Challenge checker for series of mistery caches

[+vit.vizual]

We created the ART-series of puzzles in Kyiv, Ukraine (Kyiv symbol series). In total, there are 70 caches in the series. Is it possibility to create a challenge checker for these specific series caches?

[+Touchstone]

I suppose you could have a Project GC Challenge Checker made for that series, but you'd have to go over to that website and check with them.  In general, the Checkers are made specifically for each Listing page, and have to be built by one of the Volunteers over on that site.

[Keystone]

I looked at your series of caches and they did not look like challenge caches.  If you are asking whether a challenge cache can be published that requires finding each of the caches in your Kyiv symbol series, the answer is no.  A challenge cache cannot require finding a specified list of caches.

[+vit.vizual]

6 hours ago, Keystone said:

I looked at your series of caches and they did not look like challenge caches.  If you are asking whether a challenge cache can be published that requires finding each of the caches in your Kyiv symbol series, the answer is no.  A challenge cache cannot require finding a specified list of caches.

Thanks for the answer. It's strange that there is no way to make a "challenge" for finding the whole caches series. Ok, we will try to think how to make a "challenge" for this area.

[Keystone]

You can make a "series bonus cache" -- a Mystery Cache with clues hidden in other caches that are part of the series.  But, you cannot require that a geocacher find every cache in the series as an Additional Logging Requirement for finding the series bonus cache. 

[+vit.vizual]

On 23.07.2017 at 4:33 PM, Keystone said:

I looked at your series of caches and they did not look like challenge caches.  If you are asking whether a challenge cache can be published that requires finding each of the caches in your Kyiv symbol series, the answer is no.  A challenge cache cannot require finding a specified list of caches.

Is it allowed to open a "Challenge" for caches in the area of a point with coordinates? I tried to create a pocket-query for a point with coordinates N50 ° 23.269 E30 ° 30.623 and a radius of 1 kilometer. This area include the all of caches of our  ART- series. Thanks.

[+thebruce0]

The only 'regions' you're allowed for a challenge are Counties, States/Provinces, and Countries. User-defined boundaries (including point and radius) aren't allowed.  But who knows, you could be granted an exception if you convince someone higher up.  Always worth trying just in case, imo. But I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[+Touchstone]

28 minutes ago, vit.vizual said:

Is it allowed to open a "Challenge" for caches in the area of a point with coordinates? I tried to create a pocket-query for a point with coordinates N50 ° 23.269 E30 ° 30.623 and a radius of 1 kilometer. This area include the all of caches of our  ART- series. Thanks.

 

See item #10 in the following Help Center article:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206

 

As thebruce0 pointed out, the region designed Challenges are very restricted now.  I'm not sure I'd bother getting my hopes up on that one.

[+niraD]

53 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

As thebruce0 pointed out, the region designed Challenges are very restricted now.  I'm not sure I'd bother getting my hopes up on that one.

On the other hand, if you do manage to appeal successfully and get Groundspeak to allow simple geometric regions (e.g., circles or rectangles), then that would make a number of people happy.

Not that I think you should get your hopes up either...

[+Team Hugs]

On 7/23/2017 at 9:33 AM, Keystone said:

A challenge cache cannot require finding a specified list of caches.

 

May I ask a clarifying question about this?

 

As I read the current Guidelines, I read this particular guideline as a prohibition on a challenge cache depending on finding a specified list of caches belonging to one cache owner.   I was unclear regarding whether other types of lists of caches might be eligible for a challenge.

 

So, let me illustrate by a couple examples.  

 

1.  Here in Michigan, there are a number of pre-moratorium challenge caches: the "Historic Caches of [Name] County" series.   For each of them, one qualifies for the challenge by finding five of the seven oldest active caches in the county, which are conveniently listed for reference on the page itself.   (Cachers demonstrate their qualifications by posting the dates of the eligible finds.)   If one of the named old caches is archived, the list of oldest active caches is updated appropriately with the next oldest active cache.   Each cache is owned and maintained by a different local cacher.

 

Understanding that past approval of any particular cache implies nothing about future approval of similar caches ... in your judgment as a current reviewer, would such a challenge cache be approved today?   Why or why not?

 

2.  In the same vein ... there are thirty of these challenge caches in Michigan.   So, of course, someone established (pre-moratorium) the meta-challenge cache.   One qualifies by logging finds on ten of those challenge caches (which, of course, means meeting the individual qualifications for all of those).   Would such a meta-challenge cache be approved today?   Why or why not?

[Keystone]

It's generally unwise to rely upon a pre-moratorium challenge as precedent for a challenge cache under current guidelines.  Instead, follow the Help Center guidance or write to your friendly local reviewer about your idea.

[+Team Hugs]

19 minutes ago, Keystone said:

It's generally unwise to rely upon a pre-moratorium challenge as precedent for a challenge cache under current guidelines.  Instead, follow the Help Center guidance or write to your friendly local reviewer about your idea.

 

Well ... I was asking because I found the cited Help Center guidance ambiguous, and I'm all too aware of the (non-)role of precedent in cache approval.    I don't have an idea for a new challenge cache, so contacting my friendly local reviewer (and, yes, he is friendly) isn't really appropriate.   I'll just have to live in the ambiguity for now.  

 

 

[+palmetto]

in Reviewer mode to  Team Hugs ~

 

Question 1. Work has been done by some project gc checker writers to handle, "find of oldest cache active at the time you logged it within region X" . This  different from log of oldest currently active.  One can be published, possibly  and the other cannot.

 

Question 2. A challenge can be created  to have log 10 Mystery caches in Michigan, but NOT 10 Challenge caches in Michigan, (text/title dependent) and certainly not 10 challenges of a specific flavor (county oldest).  

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by palmetto
speeling

[+NYPaddleCacher]

16 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

The only 'regions' you're allowed for a challenge are Counties, States/Provinces, and Countries. User-defined boundaries (including point and radius) aren't allowed.  But who knows, you could be granted an exception if you convince someone higher up.  Always worth trying just in case, imo. But I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

That's the one guideline that was implemented after the moratorium that doesn't make sense to me.  The guideline states that the source of criteria:

 

"must come from information broadly available on Geocaching.com such as on the statistics page, cache placement dates, types, attributes, souvenirs, etc"

and

"Challenge cache criteria may be based upon these geographic areas: countries, states/provinces, counties (or their local equivalent)."

Cache data does included information for the country or states/provinces but  not counties (or their local equivalent). In order to determine if a cache is within a county the challenge checker would have to use the lat/long coordinates and some other external data source to derive wither or not those coordinates are within a county boundary.  It would be even easier to determine if a cache was within a specified radius of a center point (it wouldn't require any additional data other than a set of coordinates).  I suppose the issue could be that countries, states/provinces or counties is a finite list of regions while an arbitrary regions based on a center point or polygon could be almost infinite.  

[+thebruce0]

Yep, I was not a fan of the region thing when it was finalized; it was a big hullaballoo right when challenges were opened again.  I can understand having one smaller region than state/province though, and counties (generically) are the next most objective, even though that particular element isn't included in the listing; but PGC has them defined, so GS must have felt that that was sufficient since checkers (via PGC) are required. Counties are not strictly "user-defined". Their size is typically large enough as well, and their shape make it very very hard to create "pattern" style user-defined boundaries - which is where the denial of degree/minute 'regions' began. Those boundaries are repetitive and 'small' enough that users can create patterns from them (larger scale user-defined boundary), so they're denied (just like specific Ds and Ts that could form a pattern on the grid).  Try creating a 'pattern' with counties. Even if you could, it's clear you're creating a pattern, and as a user-defined boundary, which would be denied. But, you can make challenges that require specific counties, individual or a list.

All of that would be subject to local reviewer judgement, of course, but those have been my experiences in our area.