Puzzle/multi cache with removable element?

[+Team Batpony]

I've got another question for the geocaching community.

I'm not certain if this is covered in the guidelines or not, but... I was wondering how people would feel about a puzzle cache with an element at one stage which is required to be removed and taken to the next stage, and then returned afterwards. Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

[+dprovan]

I was wondering how people would feel about a puzzle cache with an element at one stage which is required to be removed and taken to the next stage, and then returned afterwards.

It's done. Not a particular problem. I think it tends to work better if everyone knows from the description that something like that's happening and what the approximate distances are, both so the people trying it know how much effort to expect, and people that show up to find the element missing know whether to bother to wait for it to return.

 

Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

I've never seen this, and I'm not sure how well it would work since there's that problem of the element being missing while someone's working on it, effectively disabling the cache. I don't have a conceptual problem with it, though. For example, if there were an effectively unlimited number of copies of the element for people to take and solve at their leisure, then that would be OK, although I'd be much happier if I knew in advance that I'd be unlikely to complete the cache in one visit.

 

Basically to me, these are fine as long as they don't tend to frustrate people by being out-of-service too much or by the amount of time and effort involved being a surprise that's only discovered at GZ. I'll put up with a lot if I can plan when I want to tackle it.

[+niraD]

I'm not certain if this is covered in the guidelines or not, but... I was wondering how people would feel about a puzzle cache with an element at one stage which is required to be removed and taken to the next stage, and then returned afterwards.

I've found a few caches like that. In addition to the issues that dprovan raised, consider the likelihood of finders returning the element correctly when they're done with it. It helps if the two stages are close together, or if it's an out-and-back route where finders will pass the storage location on the way back to the start.

 

Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

Are you going to provide multiple copies?

 

I've done a multi-cache where the first stage had a stack of instruction pages. There were plenty available, and there was no expectation that they would be returned after completing the cache. Part of that cache's maintenance was replenishing the instruction pages with newly printed/photocopied instruction pages.

[+Team Batpony]

Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

I've never seen this, and I'm not sure how well it would work since there's that problem of the element being missing while someone's working on it, effectively disabling the cache. I don't have a conceptual problem with it, though. For example, if there were an effectively unlimited number of copies of the element for people to take and solve at their leisure, then that would be OK, although I'd be much happier if I knew in advance that I'd be unlikely to complete the cache in one visit.

 

Basically to me, these are fine as long as they don't tend to frustrate people by being out-of-service too much or by the amount of time and effort involved being a surprise that's only discovered at GZ. I'll put up with a lot if I can plan when I want to tackle it.

 

Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

Are you going to provide multiple copies?

 

I've done a multi-cache where the first stage had a stack of instruction pages. There were plenty available, and there was no expectation that they would be returned after completing the cache. Part of that cache's maintenance was replenishing the instruction pages with newly printed/photocopied instruction pages.

 

In the case of the item they would possibly have to take home... There would probably be only one of them. It would be some sort of device that would probably cost a moderate amount to construct ($30 to $50), hence why providing more than one could easily become a problem due to price. I do understand the risks of putting such a device out into the field, having it damaged or go missing etc, and if such a thing were to happen, at least in the latter case it would not be replaced more than once.

 

I do, however, have a few ideas that would be slightly less challenging but equally fun, that would not require said device to be removed from its location.

[+Walts Hunting]

So While one cacher has it at home for a week or so what happens to others who seek it?

[+narcissa]

I've got another question for the geocaching community.

I'm not certain if this is covered in the guidelines or not, but... I was wondering how people would feel about a puzzle cache with an element at one stage which is required to be removed and taken to the next stage, and then returned afterwards. Also, one step further... What about an element which the cacher would most likely have to take home and crack?

 

We had one around here that involved keys. It was fun. The stages weren't terrible far apart, and on a trail system where it was logical to go back past the stage where the key was to be put back, so it wasn't an inconvenience.

 

I have also seen a couple where the first stage had copies of paper puzzles that you could try to do in the field or take home to do.

 

I think there's a lot of room for creativity and fun.

 

The problem with complex cache designs like this is that some people are incredibly dull and will inadvertently cause problems because they don't get it. They might keep important pieces, or leave them in the final instead of putting them back, or whatever.

 

And then some people are oddly malicious about caches that require effort.

 

So just be prepared for more maintenance than a typical cache.

[+dprovan]

In the case of the item they would possibly have to take home... There would probably be only one of them. It would be some sort of device that would probably cost a moderate amount to construct ($30 to $50), hence why providing more than one could easily become a problem due to price. I do understand the risks of putting such a device out into the field, having it damaged or go missing etc, and if such a thing were to happen, at least in the latter case it would not be replaced more than once.

I'm suspecting this wouldn't work, then. There are a number of caches in my area that have such a device at the posted coordinates, and it works out without the device disappearing too often. But the problem in your case is the aspect of it being taken away from the posted coordinates for an indeterminate period of time by design.

 

But if you want to try it, I'd suggest having the element be in an independent cache, and then make the element itself a travel bug. Then people could "check it out" of the cache, take it home, solve it, then check it back in when they return it to its cache after they're done with it. That would give people a way to find out whether it's available or not. Encourage people to plan ahead by announcing in the TB log they they plan to retrieve it and how long they expect to have it.

 

Then the actual puzzle cache would be a different cache, but only findable if you solved the TB.

 

To be honest, I'd expect this to fall apart pretty quick just because so many things can go wrong, but it would be a really interesting thing to try, particularly if you're mentally prepared for it to disappear the first day if it doesn't work.

 

I don't know why you're thinking a trip home would be required, but if it's computing resources or research, keep in mind that many people carry their computers and network access with them, so in that case you could present it as a field puzzle and require they solve it at the posted coordinates instead of encouraging them to take it home.

 

By the way, I'm just musing about what might work in practice. I have no idea whether any of these ideas this would trip over any current guidelines.

[+narcissa]

This cache is somewhat infamous around here. It was a pretty great cache in its day, but as you can see by the logs it eventually stopped working as keys disappeared.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC994A_keychase?guid=459b746c-f303-4df9-907b-1f7f8f7d7283

[+Team Batpony]

So While one cacher has it at home for a week or so what happens to others who seek it?

 

Having it at home for a week would not be allowed, and if somebody decided to ignore that rule, it would be assumed missing and replaced.

 

In the case of the item they would possibly have to take home... There would probably be only one of them. It would be some sort of device that would probably cost a moderate amount to construct ($30 to $50), hence why providing more than one could easily become a problem due to price. I do understand the risks of putting such a device out into the field, having it damaged or go missing etc, and if such a thing were to happen, at least in the latter case it would not be replaced more than once.

I'm suspecting this wouldn't work, then. There are a number of caches in my area that have such a device at the posted coordinates, and it works out without the device disappearing too often. But the problem in your case is the aspect of it being taken away from the posted coordinates for an indeterminate period of time by design.

 

But if you want to try it, I'd suggest having the element be in an independent cache, and then make the element itself a travel bug. Then people could "check it out" of the cache, take it home, solve it, then check it back in when they return it to its cache after they're done with it. That would give people a way to find out whether it's available or not. Encourage people to plan ahead by announcing in the TB log they they plan to retrieve it and how long they expect to have it.

 

Then the actual puzzle cache would be a different cache, but only findable if you solved the TB.

 

To be honest, I'd expect this to fall apart pretty quick just because so many things can go wrong, but it would be a really interesting thing to try, particularly if you're mentally prepared for it to disappear the first day if it doesn't work.

 

I don't know why you're thinking a trip home would be required, but if it's computing resources or research, keep in mind that many people carry their computers and network access with them, so in that case you could present it as a field puzzle and require they solve it at the posted coordinates instead of encouraging them to take it home.

 

By the way, I'm just musing about what might work in practice. I have no idea whether any of these ideas this would trip over any current guidelines.

 

Now that is not a bad idea, the TB idea. I think that could potentially work.

It isn't computing resources or research, but I am fairly certain that the puzzle could be solved with something that nobody would (or could) bring into the field, even if asked to on the cache page or something. Telling you exactly what it is would reveal the surprise.

[Luckless]

I have a cache with instructions at the first stage that people take with them to help them find the final cache. I ask that the instructions be returned- sometimes they do return them- sometimes they don't. To increase my chances of the instructions being returned after the final is found I hid the final cache near the place where they'd need to return the instructions. (but not too close so they happen on the final cache while looking for the other stage) I have about four copies of the instructions in the first stage of my cache so I have a little time before they disappear and I have to replace them.