+ApK Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Does anyone have any knowledge about the new 'location-enabled' cell phones that are available, which will theoretically support such features as Enhanced-911 and relevant nearby traffic reports, etc? Several phones from Motorola and Samsug and others on display at the local shop say "Includes GPS chip for e-911 and location-based services." Just going on a gut feeling based on form factor, cost and other issues, I'm betting they don't mean satallite-based NAVSTAR GPS that we all know and love (it's hard to remember sometimes that 'gps' is really a generic term), but rather some other positioning technology entirely...maybe triangulation of cell sites? Thanks, ApK Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I was wondering if the cell site GPS will be used to enhance future handheld receivers. Like a super WAAS web or something. Would it be more or less accurate? Another question. What was it that made the FCC ban GPS coordinates on the GMRS freqs? Sending the coords or sending data? If it was the coords why are the cells allowed to? If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do. Mokita! Quote Link to comment
+ApK Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by leatherman:Another question. What was it that made the FCC ban GPS coordinates on the GMRS freqs? Sending the coords or sending data? It would have to be because it's data, not voice. Nothing prhibits you from 'saying' your coords over the air. GMRS is a voice-only service with specific permissions in the RULES for stuff like squelch tones and morse code. By the way, does this mean that the Rino is now illegal? quote:If it was the coords why are the cells allowed to? Different services have different rules...that's why there are different services. And even if it was less clear cut than that, don't get me started on the government 'creatively interpreting' the law to do whatever they want. Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by ApK: By the way, does this mean that the Rino is now illegal? If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do. Mokita! Quote Link to comment
peter Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by ApK:It would have to be because it's data, not voice. Nothing prhibits you from 'saying' your coords over the air. GMRS is a voice-only service with specific permissions in the http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr95_00.html for stuff like squelch tones and morse code. By the way, does this mean that the Rino is now illegal? No, the Rino's are allowed to send coordinate data over the FRS channels (but not GMRS) based on a special exemption obtained by Garmin from the FCC. On the original question, there are several technical approaches being used by cellular/PCS carriers to comply with the E911 rules regarding location. Some are using signal-delay and/or angular measurements with smart antennas from the cell base station positions to estimate the user's location, but others are equiping the handsets with GPS capability. These use the same GPS satellite signals as our eTrex/Meridians/etc., but there are some advantages in having it integrated in a mobile phone. The approximate location is known by the base station and the current satellite ephemeris data can be sent over the cellular network. That allows the handset to lock onto the satellite signals very rapidly compared to a 'cold' or 'warm-start' for a regular GPS receiver. Therefore battery power requirements are minimized since the unit can just 'wake-up' occasionally to get a position fix. Much of the data processing can also be done by the base station or other parts of the cellular network and minimizing the hardware and power requirements for the handset. Quote Link to comment
haela Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I could be wrong on this, but I remember reading that my Samsung (with Sprint service) can only tell where I am as long as I'm in PCS area. The new "GPS" leashes that you can put on your kids also only work in PCS areas, also from what I read. I'm guessing that it has nothing to do with GPS at all and it's all in the heads of the PCS networks. Quote Link to comment
+ApK Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Kara and Hugo:I could be wrong on this, but I remember reading that my Samsung (with Sprint service) can only tell where I am as long as I'm in PCS area. Interesting. Can your phone display it's location? Like Lat/Lon or similar? quote:The new "GPS" leashes that you can put on your kids also only work in PCS areas, also from what I read. Good idea, and a kid-leash qualifies as a location-based services. There are kid-leash type things available that do use the Navstar GPS, and also use the cellular system to report the location to you. I'm thinking of Digital Angel. ApK Quote Link to comment
+ApK Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by peter:No, the Rino's are allowed to send coordinate data over the FRS channels (but not GMRS) based on a special exemption obtained by Garmin from the FCC. Rats. If I'm close enough for FRS, who needs gps info. ;-) quote:..., but others are equiping the handsets with GPS capability. These use the same GPS satellite signals as our eTrex/Meridians/etc Interesting...do you know who's doing what? As in, what phones/systems actually use Navstar vs. the other technologies you mention? Seems that pretty soon, we can just carry a cell phone that will let us download the cache info from the web and navigate right to it.... ApK Quote Link to comment
+EtrexRose Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I dont even care really, is it really usefull? or just nice to have? Quote Link to comment
peter Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 quote:Originally posted by ApK: quote:Originally posted by peter:..., but others are equiping the handsets with GPS capability. These use the same GPS satellite signals as our eTrex/Meridians/etc Interesting...do you know who's doing what? As in, what phones/systems actually use Navstar vs. the other technologies you mention? Seems that pretty soon, we can just carry a cell phone that will let us download the cache info from the web and navigate right to it.... ApK The ones that explicitly mention "GPS," like Sprint PCS, are using the NavStar satellite signals. Cingular and AT&T are using triangulation techniques from the base station locations. As I mentioned previously, the GPS-based approach also depends on data transmitted through the cellular/PCS network to reduce the lock times and processing requirements enough for reaonable battery life. Therefore the handset will only know its location when it's receiving both the satellite signals and signals from a suitably equipped cellular/PCS network. Although the primary impetus for the location upgrade is the FCC madate for E911, the carriers will be looking for ways to recoup their investment in the technology. So expect to see a host of location-based services both as extra-cost user options and for advertising revenues. Quote Link to comment
valenrandy Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I have the samsung n400 and it has the "Position Location" thingy on it. It currently does not work on any phone as the system is not up yet. To be used with e-911, and other services. It be nice if i could use my phone to find caches. I have sprint pcs with vision ValenRandy03 Quote Link to comment
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