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wister6813

Did I find Americus City Mark?

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In a previous post, I described the disks placed by the KATY Railroad. I found three of the unusual, and perhaps even rare, disks. Two were in Morris County, and one in Lyon County. As I was working my way back towards Kansas City I stopped in Americus to look for triangulation station AMERICUS and pipe cap AMERICUS CITY MARK. I wanted to find the pipe cap since it would also be a different from the usual C&GS disks. After finding the KATY disks, I figured this would be the icing on the cake.

 

I found the pipe cap, and it was of a type I have not previously found. :D The pipe caps I’ve found in the past have been cast with raised letters. This cap has incised letters. The mark logo is a first for me as well. However, I’m not sure it is JF1354 because there are slight differences that leaves me hesitant to claim it as found.

 

I've posted a note describing some of the differences. Anyone care to express an opinion if the pipe cap I found is indeed AMERICUS CITY MARK?

 

985b8ebb-7cad-463b-a0ee-cb0926af7c78.jpg

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wister6813,

 

I believe that you found the correct cap. Clerical errors in pipe diameters are quite common and it does look like the location received fill when the ball court was constructed. Did you attempt to get an off-set measurement from AMERICUS?

 

Is there a chance that when the COE placed the pipe and cap that the area was in the Little Rock district, and sometime later it became part of the St Louis district before it was blue-booked by CGS in 1956?

 

kayakbird

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Kayakbird

 

Thanks for the reply. Taking a measurement from Americus didn't occur to me until I returned home. Threading the tape through the fence, twice, might affect my accuracy. However, the measurement would confirm if the distance between the two disks is consistent with the box score.

 

This area is in the Tulsa District. The Tulsa District was formed in 1939. The Little Rock District was formed a couple of years earlier in 1937. Americus is close to the boundary of the Kansas City District, which was formed in 1909. The St Louis District predated all of these by 100 yrs since it was formed in 1837. Guess maps showing boundary changes over the years would be needed to sort through the historic changes.

 

I can believe a clerical error for the pipe diameter. Nearby AMERICUS was flush in 1956, and is now a couple of inches below grade. So fill may have been placed on the site.

 

I was leaning towards a find, and your opinion is the confirmation I needed. Thanks for looking at this.

 

Bob

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

This area is in the Tulsa District. The Tulsa District was formed in 1939. The Little Rock District was formed a couple of years earlier in 1937. Americus is close to the boundary of the Kansas City District, which was formed in 1909. The St Louis District predated all of these by 100 yrs since it was formed in 1837. Guess maps showing boundary changes over the years would be needed to sort through the historic changes.

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

Bob

 

Interesting information on all the district changes. It does somewhat limit the time span for when it was set and I'm wondering if the survey crews worked across boundaries and just happened to have that cap in their supply bucket. See recent reference to IBC cap in UTAH in the Benchmark pictures thread.

 

Has anyone logging in the mid-west run across other out of district COE caps? kayakbird

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Has anyone logging in the mid-west run across other out of district COE caps? kayakbird

 

[/quote

 

wister6813,

 

I'm beginning to think that you have one of the few PID'd USE "district" cap/disk in captivity. No one has logged the only other one I could filter out in Kansas GSAK:

1949 TULSA DISTRICT

 

Of those listed in GNOMONCLATURE http://gnomons.org/?page_id=3

 

only AC6024_STAMPING: 3 is legit,

 

DULUTH DISTRICT IN MICHIGAN

 

489b4086-136c-407c-9126-f4748734b2b5.jpg

 

but RL1550 CHISELED TRIANGLE is not the disk in the photo, and QE2642 CENTER OF USFS LOH is the Lookout House - not the nearby stray piece of brass.

 

I did notice in my snooping around that you have several nice MORC leaded copper bolts. Great finds! kayakbird

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Interesting about the USACE-Tulsa District disk in Sumner County. I used to get down that way on a regular basis. I'll have to remember this if I'm in that part of Kansas.

 

I only recall finding a couple of pipe caps set by the USACE - HY1975 and KE0257. Neither include the name of the District.

 

I frequently pass by the location of KE0257 so I should get a better photo. The fine is $500 for disturbing the mark instead of the usual $250.

 

Finding the MORC leaded copper bolts is a nice change of pace, as are the MORC pipe caps. I've only had success with a couple of the MORC pipe caps, a BM (KD0181) and a tri station (KD0193). Both found on the same day, and both in the same general area. Most are in areas that are not readily accessible.

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wister6813 & ALL,

 

Hope it is OK if this thread drifts off in the MORC direction a bit - just spent four days chasing them on this end of the Mighty MO.

 

Date in Concrete?

 

9368472a-468b-4b4f-9a5c-abfe2d5c6107.jpg

 

Is there any evidence of an original 1880 as well as the 8/25/30?

 

And would you be close to this one last recovered GOOD in 2010?

 

KD1092'MARK IS MISSOURI RIVER COMMISSION MARK WHICH IS A 2 INCH IRON

KD1092'PIPE SURROUNDED BY CONCRETE AND PROJECTS ABOUT 2 INCHES.

KD1092'INSCRIBED IN THE CONCRETE IS GLASGOW 1880 9/5/30.

KD1092'

 

About a quarter of the way through the Missouri MORC Tri's that I finally got pinned on GE - had to flounder through my first GSAK state upload in 18 months - and a few are sounding like the cast iron, raised triangle, caps on a 4.5 in pipe that we see out west.

 

Found yesterday

 

dcd52ef4-810d-4b65-adfb-116e9439d7d9.jpg

 

Looks like very few of the Missouri MORC's ended up with their first "Placed" date. I have not been able to figure out what methodology or rational was used to change dates on what looks to be the original cap, standpipe and underground stone setting.

 

kayakbird

Edited by kayakbird

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wister6813 & ALL,

 

Is there any evidence of an original 1880 as well as the 8/25/30?

 

And would you be close to this one last recovered GOOD in 2010?

 

KD1092'MARK IS MISSOURI RIVER COMMISSION MARK WHICH IS A 2 INCH IRON

KD1092'PIPE SURROUNDED BY CONCRETE AND PROJECTS ABOUT 2 INCHES.

KD1092'INSCRIBED IN THE CONCRETE IS GLASGOW 1880 9/5/30.

KD1092'

 

kayakbird

 

Sorry for the delayed response. I was in Joplin, MO for a couple days for my job.

 

I do not recall looking for the original 1880 station for CAMBRIDGE. The 1956 entry on the datasheet mentions moving the station towards the azimuth mark. Curious the date inscribed in the concrete is 8/25/30, but the reset station is 1956.

 

Does the smaller cap for CAMBRIDGE date to the 1880 monumentation, or is from the later replacement? I know you seek out the MORC caps, but I do not recall the details from your photos to say one way or another.

 

KD0199, FRANKFURT, is a MORC cap near CAMBRIDGE. I searched for it the same day I found CAMBRIDGE. In 1948 the area was a pasture. In 2008 it was an unused pasture, so the grass was tall and thick. I think there is a good chance the station still exists. I'll have to consider a swing over that way.

 

KD1092, GLASGOW, is about 90 miles west of Kansas City.

 

Bob

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-------

Does the smaller cap for CAMBRIDGE date to the 1880 monumentation, or is from the later replacement? I know you seek out the MORC caps, but I do not recall the details from your photos to say one way or another.

 

Bob

 

Bob,

 

Every MORC cap that I have found, seen in other GeoLogs or in some of the Jerry Penry publications have been the heavy 5-1/2 in. diameter X 3 in. high cast-iron cap with the raised triangle (stations) or rounded button (B.M.).

 

Best one yet

SEE STONE PHOTO IN LOG

4b06a7f9-1e20-4e43-885c-9131e0ec0938.jpg

 

The Montana ones were all set in 1885, 1889 or 1990. I believe that the first MORC marks on your end of the river were set in 1880 as temporary. I would like to know when the first 'permanent' underground etched stone, standpipe and cap with securing bolt (not to be confused with the 'copper bolt' sometimes place in a center hole in the underground stone) was actually planted.

 

Apparently very little original information was available when descriptions were written at a later time and this makes it impossible to do a systematic GSAK filter search for any attribute. In the 184 MORC PID's for pipes in Montana only six give the correct 4-1/2 in. outside pipe diameter and just seven give any hint of an underground stone; and there are more than thirty ways to describe the cap affixed to the standpipe.

 

Given all that - here are two more that sure sound like your CAMBRIDGE 2

 

LF0457'SOUTH BANK AT EDGE OF PASTURE. THE MARK IS A BRONZE CAP SET ON

LF0457'A 2 INCH PIPE WHICH IS EMBEDDED IN CONCRETE. THE PIPE PROJECTS

LF0457'3 INCHES AND THE CAP IS STAMPED 223.

 

LF0429'BRONZE CAP SET ON A 2 INCH PIPE EMBEDDED IN CONCRETE. THE MARK

LF0429'PROJECTS ABOUT 8 INCHES AND IS CAST US NO. THERE IS NO STAMPING

LF0429'ON THE MARK.

 

Wish that I was just a bit closer! Mike

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