Seattle Space Needle Lab Cache

[+famerlor_dragon]

Hi,

we ran around the needle for 20 minutes only to later find out that they completely removed the sign you need to answer the lab cache.

 

Can someone please PM me the answer? I'd like to log that cache, too, since we've been there.

 

And if someone (else) from HQ is listening: Consider this a needs maintenance log. Our notification during the the HQ tour apparently did not yet reach the lab cache owner.

 

Cheers

famerlor_dragon

[+hzoi]

10 hours ago, famerlor_dragon said:

Can someone please PM me the answer? I'd like to log that cache, too, since we've been there.

So, you didn't satisfy the requirements for a cache, but...you'd like to log it anyway?

This is the sort of behavior that made "Greetings from Germany" infamous on virtual geocaches.  If the sign isn't there, the lab cache is gone.  It looks like you've got plenty of cache finds in Washington to commemorate your visit without trying to log a cache that isn't there anymore.

[+famerlor_dragon]

13 hours ago, hzoi said:

So, you didn't satisfy the requirements for a cache, but...you'd like to log it anyway?

 

The cache requirements "cannot be satisfied" is a bit different from "I didn't satisfy".

 

Also, the lab caches asks for "proof that I was there" not any action in particular so I find your reply rather inappropriate to be quite honest (not that I wasn't expecting the geo police).

 

Anyways, good luck trying to archive that HQ lab cache while you are at it.

 

Greetings from Mt. Rainier

[+hzoi]

13 hours ago, famerlor_dragon said:

The cache requirements "cannot be satisfied" is a bit different from "I didn't satisfy".

OK.  The requirements cannot be satisfied; therefore, you didn't satisfy the requirements.  Still begs the question why you think you're entitled to a find. 

If one expects to find a PETling but find only a zip tie and no cache, one should notify the owner that the cache is missing and needs maintenance.  But it's not a find, because "the cache requirements cannot be satisfied" -- i.e., find container, sign log.

If one visits the site of a virtual cache and discovers that a required sign, or statue, or marker is missing, one should notify the owner that the virtual cache needs maintenance.  But it's not a find, because "the cache requirements cannot be satisfied" -- i.e., find object, report dates or whatever the logging task.

This isn't Foursquare.  Showing up is part of geocaching, but it is only the first part.

If your post had been a comment to other potential visitors that a sign needed for the Space Needle lab cache was missing and that you were working with Groundspeak for a solution, then I would not have blinked an eye.  Maybe even thought, "Nice job.  That's integrity."  But it wasn't, and here we are.

Edited August 23, 2017 by hzoi

[+famerlor_dragon]

Give me a break.

While I was at HQ on Friday, I told them but they did not have the code at hand. Not sure how high lab caches rank on their maintenance list. Nothing has changed so far.

As for your comments:

Everybody caches a bit differently, but if the cache is clearly missing (broken) and the owner (team) is ok with me logging, I occasionally do log DNF as a find in particular if I live about 5000 miles away and cannot return. Things get muggled, it's unintentional, everybody is supposed to have fun, it's a game.

I do like that you treat DNF seriously but your approach needs a bit more Fingerspitzengefühl in my opinion. 

Anyways, I don't think we are getting anywhere discussing this in writing so I'll drop out at this point and rather send HQ an email.

[+oldschool]

Generally speaking, if the requirements were not met it cannot be logged as "Found".  Asking someone else for the information needed in order to log the cache is also cheating.  If the cache is no longer available to be found, the owner needs to be contacted as well as Groundspeak so the cache can be archived.  Your visit needs to be logged as a dnf and there needs to be a comment about how the cache information is missing.  Wanting to log it without completing it is the sort of moral/ethical dilemma that has caused problems in the past.  On a personal note and a long time cache owner, I've removed people from my caches that logged the cache as found but never did find the cache or sign the logbook.

Edited August 29, 2017 by oldschool

[+famerlor_dragon]

Again, I am with you. But a lab cache is just something else than a physical cache. It is about having been there rather than completing a task. There's not even a DNF for lab caches. Also, as I mentioned before, the inability to find a cache is different from a cache being unintentionally incompletable.

 

On another note, the owner of the lab cache has added the find code to the listing for everyone to complete the cache rather than being frustrated for not being able to do so. Joy over technicalities I'd call it.

Edited August 30, 2017 by famerlor_dragon