Abandoned Cache Adoption Events

[+UnHoly453]

 

P.S. I found a cache today where the owner hasn't logged in for 5+ years... the cache is in dire need of maintenance, but it was a great find, and I'd happily adopt it, and take over maintenance. I reported the NM, as have several others in recent months...

 

So did you try to contact the owner to see if they might respond? Sometimes if they are not able to maintain cache they will agree to let you adopt it. You never know.

 

 

P.S. I found a cache today where the owner hasn't logged in for 5+ years... the cache is in dire need of maintenance, but it was a great find, and I'd happily adopt it, and take over maintenance. I reported the NM, as have several others in recent months...

 

So did you try to contact the owner to see if they might respond? Sometimes if they are not able to maintain cache they will agree to let you adopt it. You never know.

 

Of the few that I've NAd - I've emailed and PMd the owner before NAing. None had responded to either method of communication.

 

It would be nice if there was a way to adopt a cache without the CO's response, but that topic has been beaten to death...

 

Of course. I have tried reaching out to the cache owner. No response. I gave that one an NA, and now it is temp disabled. Once it gets archived, I'll go place a new one in it's place, as I feel it was a solid cache.

[+edexter]

My sympathies Unholy453 You have raised an important issue for which Groundspeak and much of the geocaching community has no solution and you can see from some of the responses, "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished". Abandoned caches cause two problems: 1, How to remove the caches from the listing site and 2, How to remove the physical caches.

 

The first problem does have a process in place and though it doesn't work well, or quickly, if followed it does result in abandoned caches being archived eventually. The second problem does not have a solution within the Groundspeak framework. If you read the rules carefully, you will see that Groundspeak specifically and in some detail, makes every aspect of the physical cache the responsibility of the CO. The CO is responsible for placing, maintaining and removing the physical cache, but there is no means to enforce the requirement that archived caches must be removed. Groundspeak is aware of the problem but prefers that it be ignored as it has no means to address it. Groundspeak is a "listing service" and takes responsibility for maintaining the website but not physical caches. Once it is removed from the active cache list, it ceases to be a concern they can address. Adoption is a seldom used and largely failed process as most CO's who stop actively caching are reluctant to give up their caches and folks who abandon them and the game do not respond to adoption requests. Since Groundspeak has no responsibility for the physical cache, they can not reassign ownership.

 

On the local level, if there is a loved classic cache that has been abandoned and efforts to reach the CO fail, folks informally adopt the cache, sometimes announce the fact via a cache note, and take responsibility for maintaining it: In loco parentis. But most abandoned caches simply rot in place. Removal of the cache can, and has in my experience, has lead to the suddenly interested CO claiming "you stole my cache" even when it's a prescription bottle hanging in a tree for over a year. Go figure.

 

So what to do? Since the CO is aware of the requirement to remove the cache and has done nothing about it and is ignoring the requirement to remove it you can either follow policy (pretend it isn't happening and ignore the problem) or remove it as the trash it has become and dispose of it or recycle it as you see fit. It's literally abandoned property (trash) and all good cachers know how to practice CITO, don't they? (Groundspeak can and does sponsor trash removal events but is unable to address the issue of cache removal since it has no actual legal connection to the physical cache.)

 

Best wishes.

edexter

[+WearyTraveler]

My sympathies Unholy453 You have raised an important issue for which Groundspeak and much of the geocaching community has no solution and you can see from some of the responses, "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished". Abandoned caches cause two problems: 1, How to remove the caches from the listing site and 2, How to remove the physical caches.

 

The first problem does have a process in place and though it doesn't work well, or quickly, if followed it does result in abandoned caches being archived eventually. The second problem does not have a solution within the Groundspeak framework. If you read the rules carefully, you will see that Groundspeak specifically and in some detail, makes every aspect of the physical cache the responsibility of the CO. The CO is responsible for placing, maintaining and removing the physical cache, but there is no means to enforce the requirement that archived caches must be removed. Groundspeak is aware of the problem but prefers that it be ignored as it has no means to address it. Groundspeak is a "listing service" and takes responsibility for maintaining the website but not physical caches. Once it is removed from the active cache list, it ceases to be a concern they can address. Adoption is a seldom used and largely failed process as most CO's who stop actively caching are reluctant to give up their caches and folks who abandon them and the game do not respond to adoption requests. Since Groundspeak has no responsibility for the physical cache, they can not reassign ownership.

 

On the local level, if there is a loved classic cache that has been abandoned and efforts to reach the CO fail, folks informally adopt the cache, sometimes announce the fact via a cache note, and take responsibility for maintaining it: In loco parentis. But most abandoned caches simply rot in place. Removal of the cache can, and has in my experience, has lead to the suddenly interested CO claiming "you stole my cache" even when it's a prescription bottle hanging in a tree for over a year. Go figure.

 

So what to do? Since the CO is aware of the requirement to remove the cache and has done nothing about it and is ignoring the requirement to remove it you can either follow policy (pretend it isn't happening and ignore the problem) or remove it as the trash it has become and dispose of it or recycle it as you see fit. It's literally abandoned property (trash) and all good cachers know how to practice CITO, don't they? (Groundspeak can and does sponsor trash removal events but is unable to address the issue of cache removal since it has no actual legal connection to the physical cache.)

 

Best wishes.

edexter

 

Well put.

[+noncentric]

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

 

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

 

What irks me.

 

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

It's been mentioned before. Just because a cacher can't find a cache, even after several attempts, doesn't mean the cache isn't there or isn't maintained. Just because a cache seeker contacts a CO and asks for a hint, but gets no response, doesn't mean the CO has abandoned the cache. <eom>

[+UnHoly453]

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

 

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

 

What irks me.

 

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

It's been mentioned before. Just because a cacher can't find a cache, even after several attempts, doesn't mean the cache isn't there or isn't maintained. Just because a cache seeker contacts a CO and asks for a hint, but gets no response, doesn't mean the CO has abandoned the cache. <eom>

 

We're in no way talking about asking for hints, and not receiving them. Maybe read the actual conversation before chiming in with an accusatory, and irrelevant 'suggestion'. Thanks.

[+UnHoly453]

My sympathies Unholy453 You have raised an important issue for which Groundspeak and much of the geocaching community has no solution and you can see from some of the responses, "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished". Abandoned caches cause two problems: 1, How to remove the caches from the listing site and 2, How to remove the physical caches.

 

The first problem does have a process in place and though it doesn't work well, or quickly, if followed it does result in abandoned caches being archived eventually. The second problem does not have a solution within the Groundspeak framework. If you read the rules carefully, you will see that Groundspeak specifically and in some detail, makes every aspect of the physical cache the responsibility of the CO. The CO is responsible for placing, maintaining and removing the physical cache, but there is no means to enforce the requirement that archived caches must be removed. Groundspeak is aware of the problem but prefers that it be ignored as it has no means to address it. Groundspeak is a "listing service" and takes responsibility for maintaining the website but not physical caches. Once it is removed from the active cache list, it ceases to be a concern they can address. Adoption is a seldom used and largely failed process as most CO's who stop actively caching are reluctant to give up their caches and folks who abandon them and the game do not respond to adoption requests. Since Groundspeak has no responsibility for the physical cache, they can not reassign ownership.

 

On the local level, if there is a loved classic cache that has been abandoned and efforts to reach the CO fail, folks informally adopt the cache, sometimes announce the fact via a cache note, and take responsibility for maintaining it: In loco parentis. But most abandoned caches simply rot in place. Removal of the cache can, and has in my experience, has lead to the suddenly interested CO claiming "you stole my cache" even when it's a prescription bottle hanging in a tree for over a year. Go figure.

 

So what to do? Since the CO is aware of the requirement to remove the cache and has done nothing about it and is ignoring the requirement to remove it you can either follow policy (pretend it isn't happening and ignore the problem) or remove it as the trash it has become and dispose of it or recycle it as you see fit. It's literally abandoned property (trash) and all good cachers know how to practice CITO, don't they? (Groundspeak can and does sponsor trash removal events but is unable to address the issue of cache removal since it has no actual legal connection to the physical cache.)

 

Best wishes.

edexter

 

Very well put. Thanks.

[+L0ne.R]

But most abandoned caches simply rot in place. Removal of the cache can, and has in my experience, has lead to the suddenly interested CO claiming "you stole my cache" even when it's a prescription bottle hanging in a tree for over a year. Go figure.

 

So what to do? Since the CO is aware of the requirement to remove the cache and has done nothing about it and is ignoring the requirement to remove it you can either follow policy (pretend it isn't happening and ignore the problem) or remove it as the trash it has become and dispose of it or recycle it as you see fit. It's literally abandoned property (trash) and all good cachers know how to practice CITO, don't they? (Groundspeak can and does sponsor trash removal events but is unable to address the issue of cache removal since it has no actual legal connection to the physical cache.)

 

From my experience it's people in the forums who claim "you stole his cache". The actual owners could care less. They leave containers rot--unfortunately so do many finders.

I have removed several caches (often with a pristine logsheet in a baggie floating in the boggy mess of contents, but I digress). I NA it. It gets archived by a reviewer. I go back to retrieve the litter. I put the mess in my garage, post a note saying I'll hold on to the container for a month, on or after 30 days after I dispose of the broken container. I have never been contacted by a cache owner asking for their cache back. Occasionally the cache was so gross I wasn't going to put the stinky moldy mess in my garage, it went straight in the dumpster. (Once I gagged it was so gross and smelly, I used my hiking stick to fish it out and carry it to the trash bin--gross, yet no one posted an NA, lots of NMs, owner long gone). If they did contact me, I would gladly give the owner a better quality container to replace their broken mayonnaise jar.

[+noncentric]

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

 

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

 

What irks me.

 

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

It's been mentioned before. Just because a cacher can't find a cache, even after several attempts, doesn't mean the cache isn't there or isn't maintained. Just because a cache seeker contacts a CO and asks for a hint, but gets no response, doesn't mean the CO has abandoned the cache. <eom>

We're in no way talking about asking for hints, and not receiving them. Maybe read the actual conversation before chiming in with an accusatory, and irrelevant 'suggestion'. Thanks.

Excuse you?!

Maybe you should read the actual comments quoted in a post before chiming in with your condescending comments. Thanks!

 

SeattleWayne said he DNF'd a cache several times and he was irked him that he didn't receive hints.

Then you said "hence" it should be removed because it's abandoned/unmaintained.

[+UnHoly453]

But most abandoned caches simply rot in place. Removal of the cache can, and has in my experience, has lead to the suddenly interested CO claiming "you stole my cache" even when it's a prescription bottle hanging in a tree for over a year. Go figure.

 

So what to do? Since the CO is aware of the requirement to remove the cache and has done nothing about it and is ignoring the requirement to remove it you can either follow policy (pretend it isn't happening and ignore the problem) or remove it as the trash it has become and dispose of it or recycle it as you see fit. It's literally abandoned property (trash) and all good cachers know how to practice CITO, don't they? (Groundspeak can and does sponsor trash removal events but is unable to address the issue of cache removal since it has no actual legal connection to the physical cache.)

 

From my experience it's people in the forums who claim "you stole his cache". The actual owners could care less. They leave containers rot--unfortunately so do many finders.

I have removed several caches (often with a pristine logsheet in a baggie floating in the boggy mess of contents, but I digress). I NA it. It gets archived by a reviewer. I go back to retrieve the litter. I put the mess in my garage, post a note saying I'll hold on to the container for a month, on or after 30 days after I dispose of the broken container. I have never been contacted by a cache owner asking for their cache back. Occasionally the cache was so gross I wasn't going to put the stinky moldy mess in my garage, it went straight in the dumpster. (Once I gagged it was so gross and smelly, I used my hiking stick to fish it out and carry it to the trash bin--gross, yet no one posted an NA, lots of NMs, owner long gone). If they did contact me, I would gladly give the owner a better quality container to replace their broken mayonnaise jar.

 

Oh egh, now I'm just picturing a broken glass mayo jar, with a moldy mayonnaise covered logbook.

[+SeattleWayne]

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

 

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

 

What irks me.

 

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

It's been mentioned before. Just because a cacher can't find a cache, even after several attempts, doesn't mean the cache isn't there or isn't maintained. Just because a cache seeker contacts a CO and asks for a hint, but gets no response, doesn't mean the CO has abandoned the cache. <eom>

We're in no way talking about asking for hints, and not receiving them. Maybe read the actual conversation before chiming in with an accusatory, and irrelevant 'suggestion'. Thanks.

Excuse you?!

Maybe you should read the actual comments quoted in a post before chiming in with your condescending comments. Thanks!

 

SeattleWayne said he DNF'd a cache several times and he was irked him that he didn't receive hints.

Then you said "hence" it should be removed because it's abandoned/unmaintained.

 

I would also like to add that some people were finding it and some were not. So it was certainly there.

[+hzoi]

I would also like to add that some people were finding it and some were not. So it was certainly there.

This thread is up to post #3327. In some cases, it's OK to take "found it" logs with a grain of salt.