Stupid question...

[+CachingCubmaster]

I know this is a stupid question, but is a preform considered a XS (micro) or a Small? They're larger than the bison tubes and other items I am using as micros, but I'm not sure of the sizing of a preform.

[+kunarion]

Here's a good info page about container sizes: https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=97&pgid=815

[+Corp Of Discovery]

They are a micro.

[+GeePa]

I have seen more and more preforms listed as a small lately. I think this is mostly because small trade items can fit in a preform if the log doesn't take up too much space.

[+lee737]

If the preform is over 100mL, you could call it small.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

Wanted to add to my brief post earlier with a bit of background and a couple of more in depth observations:

 

I've been using preforms since late 2003/early 2004 as sig items and while placing hides.

 

In my experience most of the regularly used preforms are well under the 100 milliliter limit. From the website where I get mine: "Preforms are ~11 cm long x 2.5 cm in diameter (~4.3 in. x 1 in.). Interior volume of preform is approximately 25 cc (~0.84 fluid oz).". I measured one of the ones I have on hand (not from the site quoted above) and the inside measurements are about 22mm diameter and about 143mm long. That comes out to 54.33142ml of volume, according to this site. I also took the same preform, filled it with water and poured it into a measuring cup. It came out to almost exactly a quarter of a cup. That converts to 59.14706ml. I used that particular preform because it's a bit larger than most I see. I have seen some preforms that could be called small, but those are few and far between.

 

The only times I've seen 'trade items' in a common preform they've interfered with the functionality either by making it hard to get at the log or by causing the cap to not fit on correctly, thus causing it to take on moisture. Just because you can try and put something in container, doesn't mean you should. I could, for instance, probably put a BB or air gun pellet into a common nano (Mr. Magneto or Bison tube), but would that really be a good idea? I would say no, for the same reasons I mentioned above with regards to a preform.

[+hzoi]

Wanted to add to my brief post earlier with a bit of background and a couple of more in depth observations:

 

I've been using preforms since late 2003/early 2004 as sig items and while placing hides.

 

In my experience most of the regularly used preforms are well under the 100 milliliter limit. From the website where I get mine: "Preforms are ~11 cm long x 2.5 cm in diameter (~4.3 in. x 1 in.). Interior volume of preform is approximately 25 cc (~0.84 fluid oz).". I measured one of the ones I have on hand (not from the site quoted above) and the inside measurements are about 22mm diameter and about 143mm long. That comes out to 54.33142ml of volume, according to this site. I also took the same preform, filled it with water and poured it into a measuring cup. It came out to almost exactly a quarter of a cup. That converts to 59.14706ml. I used that particular preform because it's a bit larger than most I see. I have seen some preforms that could be called small, but those are few and far between.

 

The only times I've seen 'trade items' in a common preform they've interfered with the functionality either by making it hard to get at the log or by causing the cap to not fit on correctly, thus causing it to take on moisture. Just because you can try and put something in container, doesn't mean you should. I could, for instance, probably put a BB or air gun pellet into a common nano (Mr. Magneto or Bison tube), but would that really be a good idea? I would say no, for the same reasons I mentioned above with regards to a preform.

 

Have always considered them as micros, even the larger ones. Now I can cite an empirical study.

Edited July 5, 2017 by hzoi

[+J Grouchy]

Preforms are a good example of the container APPEARING to be larger than it really is. Because it's a PREform...meaning it would eventually be formed into something else, namely a larger bottle. This means the walls of the container are actually sort of thick so that when they are heated and expanded, the walls are still thick enough to contain fluid (often carbonated) while still being strong enough to withstand minor impacts. They may LOOK like 'small' containers, but they are very narrow inside. The first time I found one, the log was way down inside and my finger almost got stuck trying to get it down in there to pull the log out.

[+dprovan]

Preforms are a good example of the container APPEARING to be larger than it really is. Because it's a PREform...meaning it would eventually be formed into something else, namely a larger bottle. This means the walls of the container are actually sort of thick so that when they are heated and expanded, the walls are still thick enough to contain fluid (often carbonated) while still being strong enough to withstand minor impacts. They may LOOK like 'small' containers, but they are very narrow inside.

Yeah, I think J Grouchy has described the problem well. I actually consider them small and generally see them listed as small, and perhaps that can be justified by claiming the size is mainly important to tell the seeker what's being looked for, so the displaced volume is what should be reported, not the interior volume. (Not that I know what the displaced volume is...)

 

The important conclusion here is that it isn't a stupid question. My answer would be that, no matter how you slice it, they're near to being in-between, and while they might officially be considered micros, you'll see them listed as either. If you're asking because you're placing a preform, I'd say to follow whatever standard you can glean from your area.

[+niraD]

Preforms are a good example of the container APPEARING to be larger than it really is. Because it's a PREform...meaning it would eventually be formed into something else, namely a larger bottle. This means the walls of the container are actually sort of thick so that when they are heated and expanded, the walls are still thick enough to contain fluid (often carbonated) while still being strong enough to withstand minor impacts. They may LOOK like 'small' containers, but they are very narrow inside.

Yeah, I think J Grouchy has described the problem well. I actually consider them small and generally see them listed as small, and perhaps that can be justified by claiming the size is mainly important to tell the seeker what's being looked for, so the displaced volume is what should be reported, not the interior volume. (Not that I know what the displaced volume is...)

 

The important conclusion here is that it isn't a stupid question. My answer would be that, no matter how you slice it, they're near to being in-between, and while they might officially be considered micros, you'll see them listed as either. If you're asking because you're placing a preform, I'd say to follow whatever standard you can glean from your area.

I would expect the displaced volume of most preforms to be under the 100ml limit as well.

 

I think preforms look bigger than they are because they're long and skinny. It's the same effect that leads shampoo manufacturers to put their products in tall skinny bottles. Likewise, a lot of people don't realize that the typical small Bison tube is less than 10ml, which makes it a nano.

[+J Grouchy]

Preforms are a good example of the container APPEARING to be larger than it really is. Because it's a PREform...meaning it would eventually be formed into something else, namely a larger bottle. This means the walls of the container are actually sort of thick so that when they are heated and expanded, the walls are still thick enough to contain fluid (often carbonated) while still being strong enough to withstand minor impacts. They may LOOK like 'small' containers, but they are very narrow inside.

Yeah, I think J Grouchy has described the problem well. I actually consider them small and generally see them listed as small, and perhaps that can be justified by claiming the size is mainly important to tell the seeker what's being looked for, so the displaced volume is what should be reported, not the interior volume. (Not that I know what the displaced volume is...)

 

The important conclusion here is that it isn't a stupid question. My answer would be that, no matter how you slice it, they're near to being in-between, and while they might officially be considered micros, you'll see them listed as either. If you're asking because you're placing a preform, I'd say to follow whatever standard you can glean from your area.

I would expect the displaced volume of most preforms to be under the 100ml limit as well.

 

I think preforms look bigger than they are because they're long and skinny. It's the same effect that leads shampoo manufacturers to put their products in tall skinny bottles. Likewise, a lot of people don't realize that the typical small Bison tube is less than 10ml, which makes it a nano.

 

Far as I know, there is no "official" nano category or size...so I'm not sure where you get that classification from.

[+niraD]

Likewise, a lot of people don't realize that the typical small Bison tube is less than 10ml, which makes it a nano.

Far as I know, there is no "official" nano category or size...so I'm not sure where you get that classification from.

From the Help Center article Cache container sizes: "Micro containers are less than 100 milliliters. They’re about the size of a film cannister, or smaller. They can hold a tiny logbook or log sheet. If a micro cache is less than 10 milliliters, it’s often called a nano cache."