A cache of two countries

[+Ibar]

Hey,

 

I was born in country A and moved to country B around 20 years ago (both in Europe). Around a year ago I started caching, love the game, the outdoors experience, the "be a child again" thing, the stats and so on. Now in country B we have caches everywhere, but when I went last winter back to country A, I realized how desolate the caching map is on that area, with just 3 poorly maintained caches in a city of 100.000+ inhabitants.

 

In order to try to activate a bit the caching in A I was thinking to create some kind of "two countries" cache, where, in order to have a valid log in the "B cache" you must find somebody to log the "A cache".

 

Do you know if such a thing would be acceptable? and if yes any particular consideration I should have while creating the caches? (Regarding the CO, the idea would be for me to maintain the B part and my sister the A part)

 

Looking forward to your ideas

 

Thanks in advance

[+Pan314159]

Hello!

 

A friend of mine here in the UK and a cacher in France set up a pair of caches that do something similar to what you're describing. It requires collaboration with a cacher in the other country in order to log the cache in your country, and the two caches are linked by a theme. Have a look:

 

GC4R4G1 Her Majesty's Palace & Fortress

http://coord.info/GC4R4G1

(in the United Kingdom)

 

GC4Q3Z0 Guillaume le Conquérant côté Normand

http://coord.info/GC4Q3Z0

(in France)

 

...So it is definitely something that's possible. It was also a very fun cache to do. I did it and logged the London (UK) side. I hope to be able to go over and log the French side at some point.

 

I hope this helps you.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Pan314159

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

A pair between Newport, RI (USA) and Kinsale, Ireland, honoring the sister city status of Newport and Kinsale.

Edited June 5, 2014 by BBWolf+3Pigs

[+Ethankwolfe]

Hey,

 

I was born in country A and moved to country B around 20 years ago (both in Europe). Around a year ago I started caching, love the game, the outdoors experience, the "be a child again" thing, the stats and so on. Now in country B we have caches everywhere, but when I went last winter back to country A, I realized how desolate the caching map is on that area, with just 3 poorly maintained caches in a city of 100.000+ inhabitants.

 

In order to try to activate a bit the caching in A I was thinking to create some kind of "two countries" cache, where, in order to have a valid log in the "B cache" you must find somebody to log the "A cache".

 

Do you know if such a thing would be acceptable? and if yes any particular consideration I should have while creating the caches? (Regarding the CO, the idea would be for me to maintain the B part and my sister the A part)

 

Looking forward to your ideas

 

Thanks in advance

 

So logs would have to reference the user making the other log, and the two would have to be relatively close to the same time?

 

A pair between Newport, RI (USA) and Kinsale, Ireland, honoring the sister city status of Newport and Kinsale.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking, this would be great for sister cities.

[+narcissa]

I think you might run into "additional logging requirements" issues with this.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I think you might run into "additional logging requirements" issues with this.

 

Maybe in Ibar's concept, but I don't see it as an issue for a "two country cooperative" cache.

 

(Edit: correct the sentence to read as I meant it to)

Edited June 5, 2014 by BBWolf+3Pigs

[+narcissa]

I think you might run into "additional logging requirements" issues with this.

 

Maybe in Ibar's concept, but I don't see it as an issue for a "two country cooperative" cache.

 

(Edit: correct the sentence to read as I meant it to)

 

Yeah, you could certainly have a link to the other cache on the cache page and set them up in some way to be related, but I don't think you can insist that people log it in a particular way.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I think you might run into "additional logging requirements" issues with this.

 

Maybe in Ibar's concept, but I don't see it as an issue for a "two country cooperative" cache.

 

(Edit: correct the sentence to read as I meant it to)

 

Yeah, you could certainly have a link to the other cache on the cache page and set them up in some way to be related, but I don't think you can insist that people log it in a particular way.

 

Which mine doesn't.

[+narcissa]

I think you might run into "additional logging requirements" issues with this.

 

Maybe in Ibar's concept, but I don't see it as an issue for a "two country cooperative" cache.

 

(Edit: correct the sentence to read as I meant it to)

 

Yeah, you could certainly have a link to the other cache on the cache page and set them up in some way to be related, but I don't think you can insist that people log it in a particular way.

 

Which mine doesn't.

 

I was referring to the OP, not your example.

[+Touchstone]

Related thread that has some examples and ideas:

 

Anyone interested...

[etarace]

Uhmmmm... I think we're overlooking the obvious: make it a multi. Stage 1 in Country A, Stage 2 in Country B (or vice-versa). You, the OP would have to set up both (you can't use an already existing cache in Country A for a stage). To get more traffic to the others in Country A you could write in your description something like "while you're picking up Stage 1, make sure you check out these other caches in Country A" if it is a reasonable distance.

[+Oxford Stone]

I was driving over the FR-BEL and BEL-NL borders last week and wondering if any frontier roadsigns anywhere are harbouring a cheeky filmpot?

 

http://goo.gl/maps/CP6N1 this sort of thing.

[+Roman!]

Have a look at this one, can't do it without someone at the other cache.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Take a look at the "All Nations" forum section. There are numerous examples of what are described as exchange caches. They're typically published as unknowns and would not be considered as having an ALR because in order to physically find one of the caches you need to get information (specified in the cache listing) from someone that is in the area of the cache it's paired with. That person would need information from you to find the cache in their location.

[etarace]

Have a look at this one, can't do it without someone at the other cache.

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Have a look at this one, can't do it without someone at the other cache.

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed.

 

I don't see that happening. The cache the UK side was archived. I'm curious how this was implemented. Each required an electronic travel bug that had to be activated at the same time. I wonder how the device transmits it's status such that both would know that they're simultaneously active.

 

I was thinking how one might replicate the idea and came up with this:

 

Suppose a web site was created which required geocachers from two locations to connect simultaneously. The site, if based on HTML 5 could use the location API to determine the lat/long location of each geocacher, and thus confirm that a geocacher in New York City (where one of the caches was located) and a cacher in Los Angeles (where the other cache was located) were both connected, and would then display the final coordinate or each (or both) caches. If it works for two locations, there's no reason why it couldn't work for more. It could be set up such that 6 puzzle caches, in six different cities around the world, could be solved simultaneously. As long as the site wasn't commercial in nature and didn't require logging in (all you'd need would be to go to a specific URL) I don't see any guideline issues.

 

 

[+Roman!]

Have a look at this one, can't do it without someone at the other cache.

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed.

 

I don't see that happening. The cache the UK side was archived. I'm curious how this was implemented. Each required an electronic travel bug that had to be activated at the same time. I wonder how the device transmits it's status such that both would know that they're simultaneously active.

 

I was thinking how one might replicate the idea and came up with this:

 

Suppose a web site was created which required geocachers from two locations to connect simultaneously. The site, if based on HTML 5 could use the location API to determine the lat/long location of each geocacher, and thus confirm that a geocacher in New York City (where one of the caches was located) and a cacher in Los Angeles (where the other cache was located) were both connected, and would then display the final coordinate or each (or both) caches. If it works for two locations, there's no reason why it couldn't work for more. It could be set up such that 6 puzzle caches, in six different cities around the world, could be solved simultaneously. As long as the site wasn't commercial in nature and didn't require logging in (all you'd need would be to go to a specific URL) I don't see any guideline issues.

 

They were duino devices and the coordinates were in a park outside the COs house and he had an antennae pointing into the park so you could access his wifi, I assume the one across the pond did the same thing.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Roman!

[etarace]

Have a look at this one, can't do it without someone at the other cache.

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed.

 

I don't see that happening. The cache the UK side was archived. I'm curious how this was implemented. Each required an electronic travel bug that had to be activated at the same time. I wonder how the device transmits it's status such that both would know that they're simultaneously active.

 

I was thinking how one might replicate the idea and came up with this:

 

Suppose a web site was created which required geocachers from two locations to connect simultaneously. The site, if based on HTML 5 could use the location API to determine the lat/long location of each geocacher, and thus confirm that a geocacher in New York City (where one of the caches was located) and a cacher in Los Angeles (where the other cache was located) were both connected, and would then display the final coordinate or each (or both) caches. If it works for two locations, there's no reason why it couldn't work for more. It could be set up such that 6 puzzle caches, in six different cities around the world, could be solved simultaneously. As long as the site wasn't commercial in nature and didn't require logging in (all you'd need would be to go to a specific URL) I don't see any guideline issues.

After commenting I immediately thought... yeah, but people would ruin it. One guy would get the coordinates on side A, and tell friends on side A (who would never be required to do the simultaneous thing) then side B wouldn't have people doing it; the initial lack of interest combined with the cheating on side A making it impossible.

Bleh. People. They ruin things a lot.

Back to Ibar's original post. I am currently procrastinating as hard as I possibly can. I took this opportunity to check all of his finds from last winter (and then I checked them all ... because I am procrastinating as hard as I possibly can). There isn't a single city in which he has found caches that has only three. All have many. And they get found, and favorite points. So I'm really confused about what country it might be unless of course he never found any of these three caches either.

Not that I'm attempting to e-stalk anyone, but it might be helpful to give advice on setting up geocaches if we knew the geography. You can drive between Malmö, Sweden and Emmen, Netherlands in about seven hours (for example). By no means a park-and-grab, but I have definitely driven that far for a nice hike (sometimes with a cache). Europe isn't as sprawling as the United States, and they also have a nicer system of trains. When an American thinks of getting a cache in "another country" it tends to mean a month off work. In Europe it's a day trip, if that.

[+Ibar]

@All, thanks for your feedback. I think I have enough inspiration for my "cache of two countries" idea, really appreciate.

@etarace, between "A" & "B" there are 1.600 km, nothing really for a drive, and I think I didn't mention that the issue was with countries, but with "that area, with just 3 poorly maintained caches in a city of 100.000+ inhabitants." and that statement is still valid (I'm trying to convince the person that placed one of those 3 caches to put a few more, but that's a different story)

 

Regards

Edited June 6, 2014 by Ibar

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Europe isn't as sprawling as the United States, and they also have a nicer system of trains. When an American thinks of getting a cache in "another country" it tends to mean a month off work. In Europe it's a day trip, if that.

 

I agree that it's definitely a lot easier to get from one country to another in Europe, but taking a month to find caches in another country is quite the exaggeration. I'm from the U.S. and have found caches in 20 countries (in Europe, Africa, and Asia), all on my job related travel, and have never been away from home for more than 10 days. Even when I found caches in Malaysia (about 9400 miles from home), Singapore, and Japan I was only away for 10 days. A flight from New York to Seattle is around 6 hours. It's only about 7.5 to 9 hours to many countries in Europe.

 

 

[+Ben0w]

There's a cache here in Europe near my home that requires a trip of around 20-30 days - by foot, crossing three countries (and the alps).

 

There is no other way possible than making the most significant parts by foot - it's a multi, some people split it up and took more trips.

 

For those who will try it, maybe after visiting the world's first GIGA event this year, it's http://www.coord.info/GC1FPN1 "Munich-Venice" (listing translated to english available here: http://www.kachels.de/Munich-Venice.htm ). Have fun!

Edited June 6, 2014 by Ben0w

[cezanne]

@All, thanks for your feedback. I think I have enough inspiration for my "cache of two countries" idea, really appreciate.

@etarace, between "A" & "B" there are 1.600 km, nothing really for a drive, and I think I didn't mention that the issue was with countries, but with "that area, with just 3 poorly maintained caches in a city of 100.000+ inhabitants." and that statement is still valid (I'm trying to convince the person that placed one of those 3 caches to put a few more, but that's a different story)

 

As long as you do not tell us the name your home country, one needs to speculate. Personally, I do not think that caching in areas with almost no caches will get more popular by placing challenging caches.

Of course, by adding an additional cache you can increase the number of caches, but the number of local cacher depends on a lot more.

There are countries in Europe where given the economic situation it is not too surprising that there are hardly any caches and hardly any local geocachers.

You cannot compare Greece, Albania, Bosnia etc with countries like Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands.

[etarace]

I agree that it's definitely a lot easier to get from one country to another in Europe, but taking a month to find caches in another country is quite the exaggeration. I'm from the U.S. and have found caches in 20 countries (in Europe, Africa, and Asia), all on my job related travel, and have never been away from home for more than 10 days. Even when I found caches in Malaysia (about 9400 miles from home), Singapore, and Japan I was only away for 10 days. A flight from New York to Seattle is around 6 hours. It's only about 7.5 to 9 hours to many countries in Europe.

I was trying to make a point to contrast the realities between the two continents. For the typical American to go to "another country" they won't usually have work sending them (you're lucky!). There is two weeks off from work, plus the expense of travel (including flight/hotel/food) and all of the planning to actually make the trip (getting the neighbor to feed the chickens, getting your sister to walk grandma, getting time off work or school for all family members). It's a pretty big ordeal.

In Europe you can easily cache in five different countries over the weekend on a whim.

 

Also, I hate flying with a passion. Now that I don't live in Alaska so that I don't have to fly for work, I will avoid it as much as I possibly can. A Trans-Atlantic boat ride takes seven days (each way). If I spend two weeks in Europe, that is a month-long trip. So, really not an exaggeration in my case.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I agree that it's definitely a lot easier to get from one country to another in Europe, but taking a month to find caches in another country is quite the exaggeration. I'm from the U.S. and have found caches in 20 countries (in Europe, Africa, and Asia), all on my job related travel, and have never been away from home for more than 10 days. Even when I found caches in Malaysia (about 9400 miles from home), Singapore, and Japan I was only away for 10 days. A flight from New York to Seattle is around 6 hours. It's only about 7.5 to 9 hours to many countries in Europe.

I was trying to make a point to contrast the realities between the two continents. For the typical American to go to "another country" they won't usually have work sending them (you're lucky!). There is two weeks off from work, plus the expense of travel (including flight/hotel/food) and all of the planning to actually make the trip (getting the neighbor to feed the chickens, getting your sister to walk grandma, getting time off work or school for all family members). It's a pretty big ordeal.

In Europe you can easily cache in five different countries over the weekend on a whim.

 

Also, I hate flying with a passion. Now that I don't live in Alaska so that I don't have to fly for work, I will avoid it as much as I possibly can. A Trans-Atlantic boat ride takes seven days (each way). If I spend two weeks in Europe, that is a month-long trip. So, really not an exaggeration in my case.

 

I realize that I'm not typical in that I get to travel internationally (and domestically) for work, but I don't think it's typical to avoid flying either. For someone that *will* get on a plane, the time difference between east and west coast travel isn't significantly much more that travel from the east coast to Europe. It probably wouldn't even add a day to the overall trip. Compare hotel costs in San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Seattle and, for example, Portugal and you might find that the costs of accommodations for a week in Portugal compensates for the higher airfare to Europe. Once you're there, as you say, traveling between countries is pretty easy on the train.

 

If you were to take a week off for a vacation, even if you only drove 100 miles away you're still going have to get the neighbor to feed the chickens, someone to walk grandma, etc. so that's a wash. You don't even to spend two weeks to see quite a lot. The first time I went to Europe I flew into Geneva, Switzerland, took a bus to Chamonix, France to go skiing and came back to Geneva the next day and had two days of meetings, then took the train to Milan, stayed overnight in Milan, then on to Rome for a couple days of meetings, then flew home from Rome. I think I was away for 8 days. Unfortunately, that was before I started geocaching, but I've since found caches in all three countries.

 

 

[etarace]

I agree that it's definitely a lot easier to get from one country to another in Europe, but taking a month to find caches in another country is quite the exaggeration. I'm from the U.S. and have found caches in 20 countries (in Europe, Africa, and Asia), all on my job related travel, and have never been away from home for more than 10 days. Even when I found caches in Malaysia (about 9400 miles from home), Singapore, and Japan I was only away for 10 days. A flight from New York to Seattle is around 6 hours. It's only about 7.5 to 9 hours to many countries in Europe.

I was trying to make a point to contrast the realities between the two continents. For the typical American to go to "another country" they won't usually have work sending them (you're lucky!). There is two weeks off from work, plus the expense of travel (including flight/hotel/food) and all of the planning to actually make the trip (getting the neighbor to feed the chickens, getting your sister to walk grandma, getting time off work or school for all family members). It's a pretty big ordeal.

In Europe you can easily cache in five different countries over the weekend on a whim.

 

Also, I hate flying with a passion. Now that I don't live in Alaska so that I don't have to fly for work, I will avoid it as much as I possibly can. A Trans-Atlantic boat ride takes seven days (each way). If I spend two weeks in Europe, that is a month-long trip. So, really not an exaggeration in my case.

 

I realize that I'm not typical in that I get to travel internationally (and domestically) for work, but I don't think it's typical to avoid flying either. For someone that *will* get on a plane, the time difference between east and west coast travel isn't significantly much more that travel from the east coast to Europe. It probably wouldn't even add a day to the overall trip. Compare hotel costs in San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Seattle and, for example, Portugal and you might find that the costs of accommodations for a week in Portugal compensates for the higher airfare to Europe. Once you're there, as you say, traveling between countries is pretty easy on the train.

 

If you were to take a week off for a vacation, even if you only drove 100 miles away you're still going have to get the neighbor to feed the chickens, someone to walk grandma, etc. so that's a wash. You don't even to spend two weeks to see quite a lot. The first time I went to Europe I flew into Geneva, Switzerland, took a bus to Chamonix, France to go skiing and came back to Geneva the next day and had two days of meetings, then took the train to Milan, stayed overnight in Milan, then on to Rome for a couple days of meetings, then flew home from Rome. I think I was away for 8 days. Unfortunately, that was before I started geocaching, but I've since found caches in all three countries.

Neither of us represent a typical American. And that's cool.

When I first heard of geocaching there were exactly zero available within even a boat or snowmobile ride from where I lived. While I was there one was placed, but I had already forgotten about it until we moved to New York and my dog found one in a State Park. It is somewhat unfortunate that I don't have caches from Alaska or all of the places my job had me go... but at least I got to go to all of those places.

 

The fact that trips to either Portland or Portugal from NY are comparable (in travel time and expense) actually supports what I am saying. If you're in NY and go as far as Portland, you are still in the same Country. If you start your trip in Portugal and go across the same distance to the west, that is most of Europe (around 50-ish countries).

I am not discounting the fact that (as Ben0w pointed out) there can be lengthy and difficult treks through Europe. I'm saying it is also possible that a cache in "another country" might be as easy to get to as the time I got one in Bainbridge.

I'm pointing out the fact that from a "typical American view" those giving advice might be over-complicating matters by imagining that "another country" is a very long way away.

That (combined with my procrastination) is what caused me to contemplate what countries are in question. My original suggestion was, to me the obvious, multi-cache. Why add in websites and electronic components and Wi-Fi when there could be a simple solution that doesn't involve dead batteries or poor connection or somebody neglecting to reset part correctly? The distance and feasibility of travel between the two plays a big role in considering what can and should be done.

 

That said, if Country A has three poorly maintained caches that nobody goes to why would the same guy who doesn't maintain those three want to place another one for nobody to go to?

 

P.S. Yes, Canada, I do realize I have "another country" very close to where I live right now.

[+Ibar]

@All, thanks for your feedback. I think I have enough inspiration for my "cache of two countries" idea, really appreciate.

@etarace, between "A" & "B" there are 1.600 km, nothing really for a drive, and I think I didn't mention that the issue was with countries, but with "that area, with just 3 poorly maintained caches in a city of 100.000+ inhabitants." and that statement is still valid (I'm trying to convince the person that placed one of those 3 caches to put a few more, but that's a different story)

 

As long as you do not tell us the name your home country, one needs to speculate. Personally, I do not think that caching in areas with almost no caches will get more popular by placing challenging caches.

Of course, by adding an additional cache you can increase the number of caches, but the number of local cacher depends on a lot more.

There are countries in Europe where given the economic situation it is not too surprising that there are hardly any caches and hardly any local geocachers.

You cannot compare Greece, Albania, Bosnia etc with countries like Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands.

 

Well, the reason I wasn't naming the countries was because I needed support on the "idea" rather than any more or less biased opinion about the countries themselves. Anyway "A" is Spain and "B" is Belgium. I share the first part of your statement. I don't expect the Spanish caching community in Castellon (that's the 100.000 inhabitant city I mentioned) to explode but who knows, if Belgians start to know that there's something down there and the Spaniards that there are a lot of caches in Belgium, I think that may help if just a bit to increase the caching "awareness" in the area.

I'm too new in Geocaching to judge about the reasons of higher or lower density in one area or another but it seems to me that it has nothing to do with economical situation (economically speaking Catalunya is not much better than Valencia and in Barcelona there are caches everywhere). I think it's more a question of spreading the news about the hobby, somebody knows somebody that caches and then starts playing ...

Personally I learnt about geocaching almost by accident. It's not the kind of thing that are in the papers or on TV, even in the net, if you don't search it ... you may never know that such a (in my eyes) great "game" exists

 

cu

Edited June 7, 2014 by Ibar

[+DeepButi]

... I don't expect the Spanish caching community in Castellon (that's the 100.000 inhabitant city I mentioned) ...

There are some 180 caches within 10Km distance of Castellon center. More than 400 witihn 25Km. Considering that the East part is the Mediterranean sea, so no caches there ... ... it's not that bad.

 

998 caches (according to www.geoardilla.es) on Castellon province. 59 on the city boundaries.

Edited June 8, 2014 by DeepButi

[+Ethankwolfe]

...I don't expect the Spanish caching community in Castellon (that's the 100.000 inhabitant city I mentioned) to explode but who knows...

 

Nobody expects the Spanish caching community!

 

[+Ibar]

... I don't expect the Spanish caching community in Castellon (that's the 100.000 inhabitant city I mentioned) ...

There are some 180 caches within 10Km distance of Castellon center. More than 400 witihn 25Km. Considering that the East part is the Mediterranean sea, so no caches there ... ... it's not that bad.

 

998 caches (according to www.geoardilla.es) on Castellon province. 59 on the city boundaries.

Well, it's clear that it depends what you consider "good" or "bad". A group called "La Orden del Carajillo" placed 210 caches along a GR. Other than that if you look at the city itself, it's pretty empty. I haven't looked at the density of caches around the World, but fact is that where I happen to live (West-Vlaanderen, Belgium)we are slowly running out of place to put new caches (I know I'm exaggerating), so as Einstein said "everything is relative" but seriously, if I would be living down there right now, I would "clean the area" quite fast.

That's why I'm trying to find out ways to motivate the people in the area to get more involved in the game. Just FYI, I looked to the website you mentioned (pretty good, thanks!) and after less than one year of caching I would already be the 55th geocacher in the Comunidad Valenciana in terms of Finds, I mean ....

Edited June 9, 2014 by Ibar

[cezanne]

Well, the reason I wasn't naming the countries was because I needed support on the "idea" rather than any more or less biased opinion about the countries themselves.

 

Actually, my opinion on your idea depends on the involved countries.

In case of Spain where the overall cache density is not that bad and which is a popular tourist location too your plan has better chances than I would have attributed to your idea if your country of origin

were for example Albania (36 caches overall) or Bosnia (96 caches overall) - in both cases caches included that have been hidden by foreigners.

 

I have experienced the time when there existed hardly any caches in my country. A fellow cache hider wrote an e-mail to every single finder of his caches throughout the whole first year, thanked them for the visit and asked the finder whether he/she might want to hide a cache too. Still geocaching is much more popular in cities than it is in remote coins of the country.

When I started geocaching, a geocache for which I would have had to contact someone in another country would not have appealed to me, but that's probably a matter of taste.

Your project might however attract experienced cachers from other countries/region of Spains to the area. From the point of view of local cachers, I'd rather go with an easy cache at a beautiful location.

 

Cezanne