Travel Bugs - possible solution?

[+The Sméagol]

We are new to geochaching and very unhappy about TBs and how they are listed. In 80% they are not in the cache where they should be. Our own TB disappeared from the first cache where we have placed it. As we travel a lot we would like to take TBs on long journeys with us, but how can we find caches with real TBs in it?

 

Here may be a technical solution:

1. While logging cache, there should be mandatory dropdown status field for each TB listed in cache inventory. Wenn logging cache I must select "discovered" or "retrieved" or... for each TB. If I select nothing then cache logging is not possible.

2. New status - "Not found/Missing" - should be added for TB logs.

3. When TB is logged 3 times as "Not found/Missing" then it is obvious that it is not in cache. It should be automatically marked as missing and removed from cache inventory.

 

This way TB would not be listed for years where they are not. This way newbies would know that they should log TBs as well, when they log cache (they would not be able to log the cache without choosing status of TB). This way we could have more fun with TBs.

Edited August 11, 2013 by The Sméagol

[+Walts Hunting]

This issue comes up almost daily. In fact the. Topic after yours http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=314327 is the same thing.

 

You might want to read through the plathera of previous ones but basically. Not gonna happen.

 

Think about your mandatory idea first if the cacher doesn't care about bugs he shouldn't be forced to and might mark them missing just for spite. What happens when someone goes to SeaShelli in Yuma with as many as forty bugs. Having to mark ststus of that many is not going to happen. The best solution is my signature.

[+The Sméagol]

Thanks for your answer. I did not know that most cachers do not care about Travel Bugs. This would explain why so many of them disappear and not logged properly. Sad. We are planning our route over 1000 km away right now and would like to take some TBs with us. Seems that we are not lucky with it. 9 of 10 caches in our Home Zone where TBs are listed were actually empty. At the moment only one TB comes with us

Edited August 12, 2013 by The Sméagol

[+kunarion]

I did not know that most cachers do not care about Travel Bugs. This would explain why so many of them disappear and not logged properly.

I think it's cumulative. The first guy takes the TB, drops it in a cache, goes home and can't figure out how to log it. Now it's listed in the wrong cache. The next guy takes the TB home, and can't figure out what to do. So the TB ends up in a junk drawer.

 

When someone finds a cache, they seem to know how to log it. “Me Find Box, Bye”. Done. But if you take a TB and drop it into another cache, there are steps to take, all over the place, and they must be done in a certain sequence, and if it starts out scrambled, there's a lot of work to fix it. Since there's no way to trace it back to the taker, and no apparent penalty if you could, nobody cares. And if one cacher did all those logs correctly, next guy would see an accurate inventory in a cache, run to take the TB, and scramble the logs again.

[+Quossum]

I feel your pain. When we go on vacation we like to do some "Bug Hunts" beforehand and take a bunch of travelers with us to drop off while on the road.

 

Some tips:

• Run a Pocket Query and select the filter for "contains inventory" (not sure if that's the exact wording)
  
• Once you have the list, take a look at the most recent logs. If it's one of "those" caches, you're almost sure to see a log like, "No TB present." On the other hand you might see a log like, "Dropped off TB."
  
• Eliminate the caches where the bugs have obviously disappeared.
  

 

Using this method, we have been very successful at harvesting a handful of travelers to accompany us on vacation. We love moving bugs and have often planned expeditions around their goals.

 

That said, I agree that there needs to be some sort of method to help clean out these "Ghost Travelers" junking up cache inventories, sometimes for years and years with no response from the CO or the bug owner, either of whom can mark it missing. Well thought-out and reasonable solutions have been suggested, but thus far none have been implemented.

 

Good luck!

 

--Q

[+Walts Hunting]

The Reptilian Overlord gives a very good explanation of what is probably the biggest reason for the problem. There are a myriad of lesser reasons but all the solutions proposed (such as yours) were somewhat draconian in nature and would impose requirements on either cache owners or finders that would either nt get followed or raise a protest.

 

You need to know that unlike the well regulated militia proposed in the second amendment this is an ill regulated hobby with a somewhat anarchistic nature.

[+cerberus1]

3. When TB is logged 3 times as "Not found/Missing" then it is obvious that it is not in cache. It should be automatically marked as missing and removed from cache inventory.

There were many logs on one of our hides once that a geocoin was missing.

Sometimes I'll email the TO and let them know that when I do maintenance, I'll check.

Turned out the coin that was missed by many was without a sleeve and was stuck to the ammo can lid (with who knows what) and it wasn't missing afterall, just overlooked.

[+The Sméagol]

Some tips:

• Run a Pocket Query and select the filter for "contains inventory" (not sure if that's the exact wording)
  
• Once you have the list, take a look at the most recent logs. If it's one of "those" caches, you're almost sure to see a log like, "No TB present." On the other hand you might see a log like, "Dropped off TB."
  
• Eliminate the caches where the bugs have obviously disappeared.
  

Good guide. Thank you! We will try it this way. GeoCaching is funny enough without TBs, but "TBs' Missions" make it a bit more exciting We would not like to miss this nice idea of letting TBs travel with us, finding good places for them and making photos. I hope Groundspeak will once find the way to make cache inventories more realistic.

[+Quossum]

3. When TB is logged 3 times as "Not found/Missing" then it is obvious that it is not in cache. It should be automatically marked as missing and removed from cache inventory.

There were many logs on one of our hides once that a geocoin was missing.

Sometimes I'll email the TO and let them know that when I do maintenance, I'll check.

Turned out the coin that was missed by many was without a sleeve and was stuck to the ammo can lid (with who knows what) and it wasn't missing afterall, just overlooked.

 

While that is possible, I would imagine that a situation like that (traveler IS in the cache, but overlooked several times) is somewhat rare. How about one like this: http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=dfa0cce0-1621-4290-82e4-478f40a9494d This bug hasn't been in the listed cache since 2005 (and this is a cache with over 300 visits). A few of the other bugs in it are in a similar state of being missing for years and years and years.

 

I like The Blorenges well-considered possible solution, discussed here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=284690 Don't know that it will happen, but it is one of the most rational plans I've heard of.

 

--Q

[+kunarion]

I like The Blorenges well-considered possible solution, discussed here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=284690 Don't know that it will happen, but it is one of the most rational plans I've heard of.

Why are there so many Topics here about that Topic? Moderators, PLEASE combine these!

[+Quossum]

Sorry! I was just trying to point out that this oft-brought-up topic has been discussed to death and that "official" procedures are underway to come up with a solution. I totally agree; I love this forum (because I love travelers), but every other thread is "Why aren't bugs in the cache where the inventory says they are?" You (and other regulars) do your darnedest to explain, and personally I was thrilled when I saw the Blorenges suggestion so got a little enthusiastic.

 

Maybe one of the stickied topics in this forum should be something like, "HELP! Cache inventory lists bugs not there!" Then the kvetching / solutionizing could take place in that thread, and new threads directed to it.

 

Just a thought; sorry if I did something wrong.

 

--Q

[+Walts Hunting]

MrsB's solution still requires each cacher to look for travelers nd then write down the ones that are there so those that aren't can be properly marked. While this would certainly be nice if optional it shouldn't be mandatory. And if it isn't mandatory it will be ignored by many. Could help some but there would still be missing travelers.

[+Quossum]

I thought it was elegant because it *didn't* require each cacher to do anything...but allowed those of us cachers who already DO, to have an effect.

 

Case in point: As it is right now, many cachers put in their log for the cache: "No travelers present" or "No TB's today." That alone is helpful and wouldn't have to change with The Blorenges plan. As it is right now, those of us who care about travelers (a much smaller number) will, when logging the cache, go to the pages of the bugs listed in its inventory and type "Write Note" logs that read, "Sorry, your bug was not in Cache XYZ." That didn't require writing down TB numbers or anything like that. (I guess if there were dozens of bugs in there to sort out, maybe, but that's pretty darn rare.) It seems to me that the ONLY difference is that, under the Blorenges plan, after X many such reports on the TB itself, that bug would be "ghosted" (though I like the idea of red print better than faded for bugs that have been reported missing) and / or eventually (amount of time could be a topic of discussion--three months might be too short, but five? Six?) automatically be listed as "missing" and thus disappear from the cache's inventory.

 

No "extra" action required of anyone who didn't care to do it, and it doesn't involve any alteration in logging the cache itself. But something would eventually happen to inaccurate cache inventory thanks to the actions of those who take the extra effort. I see it as not much different from posting a NM log: some cachers will, some cachers won't, but it does give information to future seekers.

 

I agree that nothing "mandatory" about bug maintenance should be added. You're right; many cachers aren't interested in that part of the game. Now pass me the bourbon!

 

--Q

Edited August 13, 2013 by Quossum

[+Walts Hunting]

I have the solution to all the trackable problems. First of all we are looking at the wrong people to solve this. The Cache Owner doesn't have any responsibility for what people put in his cache or take out and trying to blame him for that problem isn't right.

 

Secondly the poor little logger who comes along and signs the log isn't responsible for what other people have put in and taken out of the cache and trying to impose some draconian action on him for his innocent part isn't right.

 

The only person responsible for this whole mess is those Trackable Owners who spew their stuff across the world expecting the rest of us to take care of it. They need to step up so I have two solutions that only affect the originators of the problem.

 

1. Stop selling trackables and over time they will eventually disappear from existence and we can all go back to complaining about the next unimportant issues about this hobby.

 

If that doesn't work how about this

 

2. Set a date, give warning to all people who have sent a trackable out or have one in their inventory that they will be held accountable. On that date when they log in they will have to go to a page where they will be required to check the logs for all trackables they own/possess including the cache logs for the cache it is supposed to be in for the last two years and if they feel the current info is correct they check the box that says "The info is correct" if not they check the box "The info is not correct" and then it will be automatically be marked as missing. This will occur every thirty days. If they do not complete the task they will not be allowed to log onto the site to do anything else.

 

Problem solved.

[+kunarion]

Although all these multiple identical Topics require multiple identical replies, I'm too lazy to do that, so the only place you can read my reply is here. Sorry.

 

What about just marking a discovered TB alive? The site could highlight the TBs somehow in the lists. Cachers could see which caches have TBs that are not dead (along with the mass of dead TBs), based on which ones other cachers saw. I'm not sure that most people can resist taking TBs rather than “discovering” them, but that's the risk of any plan.

 

Bear in mind, if you run out to take a TB due to it being listed, others have the same idea and can run faster. Somebody saw an accurate inventory. That's why the cache is now empty.

Edited August 14, 2013 by kunarion

[+Quossum]

I have the solution to all the trackable problems...

 

I think you may be on to something! In fact, maybe these bug owners should just skip the whole cache thing and accost random strangers on crowded urban sidewalks, assessing their character in an instant's wide-eyed stare, tucking a travel bug into their purses or briefcases with an intense, "Read it! You'll figure it out!" then melting away into the mass of humanity before the authorities arrive. Or, for those who like nature, drop a travel bug on a hiking trail and hope someone with good intentions picks it up. Surely the rate of losing them will be no worse than it is right now!

[+LuLilac]

I feel your pain. When we go on vacation we like to do some "Bug Hunts" beforehand and take a bunch of travelers with us to drop off while on the road.

 

Some tips:

• Run a Pocket Query and select the filter for "contains inventory" (not sure if that's the exact wording)
  
• Once you have the list, take a look at the most recent logs. If it's one of "those" caches, you're almost sure to see a log like, "No TB present." On the other hand you might see a log like, "Dropped off TB."
  
• Eliminate the caches where the bugs have obviously disappeared.
  

 

Using this method, we have been very successful at harvesting a handful of travelers to accompany us on vacation. We love moving bugs and have often planned expeditions around their goals.

 

That said, I agree that there needs to be some sort of method to help clean out these "Ghost Travelers" junking up cache inventories, sometimes for years and years with no response from the CO or the bug owner, either of whom can mark it missing. Well thought-out and reasonable solutions have been suggested, but thus far none have been implemented.

 

Good luck!

 

--Q

 

I would like it if the pocket query added an option for filtering out inactive TBs. For example, you could choose to only see TBs which had some sort of action logged within a given amount of time, say the last month. This way, the TB listings on the site would remain unmolested and a person could be directed to living breathing TBs more easily.

 

Lulilac