Buying a smartphone for gps

[+Gonji]

I am looking at getting my first smart phone. It needs to have a very good camera to take clear close up pictures of electronics components (such as IC's, caps, etc) for work and a built in gps with good reception under tree cover and cloudy Washington sky (without the need to carry additional devices). For comparison, my current gps is a Garmin etrex vintage 2002. It has worked well for me, but it would be great if it had any reception in bad weather. This smartphone also has to be capable of running non-proprietary apps (so I guess that means a Droid). And it would be nice if it had a very good microphone (conference/meeting room quality pickup). Does anyone have any suggestions that meet the criteria above?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Gonji

[+Atlas Cached]

I am looking at getting my first smart phone. It needs to have a very good camera to take clear close up pictures of electronics components (such as IC's, caps, etc) for work and a built in gps with good reception under tree cover and cloudy Washington sky (without the need to carry additional devices). For comparison, my current gps is a Garmin etrex vintage 2002. It has worked well for me, but it would be great if it had any reception in bad weather. This smartphone also has to be capable of running non-proprietary apps (so I guess that means a Droid). And it would be nice if it had a very good microphone (conference/meeting room quality pickup). Does anyone have any suggestions that meet the criteria above?

 

The title says you are buying a smartphone for GPS, but your description/request speaks nothing of GPS.

 

Having said that, buying a smartphone for GPS would be like buying a GPS to make phone calls

[+Atlas Cached]

Sorry, double post

Edited July 13, 2012 by Atlas Cached

[+Gonji]

The title says you are buying a smartphone for GPS, but your description/request speaks nothing of GPS.

 

Having said that, buying a smartphone for GPS would be like buying a GPS to make phone calls

 

Here Atlas, I will shorten it up for you so you can see it.

 

"Smartphone... with a built in gps with good reception under tree cover and cloudy Washington sky (without the need to carry additional devices)"

Any suggestions?

[+Gonji]

So, to redefine my question here. I'm looking for what smartphone on the market has the best GPS. But once I can come to a conclusion on that, I still have to balance the GPS with any other functionality tradeoffs.

 

Well I have looked around the net for hours and have not found the comparison I'm looking for.

 

It sounds like I need a droid smartphone with A-GPS (Assisted GPS). This is a smartphone with a regular GPS that is network assisted to improve the reception of the regular GPS at times when its usual signal source (satellite) is disrupted. This improves accuracy and speed. The downside of this is that it eats away at your data plan costing you more money. So, this takes me back to my original thinking of finding the smartphone with the best normal GPS hardware built into it. Also, maybe different phones allow you to choose whether to or when to use the A-GPS or just the normal GPS?

 

I'll be looking more into this, any input would greatly be appreciated.

 

Posting some interesting links here I found on my search.

 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS> Wiki definition of A-GPS.

<http://www.pcworld.com/article/185350/droid_vs_iphone_smartphone_gps_shootout.html> Comparison of Droid vs iphone, claiming Droid better toward the end of article.

<

Youtube comparison of Iphones: 3G, 3GS, 2G (with some help from an external device) in a road map test.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Android_devices> Wiki a broad comparison of Android devices

<http://www.rmtracking.com/blog/2012/06/29/portable-gps-navigation-devices-might-become-obsolete/> Article seeming to indicate smartphone gps's will one day outsell dedicated devices

<

Youtube comparison of Garmin vs Droid seeming to say the Droid was comparable if not more accurate.

<http://reviews.cnet.com/4321-6452_7-6564140.html> premium features for free on some smartphones

<http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/default.asp?_SetCurrentVersion=EN> message board with a reference to lightsquared 4G/LTE network crossing/interferring with GPS frequencies

<http://www.gpspassion.com/Hardware/chipsets.htm> GPS chip manufacturers, looks dated, no reference to smartphones that I see

<http://reviews.cnet.com/best-smartphones/> CNET July 10th 2012 best smartphones, although not much in comparison of GPS capabilites.

 

I realize much of the info in the above links must be dated, but it's helpful nonetheless.

What i'm really looking for though is a more technical comparison of manufacture's spec's against some standard.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Gonji

[team tisri]

Chances are any smartphone will support bluetooth, so if you want a better GPS receiver you can get a bluetooth GPS doodad that will do that.

 

My rather old and tired HTC smartphone has GPS but it let me down once too often so I bought a thing that's smaller than a matchbox to fill the gap. It works pretty well for me.

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about which units outsell which other units. I'd suspect the majority of people who buy smartphones don't use all the features, and using a GPS to help navigate when driving the car (where a power source is readily available) is very different to using a dedicated GPS for longer hikes where a smartphone just wouldn't do the job. If you have a specific need buy the product that's right for you rather than worrying about what everyone else is buying to meet their needs.

 

If you have specific requirements for the built-in camera your best bet is probably going to be to visit your local phone shop and test the camera for yourself, or wade through endless reviews of people who may or may not have tested it with your requirements in mind.

[+Gonji]

Chances are any smartphone will support bluetooth, so if you want a better GPS receiver you can get a bluetooth GPS doodad that will do that.

 

My rather old and tired HTC smartphone has GPS but it let me down once too often so I bought a thing that's smaller than a matchbox to fill the gap. It works pretty well for me.

 

 

Good to know there is bluetooth hardware that small. I had seen other bluetooth devices mentioned being paired with smartphones throughout the forums, but all were either full size GPSR's or large GPS emergency locators. And I don't want to have to be carrying pocket fulls of electronics into the woods. What was this device you mentioned called?

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about which units outsell which other units. I'd suspect the majority of people who buy smartphones don't use all the features, and using a GPS to help navigate when driving the car (where a power source is readily available) is very different to using a dedicated GPS for longer hikes where a smartphone just wouldn't do the job. If you have a specific need buy the product that's right for you rather than worrying about what everyone else is buying to meet their needs.

 

That is exactly what I am doing, looking for the smartphone thats right for me. By the sound of it you looked at some of the links I posted? I'm not really looking for GPS to navigate roads, just to geocache, but there is no telling how I may use it down the road (no pun intended). I thought it interesting though the comparison among iphone generations in regards to GPS accuracy/reception. And I think whether on the road or in the woods, its a comparison that makes a difference. That link was pretty old though as I believe most are now 4G? Combine this with the link talking about smartphone GPS development outpacing the development of dedicated GPSR's, and it just reinforces my wanting to buy a smartphone over having to carry multiple devices. All the consideration put into accuracy & reception of GPS vs say a Garmin makes no difference to me though, since the real benefit is not having to purchase and carry multiple devices to do the jobs one device can do.

 

If you have specific requirements for the built-in camera your best bet is probably going to be to visit your local phone shop and test the camera for yourself...

 

I paid a visit to the verizon store before starting this forum. Unfortunatly, I got paired with a salesperson who only knew how to follow their scripted sales process rather than selling me the product to suit my needs. In response to my question on the GPS capability/comparison of the units they had, the reply I got was they are all the same. I dont believe this to be true.

As far as the camera goes though, your right, I could go back to the store and just compare for myself as I wouldn't have to leave the store with multiple phones to compare them as I would have to do with the GPS.

 

... or wade through endless reviews of people who may or may not have tested it with your requirements in mind.

 

This is why I'm posting here. I was hoping the reviews, ones specifically addressing GPS in regards to geocaching, would come to me rather than having to go find them. And I have been searching, but there is a surprising lack of info specific to GPS in smartphones. Well, i'm sure its there, but its as you say you have to wade through endless reviews to find it.

 

Thank you for the input team tisri.

[+Gonji]

Found this interesting link, unrelated topic not specific to my questions on accuracy & reception, but maybe a concern for some people.

 

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/technology/personaltech/12basics.html?_r=1> Apprently, smartphones embedd pictures taken on them with geotags that could enable people to stalk you if you post those pictures online. A feature which can be turned off by some difficult navigation through the smartphones menus, but disabling it can also completely disable GPS althogher on some smartphones.

[+splashy]

Total BS, if you disconnect the Gps while making a picture it just works well, only the gps function is off.

You should not geotag places that brings you in connection with the pictures.

I love my android Galaxy 1 and 3 and even more, all the (free) or low cost very nice working beautiful apps with offline free maps.

Start with the Gps on the phone and if you're not happy with the reception, you alway can buy a bluetooth gps for it.

Edited July 14, 2012 by splashy

[team tisri]

Chances are any smartphone will support bluetooth, so if you want a better GPS receiver you can get a bluetooth GPS doodad that will do that.

 

My rather old and tired HTC smartphone has GPS but it let me down once too often so I bought a thing that's smaller than a matchbox to fill the gap. It works pretty well for me.

 

 

Good to know there is bluetooth hardware that small. I had seen other bluetooth devices mentioned being paired with smartphones throughout the forums, but all were either full size GPSR's or large GPS emergency locators. And I don't want to have to be carrying pocket fulls of electronics into the woods. What was this device you mentioned called?

 

I can't remember, I've had it for four years now. Even if I could remember the chances are you can't buy it any more. Do a Google search for Bluetooth GPS and see what's currently available, chances are they are better, smaller and cheaper than the thing I bought.

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about which units outsell which other units. I'd suspect the majority of people who buy smartphones don't use all the features, and using a GPS to help navigate when driving the car (where a power source is readily available) is very different to using a dedicated GPS for longer hikes where a smartphone just wouldn't do the job. If you have a specific need buy the product that's right for you rather than worrying about what everyone else is buying to meet their needs.

 

That is exactly what I am doing, looking for the smartphone thats right for me. By the sound of it you looked at some of the links I posted? I'm not really looking for GPS to navigate roads, just to geocache, but there is no telling how I may use it down the road (no pun intended). I thought it interesting though the comparison among iphone generations in regards to GPS accuracy/reception. And I think whether on the road or in the woods, its a comparison that makes a difference. That link was pretty old though as I believe most are now 4G? Combine this with the link talking about smartphone GPS development outpacing the development of dedicated GPSR's, and it just reinforces my wanting to buy a smartphone over having to carry multiple devices. All the consideration put into accuracy & reception of GPS vs say a Garmin makes no difference to me though, since the real benefit is not having to purchase and carry multiple devices to do the jobs one device can do.

 

I didn't read the links, just the text you posted beside them.

 

Where the accuracy is concerned, civilian GPS will have an inaccuracy of a few feet, and truth be told for civilian purposes that's more than good enough. It's unlikely that you're ever going to need to know exactly where you are to an accuracy of less than a few feet.

 

If you're navigating to a cache you may find that an all-in-one device is the best way forward for you, on the basis it will let you navigate by car to the parking, then walk from there to the cache, all the while avoiding the time wasted if you take a direct route only to find a river in the way and no bridges for a mile in either direction.

 

Even with smartphone GPS in the condition it's in now the main differences as I see it are that a smartphone will give you that all-in-one functionality that lets you use the same device to download cache details, navigate, phone a friend for help and then log your find/DNF when you're done while a dedicated GPS won't let you do all those things but will be much more robust, waterproof, and last a lot longer in terms of battery life. A huge number of GPS units will take AA batteries so it's easy as anything to extend the life even further.

 

For comparison my old 60CSx would give me a good 16-18 hours on a set of AA batteries, and another set would fit in my pocket or saddle bag easily enough. My old HTC smartphone does well to last 4-5 hours if I leave the screen on.

 

If you have specific requirements for the built-in camera your best bet is probably going to be to visit your local phone shop and test the camera for yourself...

 

I paid a visit to the verizon store before starting this forum. Unfortunatly, I got paired with a salesperson who only knew how to follow their scripted sales process rather than selling me the product to suit my needs. In response to my question on the GPS capability/comparison of the units they had, the reply I got was they are all the same. I dont believe this to be true.

As far as the camera goes though, your right, I could go back to the store and just compare for myself as I wouldn't have to leave the store with multiple phones to compare them as I would have to do with the GPS.

 

If the only thing you get is a well rehearsed script leave and go somewhere where they answer your questions. Personally I'd be inclined to make a complaint to the store and say that the reason you didn't buy anything was because the salesman couldn't answer your questions and you weren't interested in the script.

[team tisri]

Found this interesting link, unrelated topic not specific to my questions on accuracy & reception, but maybe a concern for some people.

 

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/technology/personaltech/12basics.html?_r=1> Apprently, smartphones embedd pictures taken on them with geotags that could enable people to stalk you if you post those pictures online. A feature which can be turned off by some difficult navigation through the smartphones menus, but disabling it can also completely disable GPS althogher on some smartphones.

 

Worth considering, it's not difficult to either disable the GPS first or strip the information out of the file. In this day and age where being a Farcebook zombie seems to be considered an aspiration most people are so busy clamouring for a bit of online attention they don't think how anything could be used for anything other than collecting the names who "Like" it.

[+Gonji]

I contacted T-Mobile and Verizonwireless about the GPS in the phones they sell. T-Mobile responded by responding but not answering my question at all. Verizonwireless gave me the answer I was looking for, but not the one I wanted to hear. "Our phones are phones, they are not GPS devices. They are not embedded with a GPSR chip, or antenna. Our phones are GPS enabled, meaning the information for the location based services, and things that would use a GPS system use the data on the phone, and satellites to bring you the most accurate information. Reception for the phone itself is based on the location you are currently in, and how close you are to our cell towers." At first this seemed contrary to what wiki <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS> defined as A-GPS (Assisted GPS), but I guess its not contrary when the GPSR is at the other end of the network lol. They went on to suggest 4G over 3G for its greater speed at retrieving data based information. They were not aware of my purpose for wanting GPS however, and I'm guessing there is allot more coverage for 3G than 4G. Well, kind of a let down, but I'm not completely dissuaded from using a smartphone for GPS just yet. Its probably a fine option for local caching. And there is still the bluetooth solution to look into for those trips into forest land. Plus, the access to cache pages, driving apps for the trip to the parking area, etc. Anyone using a small bluetooth GPSR out there with their smartphone? Also, im interested to hear more about battery life. I hear it can be extended greatly by putting your smartphone in airplane mode. Although I'm not sure how much that helps if airplane mode shuts off your connection to the cell towers?

[+Atlas Cached]

If an external bluetooth enabled GPSr is decided on for use with your selected smartphone, you may want to consider the Garmin GLO, just announced this week! Looks pretty neat, I may be getting one myself.

 

 

Navigate with Garmin-caliber GPS data on the mobile device of your choice. GLO brings you the best of both worlds by combining GPS/GLONASS receivers with Bluetooth® technology so you can enjoy precise position information on your iPad, iPhone or Android device.

 

Enjoy the Accuracy of GPS + GLONASS

 

GLO can receive position information from both the GPS and GLONASS satellite constellations, allowing it to connect to up to 24 more satellites than devices that rely on GPS alone. This allows GLO to lock on to satellites approximately 20% faster and remain connected even at high speed. What’s more, GLO updates its position information at 10x per second – that’s up to 10x more often than the GPS receivers in many mobile devices.

 

Set it Up and Go

 

Using Bluetooth technology, GLO wirelessly pairs to your mobile device. Just set GLO within range of your mobile device and in moments you’ll be receiving GLO’s position data. The device features up to 12 hours of battery life to keep your position on even the longest trips, and charging GLO between uses is a cinch with the included USB cable or and optional 12/24 Volt cigarette lighter adapter. Garmin’s optional friction mount keeps the receiver safe on your dash and in full view of satellites.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Atlas Cached

[+Gonji]

Thanks for the info Atlas. Larger than the matchbox I was pictureing though. At .70" x 1.65" x 3.04", its only about an inch smaller than my Etrex. So, I don't know if this is the option for me.

 

I talked with a T-Mobile phone owner today about the HTC Sensation. I saw first hand, the network and wifi turned off and the GPS still work.

Looking at the specs on the website <http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-sensation/#specs> it shows "internal GPS antenna" under the location section.

 

So, it seems the response I got from the competition is by no means an absolute answer to the question of whether or not cell phones have internal GPSR's.

[+crunchewy]

I have an iPhone 4 and the official Geocaching app (which is very good, by the way, at least on iOS), at best reports 16' accuracy. In the woods it's a lot worse. Could be 32, 64 or sometimes even higher. So it's not great, but it can get you in the vicinity or better depending on the location of the cache (and it's useful for on-the-fly Geocaching, looking at and posting logs, etc, etc, in concert with a standalone). Just getting a Bluetooth GPS receiver isn't necessarily the answer. I have one and the accuracy is worse than the built in GPS on the iPhone 4, not better.

 

I'm very curious about the Garmin GPS module. I'll be anxious to hear from people if it rivals a standalone GPS like my GPSMAP 62sc. If it does I would like to get one. However ideally there'd be a good way to attach the phone to it. Otherwise you need two hands, though there's always rubber bands.

[+PeoriaBill]

Hello,

 

A phone may not be the best choice for you. Appears you live in rainy Washington State. With all the drizzle, wet, damp and rainy days you have, a phone may be suitable. Why not invest in a GPS and save the phone for urban caches?

[+Atlas Cached]

To make this very simple:

 

Your phone is not a GPS.

 

Your GPS is not a phone.

 

You might find electronic devices that do offer both functions in the same package, but I would still recommend getting a dedicated GPS, from Garmin.

[+Gonji]

Just wondering, do you work for Garmin Atlas?

[+Atlas Cached]

Just wondering, do you work for Garmin Atlas?

 

No.

 

But I love their products, except when they don't work as advertised.

 

I have tried most GPS available, and I still have all my Garmin units, have sold all the others.

[+crunchewy]

I think I may have overstated how bad the iPhone is in the woods. I actually can't remember the details as its been a while since I last cached exclusively with it, other then that it is at best 16' and it's worse in the woods.

[+sneirbo]

Samsung galaxy s 3 is the cat's meow. Clear screen, precise navigation, no jittery moveents as you move towards a geocache. I cannot imagine a better phone than the galaxy s 3 for geo caching.

[+dakboy]

"Our phones are phones, they are not GPS devices. They are not embedded with a GPSR chip, or antenna. Our phones are GPS enabled, meaning the information for the location based services, and things that would use a GPS system use the data on the phone, and satellites to bring you the most accurate information.

This is so poorly written that it's misleading, bordering on false.

 

Nearly all smartphones (if not all) currently on the market are equipped with a GPS receiver chip and antenna. They also use A-GPS. They will use A-GPS (location based upon triangulation from cell tower data) to get a rough location, and then the GPS (if enabled) will be used to get a more accurate location.

 

They went on to suggest 4G over 3G for its greater speed at retrieving data based information.

Of course. 4G is the new hotness, and the speed lets you burn through your data allocation faster.

 

They were not aware of my purpose for wanting GPS however, and I'm guessing there is allot more coverage for 3G than 4G.

3G vs. 4G coverage has absolutely nothing to do with GPS reception/coverage. Also, all 4G phones also support 3G.

 

Although I'm not sure how much that helps if airplane mode shuts off your connection to the cell towers?

The radios used for your data connection consume a lot of juice.