breaker?

[+welch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan2:

"Now remember Ivan. You come tell us here at the KGB if you see your mommy or your daddy praying or reading any of that Western literature trash."

 

"It's important to be a patriot for your Motherland!"

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uh??

 

have the site admins been killing people for illegally placing caches?

 

[BigDoggie]

Jesus, people, lighten up. This was a question, to be answered YES or NO. SOme people answered YES, some answered NO. It isn't necessary to make disparaging remarks about people who voted the other way.

 

Opinions are like ***holes: everybody has at least one.

[+Alan2]

Haven't you noticed that some of our most prolific forum posters are no longer around. Makes you wonder. I think there's a conspiracy going on. Makes me shudder!

 

Alan

[+Team StitchesOnQuilts]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigDoggie:

 

Society has chosen a group of people whose job it is to detect and respond to "illegal activity". Most of us are not members of that group.

 

---

 

So, if I see an illegally placed cache, you want me to call that group of people? (I assume you mean the police department.) Doesn't that seem a little harsh? I can't imagine getting the police involved in a matter of a cache that was simply placed in the wrong place. Seems like it would be a lot nicer to just contact the cache owner first.

 

Personally, if I got a polite email stating that my cache was illegally placed, I'd be grateful to the person for letting me know. I might ask a question about how they figured out it was illegally placed, so I could have more information on how to figure out a new place for it.

 

I'd be really unhappy, though, to have the police show up at my home or cache and "settle the matter".

 

Shannah

[+Team StitchesOnQuilts]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigDoggie:

 

Society has chosen a group of people whose job it is to detect and respond to "illegal activity". Most of us are not members of that group.

 

---

 

So, if I see an illegally placed cache, you want me to call that group of people? (I assume you mean the police department.) Doesn't that seem a little harsh? I can't imagine getting the police involved in a matter of a cache that was simply placed in the wrong place. Seems like it would be a lot nicer to just contact the cache owner first.

 

Personally, if I got a polite email stating that my cache was illegally placed, I'd be grateful to the person for letting me know. I might ask a question about how they figured out it was illegally placed, so I could have more information on how to figure out a new place for it.

 

I'd be really unhappy, though, to have the police show up at my home or cache and "settle the matter".

 

Shannah

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

Sometimes it is up to others to protect the morons and inconsiderate a-holes in this world.

[. . .]

Man, I really gotta quit reading this thread. It is just reinforcing my suspicion of how many dimwits there really are in the world.

---

 

I'm with you, but for a subtle difference.

I'm hoping we STOP protecting "morons and inconsiderate a-holes" and let natural selection thin the herd a bit.

But that's not what self-policing is about. It's about protecting the majority of decent, well meaning folk against the few "morons and inconsiderate a-holes" who pass legislation restricting everyone because of a few bad apples.

 

Of COURSE it's up to each of us to police our interests (and the woods)! DUH! That we've entrusted a few of us with extra training and extra legal authority to enforce laws and keep the peace does not abrogate every individual of the need to be involved in what does on around them!

 

ApK

[BigDoggie]

quote:

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Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts:

 

So, if I see an illegally placed cache, you want me to call that group of people? (I assume you mean the police department.)

Shannah

---

 

Not at all. I want you to MYOB.

 

Well, not quite. If you feel that a cache is inappropriate, by all means drop the hider a note. If s/he agrees, fine. If not, then you should MYOB.

[+wcgreen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Texas-Gal:

quote:

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It’s right at the high tide line so I think ownership is moot.

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Just to clarify, in case you or anyone else was wondering about this issue, when property is located along a body of water, property lines almost always extend out tens (or even hundreds) of feet out into that body of water - with exceptions only when specifically delineated in the deed as recorded with the county/city.

---

 

"Laws governing beach access vary from state to state.

 

"In Florida, if people have used a certain beach for a long time, they have the right to continue to use that beach. Property owners can claim the sand, but ownership only goes to the mean high tide line, an unclear boundary somewhere between the high and low water marks."

 

Just to note--the law in Texas may not be the law elsewhere.

 

--

Wendy Chatley Green

wcgreen@eudoramail.com

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigDoggie:

 

Not at all. I want you to MYOB.

---

 

Hopefully people will choose not to oblige you.

 

Every killer, rapist, thief, child abuser and corrupt politician wants that too. Think about your reasons for wanting that.

 

ApK

[BigDoggie]

quote:

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Originally posted by ApK:

 

Every killer, rapist, thief, child abuser and corrupt politician wants that too. Think about your reasons for wanting that.

 

ApK

---

 

Comparing a geocacher who hides a cache behind the wrong bush to killers and rapists... This is just laughable.

[+Criminal]

Not to say that the following is necessarily my philosophy, but it does have merit to this topic.

 

Some people look at laws (or rules/regulations) as having two distinct categories. 1. Things that will get me put in jail and 2. Things that will result in another form of punishment. (Of course there are people who break it down further into life in prison or a short stint, but that’s not really my point) People who push 5 to 10 MPH above the posted speed limit do this every time they knowingly exceed the limit. They know they are breaking the law and feel the risk is acceptable. Bringing home a ream of printer paper from work would also fall into category 2, illegal (stealing) but unlikely to result in prison. For those of you whose blood is boiling right about now, relax, I’m not advocating these things, I’m just pointing out a simple reality. Placing a geocache in a known “illegal” location would also fall into category 2 MOST times. Private property and certain federal and local government properties would push you easily into category 1 though. If I were to place a cache atop a water tower that would likely fall into cat 1 right? What if I put a cache in the national forest? Will I go to jail? No. Will you go to jail for finding it? No. (Of course your reaction when confronted could push you into cat 1 should you say, punch the forest ranger or something. Nonetheless, simply hiding or finding are cat 2)

 

My point is that placing a cache, either knowingly or as in most cases unknowingly, in a location where someone somewhere could interpret it as being illegal has, is, and will happen from time to time. Is it my obligation to report it to the hider, the geocache admin, or the authorities? No. As a strong believer in “do unto others” I would notify the hider of my concern, but my concern would stop there (barring any real safety hazard). I would make a note in my log entry for that cache about the legal dangers involved in my finding or not finding it.

 

Comparing a geocache hidden behind the Taco Bell dumpster to murder or rape is preposterous.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigDoggie:

 

Comparing a geocacher who hides a cache behind the wrong bush to killers and rapists... This is just laughable.

---

 

I did no such thing. I commented on the attitude of social irresponsibility that would suggest it's wrong to take action against an illegality or that it's right to ignore what your fellow citizens do.

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Criminal:

Not to say that the following is necessarily my philosophy, but it does have merit to this topic.

---

 

I think it's greatest merit is illustrating what a pathetic disregard for social order some people have and why our justice system is so inneffective.

 

It's not even like this philosphy is touting civil disobedience, where unjust laws must be disregarded, it's saying "if I'm not going to get caught and go to jail, there's no reason I shouldn't do it."

 

quote:

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Comparing a geocache hidden behind the Taco Bell dumpster to murder or rape is preposterous.

---

 

See my reply to Big Doggie.

 

I find it amusing that neither respondant to that comment took issue with the reference to child abusers or corrupt politicians. I'm sure they feel they're not doing anything wrong, too.

 

ApK

[+welch]

i had noticed the "change of faces", but i think that most of them are absent by their own choice, unfortunatly

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan2:

Haven't you noticed that some of our most prolific forum posters are no longer around. Makes you wonder. I think there's a conspiracy going on. Makes me shudder!

 

Alan

---

 

 

[This message was edited by welch on August 27, 2002 at 01:08 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by welch on August 28, 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

[+welch]

i had noticed the "change of faces", but i think that most of them are absent by their own choice, unfortunatly

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan2:

Haven't you noticed that some of our most prolific forum posters are no longer around. Makes you wonder. I think there's a conspiracy going on. Makes me shudder!

 

Alan

---

 

 

[This message was edited by welch on August 27, 2002 at 01:08 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by welch on August 28, 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

[+Criminal]

Some's is juss better folks than others........

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[BigDoggie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ApK:

I find it amusing that neither respondant to that comment took issue with the reference to child abusers or corrupt politicians.

ApK

---

 

And we find it amusing that, despite your denials, you obviously ARE comparing geocachers to killers, rapists, thieves, child abusers and corrupt politicians.

 

There, now are you happy?

[+ApK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigDoggie:

quote:

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Originally posted by ApK:

I find it amusing that neither respondant to that comment took issue with the reference to child abusers or corrupt politicians.

ApK

---

 

And we find it amusing that, despite your denials, you obviously ARE comparing geocachers to killers, rapists, thieves, child abusers and corrupt politicians.

 

There, now are you happy?

---

 

Who is the "we" you are speaking for?

[+Alan2]

Maybe they're busy checking up on illegal caches. I can't imagine they're doing anything more important than that.

alan

[+briansnat]

Lets stick to the issue. If you find a Geocache that is on private property, in violation of area regulations, or impacting the environment, it should be addressed. Every rogue geocache gives the rest of us a black eye. The "authorities" are out to get us in many areas. Cache placements in inappropriate areas only serve to provide these authorities with ammunition and the end result will be the banning of our sport in more areas.

 

Rogue mountain bikers, backpackers, ATVers and hunters, et. al., have caused these sports to be banned, or heavily regulated in many areas. Why? Because there were people who flouted the rules and spoiled it for the rest of the participants.

 

My point is that people who break the rules (whether you agree with them or not) are doing a disservice to the cause of Geocaching.

 

If we want Geocaching to continue as a viable sport, we'll have to police our own ranks. If someone places a cache in an inappropriate area

it is our duty to let them know. If they continue to flout our written and un-written rules, then we should bring the issue to the attention of this Geocaching community.

 

There are many people who are working with the local authorities to try allow our sport to continue. They often point them to our website to prove how responsible we are. If you were a land manager who was on the fence about Geocaching and read this thread, consider how it would effect your decision

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Kelle

[+ApK]

quote:

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My point is that people who break the rules (whether you agree with them or not) are doing a disservice to the cause of Geocaching.

---

 

I agree, and I believe I was staying on point.

 

My reductio ad absurdum argument, the so-called "comparison", was to show that the attitude toward breaking the law was bad for reasons bigger than geocaching as a game.

 

To clarify my argument (and hopefully be done with it, unless someone wants to argue that tresspassing is a GOOD thing.), it's much the same as recruits in boot camp being made to fold thier clothes a certain way or lace thier boots a certain way to tech them "attention to detail"...they may be in charge of firing missles and steering ships some day. No one thinks that missfolding a shirt is "comparable" to sinking a ship, but the attitudes and behaviors learned are hopefully carried over. Similarly, kids that pull the wings off of butterflies and torture kittens, are not rapists, murders, or corrupt politicians, but they (and society) may be served by having thier behaviours and attitudes modified before they grow up.

 

ApK

[expatriate]

I'm new here... so perhaps my opinion isn't valid, but I see a link! East vs. West...

 

I grew up upstate New York, but have lived in NY, IL, FL, HI, WA, GU (that's Guam), Alberta and British Columbia. I'm an avid outdoors enthusiast wherever I have lived. My perception is that there is a difference to the sanctity (and availability) of both public and private land, particularly noticable east to west. Where it's crowded, people value and guard it more. Where it's not crowded, it's assumed it's fair game, as long as you treat it properly. Notice that Canadians haven't joined into this discussion...they can't relate! Here forestry companies open their roads to the public during non-working hours. Hiking trail cross private and public land. Very few gates. Intertidal areas cannot be owned, except in few water lease cases. Hence the name expatriot, I guess...

[expatriate]

I'm new here... so perhaps my opinion isn't valid, but I see a link! East vs. West...

 

I grew up upstate New York, but have lived in NY, IL, FL, HI, WA, GU (that's Guam), Alberta and British Columbia. I'm an avid outdoors enthusiast wherever I have lived. My perception is that there is a difference to the sanctity (and availability) of both public and private land, particularly noticable east to west. Where it's crowded, people value and guard it more. Where it's not crowded, it's assumed it's fair game, as long as you treat it properly. Notice that Canadians haven't joined into this discussion...they can't relate! Here forestry companies open their roads to the public during non-working hours. Hiking trail cross private and public land. Very few gates. Intertidal areas cannot be owned, except in few water lease cases. Hence the name expatriot, I guess...