Looking for new GPS - Specific needs

June 20, 2012

First, I want to apologize. I know there are "What GPS should I buy" type threads here. I normally would not create a new thread if I know there's already a thread for it. However, I have specific desires/needs I am looking for and I don't even know if something like this exists:

• Waterproof

• WiFI (or cell tower) connectivity (data only)

••• So that I may download/update on the fly (in the field) - I don't want to use my phone for rugged and water caching

• Rugged / Shock Resistant

• Visible display

My girlfriend and I geocache to get off our computers and outside and enjoy nature. We prefer to cache in rural/wooded areas and we want to take that up a notch this year. We want to hit some of the canoe series that are in our area. But for what I think are obvious reasons, I don't want to take my $500 non-waterproof phone into a canoe.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. So thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Craeft

1.6k · June 20, 2012

I'm not sure there's a GPS available that'll do everything you want.... that won't cost you an arm, leg, a sister, your god uncle, and a couple kittens.....

But seriously.... A basic handheld GPS with a lanyard around your neck.

Get a 'dry box' for your cell phone. $5 at Walmart. I also sometimes use this dry box when I'm riding our bicycles and can't keep the phone in my pocket. I have a bike bag that hangs off the seat...and at one point, the vibration from riding caused my phone to rub againest everything else in the bag. So now, I put it in the dry box inside the bike bag.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Lieblweb

2.6k · June 20, 2012

Waterproof, rugged/shock resistant, and visible display are not a problem. Almost all handheld units meet these requirements. But I don't think you're going to find one with wifi or Internet connectivity. That's just not how they work.

What you probably want to look for is a unit with paperless caching capability. That way you can download hundreds of caches to the unit with full descriptions, hints, recent logs etc. The data won't be live but it'll be as fresh as your most recent download.

Or, you could get the simplest, cheapest handheld for basic navigation and ruggedness in the field, paired with the smartphone in a basic waterproof box for live access.

8.6k · June 20, 2012

• WiFI (or cell tower) connectivity (data only)

Maybe this type of beast exists and I don't know about it.... but WiFi is not part of a GPSr programming/hardware.

Most GPSr units will load 1,000 caches, many will load 2,000 or 5,000. You simply need to learn to use Pocket Queries.

Not many users are capable of doing 1,000 caches/day or even weekly for that matter.

June 20, 2012

Thanks for the responses guys.

Lieb: I figure if there is something like that, it will be expensive as hell. But I am curious to know if it exists. With today's technology, it wouldn't surprise me if it did, but I don't even know where to begin searching. I was considering a dry-box, but I would still have to take the phone out to use it and that means holding it while tracing a cache. I could do the ZipLoc bag thing (which I probably will temporarily) so that I can see through the bag, but my concern is it "unzipping". It will have to do for this weekend's canoe trip.

Chief: I understand that's not how GPS systems work, but it isn't infeasible for such things to be integrated into a GPS unit, especially with things like 3G and 4G out there. I guess what I am looking for is a GPS unit with primarily cell tower integration. I wouldn't really care about WiFi because that would be 100% useless on about 99% of caches.

I probably will go the download route if I can't find something. The only reason I am trying to take it one step further is because my girlfriend and I never know where we will be caching next. It's not uncommon for us to be on a road trip and decide, "Hey... this looks like a good caching area!"

Gitchee: No kidding. I seriously need to learn to use pocket queries. They still confuse the hell out of me to the point I gave up on em. But again, the issue resides in the fact that we never really know where we will be caching from time to time, so pre-download doesn't really work most of the time.

My primary goal would be cell tower access using 3G/4G (much like many eReaders now use). The frustrating part is I know the technology exists... I just don't know if any of the GPS manufacturers have done anything with it. hehe...

Again, thanks for the responses guys. I really appreciate it. Hopefully, I can find something along the lines for what I am looking. Until then, I guess it's using the smartphone for live access. I don't want to just go get a small, quick-buy GPS unit. If I get one, I want to make sure it's exactly what I am looking for (even if I have to negate the possibility of 3G/4G). So it will have to wait a while until I can 'play' with a couple of em.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys use and what do you like/dislike about your units?

June 20, 2012

Why WiFi? Any mapping GPSr will hold a map of your area of interest and cache locations. And the whole idea of GPS is to work ANYWHERE there's a clear view of the sky, not just near WiFi or a cell tower. I can see where you'd need cellular access for traffic updates, but you certainly don't need that to cache.

June 21, 2012

My 78sc holds 5000 caches. By playing around with pocket queries and using the instructions under the Tips and Tricks section at the link below, I was able to setup 5 pocket queries (each with a different date range) of 1000 caches each that give me all 5000 (or close to it) active caches within 30 miles of my house. And then, using the same theory, I was able to setup five pocket queries of 1000 each that give me all 5000 (or close to it) active caches within 42 miles of the location of the hotel where we will be vacationing later this summer. Really not hard to do.

http://www.markwell.us/pq.htm

I doubt any manufacturer of GPSr is going to put the expense of WiFi and cell service into a GPSr. Quite a lot of R&D to get that going, and you're entering a market dominated by cell phone / smartphone industry - and then how do you setup service plans? They would have to partner (read: spend big bucks) with a cell phone service provider, and the end user would have to enroll in a data plan, and probably an expensive one. Not a big enough market to justify it. So, yes, technically it can be done, but I'm not holding my breath.

Dave

1.6k · June 21, 2012

You could spend way too much time trying to find that exact unit you want..... And, I don't think it even exists (or else it would be know and mentioned already).

Or, you could get a good basic handheld unit, load it up with 5000 geocaches (learn pocket queries) and have fun!! Don't worry about logging the caches either. Log them in the GPS Until you have access to a computer or laptop. Upload 'Field Notes' to your profile (again, more learning).

On canoeing trips, your phone should be more protected than just a plastic bag. The phones are more expensive than a handheld GPS and they're also a lifeline in case of emergencies. In other words.... Protect the phone and use the GPS for caching.

It might be cumbersome to use multiple units while caching.... But hey, I think 99% of the dedicated experienced cachers carry more electronics than you'd ever thought you'd own! LOL

My husband and I - two iPhones, two handheld GPS's, and one car GPS. And while traveling, gotta have the laptop.

June 21, 2012

You're going to want 2 devices. A netbook or iPad/iPhone for the web connectivity, and a paperless GPSr for walking around a dropping in the creek.

On the iPad there's a slick app called GeoBucket which allows you to download PQ's or just show you the closest caches to your position...I really like the large screen too.

I like the Oregon 450, but the new eTrex series has the same features in a smaller form factor (not so good for my mature eyes though)

June 21, 2012

Seldom: Hence my preference for 3G/4G. If WiFi, I can use my phone in a previously mentioned dry box and use it as a hotspot. But 3G/4G preferred.

Periwinkle: The interesting/sad part is that it's not that much cost to add 3G service. The expense lies in the engineering for it (which pretty much boils down to proper antenna/tuner. As a HAM op, I can say that's not that big of a deal if you have the equipment to do it). However, you bring up an interesting point. Things like the Nook, the Kindle, and the Kobo now have 3G/4G service at no subscription charge. So how do they go about that? I would think that if they can, then so could a GPS unit manufacturer. I was always under the impression that if you use a cell company's tower, you had to pay for that service... but apparently, that's not always the case.

Lieb: Yeah. I just figured it was worth it to ask. I figured if anyone knew if it existed, it would be someone on these forums. I might have to get a current unit and 'modify' it and then submit the modifications and see what the interest level is from the company. Sadly, I wouldn't be able to modify it and make it useful without service, so it would be up to the company to decide whether it was useful or not.

As for the phone thing... that's exactly why I was looking for something else in its place while on the canoe.

hehe... With me and my girlfriend, it's currently 2 Evos, a laptop, a KR2 (we do that weird paranormal stuff too), and a tablet. So I get it.

Crown: I don't do mac products, but I get the scenario. But the only use I can see for live access using the phone AND a GPS unit is to use the phone as a hotspot in a box and a GPS unit with WiFi. Otherwise, I might as well ignore the GPS unit and just use the phone. I have the geocaching app for my Evo and it works GREAT. But I am trying to get away from that so that I can isolate to the GPS unit and keep the phone safe while in a rugged/water situation.

For Geocaching, I actually don't want a smaller form factor... so what about the Oregon do you like? I'll take a peek at the model's site.

June 21, 2012

I like the Oregon a lot, but you can even go bit bigger with the Montana series. The big advantage of the dedicated units is that they don't depend on cell towers and they have much better battery life than any cellphone. The Oregon can hold 5000 caches and the Montana holds 12,000, so realistically, you can use your phone/laptop combo to load fresh data onto your GPSr before your trip then leave them at home or in the car. Both models are rugged and waterproof for puddles & streams.

They come in a few flavors. Both models come with or without digital cameras and with or without pre-installed topo maps. I usually recommend against both options because the camera isn't anything special, and the topos are 1:100K which are not detailed enough for hiking.

Another point, the Garmins only come with crude base maps, so you'll need to download free maps from GPS File Depot or Open Street Maps or purchase maps from Garmin...I would recommend the DVD version of the maps so you can use them on all of your computers as well as your GPSr. The City Navigator maps are great street maps, and cover the whole US, or you can get the regional 24K Topo maps which also include the same routable streets.

1.6k · June 21, 2012

If you're like us..... buying anything of that expense is researched until you find what you need/want. There are sooo many different GPS units out there.

My husband and I have been using an Oregon 450 also - had it about a year now. We just bought another GPS (so we don't have to share one) and that's a GPSmap 62s. Both units work similarly. The Oregon is the touch screen and the 62s is not. We stayed with Garmin units simply because of all the chords/accessories that we have and the 'knowledge' of the firmware.

Other than that... Sometimes I think this hobby is more about being a techy-geek than it is about being an adventurer simply because of all the computer work involved. My husband is the savy one. I'm still learning...and GSAK blows my mind!!! LOL

June 21, 2012

Triple Crown: Did you steal my avatar? LOL... I feel viral all of a sudden... the good kind. hehe -- That's actually the KR2 that we're building.

After looking at some stuff, it seems as though a LOT of people like the Oregon. I really wish there were a place where I could do some hands on with some of these devices before buying them. I don't need anything with a lot of capacity (i.e. 12K vs. the 5K).

How annoying is the touch screen when in the woods? Personally, I prefer touch screen, but not if it keeps getting hit by things and thereby changing on me.

I know this thread has kinda changed intent from the original post, but the answer was given so, if it's alright, I would still like to pick your brains a bit about these units.

EDIT: Crown: Nevermind. Apparently, it loaded my avatar on your posts for some reason, but upon posting, it refreshed back to yours. Weird.

Edited June 21, 2012 by craeft

1.9k · June 21, 2012

After looking at some stuff, it seems as though a LOT of people like the Oregon. I really wish there were a place where I could do some hands on with some of these devices before buying them. I don't need anything with a lot of capacity (i.e. 12K vs. the 5K).

Add me as another Oregon 450 fan, had mine ~2 years. No Montana lust here. Go to REI they'll have OR, MT and eTrex to hold and try.

How annoying is the touch screen when in the woods? Personally, I prefer touch screen, but not if it keeps getting hit by things and thereby changing on me.

Works as intended, depending on how you carry it, zero or few unintended presses. In a case yes, clipped to the shoulder strap of my pack, never.

June 21, 2012

How annoying is the touch screen when in the woods? Personally, I prefer touch screen, but not if it keeps getting hit by things and thereby changing on me.

I have an OR300 (assume the 450's similar). The screen can be locked by pressing the power button followed by one screen touch dialog. The problem I have with my OR's touchscreen is alphanumeric data entry. You should definitely try this in a store.

Edited June 21, 2012 by seldom_sn

June 21, 2012

Forgive my ignorance. What is REI?

June 21, 2012

Nevermind. Found REI. Nearest one is about 1½ hours away. However, found some other local places that have it. Might have to take a look after this weekend. About to head out for a camping/canoeing trip in a few minutes.

June 21, 2012

The touchscreens on these units is pretty chunky...especially compared to a smartphone, so inadvertent screen presses are a real rarity...you need to be quite deliberate. I would also highly recommend a Zagg Invisible Shield or something similar to protect your screen...you're going to love it the first time (of many!) you drop it face down onto gravel, or swipe your screen with your dusty fingers.

2.6k · June 22, 2012

The touchscreens on these units is pretty chunky...especially compared to a smartphone, so inadvertent screen presses are a real rarity...you need to be quite deliberate. I would also highly recommend a Zagg Invisible Shield or something similar to protect your screen...you're going to love it the first time (of many!) you drop it face down onto gravel, or swipe your screen with your dusty fingers.

+1 on all the above (Oregon 550 user here)

1.6k · June 22, 2012

How annoying is the touch screen when in the woods? Personally, I prefer touch screen, but not if it keeps getting hit by things and thereby changing on me.

The touch screen is really nice.... However, I have a tendency to drive my husband up a wall (cliff) because I always manage to accidentally bump it and it'll go to a different screen and I never know how to get it back to where it was. Oops..sorry honey :anicute:

Soooooo....hence... we bought a 2nd GPS that doesn't have the touch screen (Garmin GPSmap62s). Similar unit & capabilities as the Oregon....It's a tossup which we like better. We both like the touch screen on the Oregon because its just faster to manipulate the firmware. The 62s utilizes buttons to manipulate the firmware (takes longer). The actual screen on the 62s is a whole lot nicer & crisper than the Oregon. They both have the similar accuracy even though the 62s has an external antennae.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Lieblweb

2.7k · June 24, 2012

How annoying is the touch screen when in the woods? Personally, I prefer touch screen, but not if it keeps getting hit by things and thereby changing on me.

The touch screen is really nice.... However, I have a tendency to drive my husband up a wall (cliff) because I always manage to accidentally bump it and it'll go to a different screen and I never know how to get it back to where it was. Oops..sorry honey

Soooooo....hence... we bought a 2nd GPS that doesn't have the touch screen (Garmin GPSmap62s). Similar unit & capabilities as the Oregon....It's a tossup which we like better. We both like the touch screen on the Oregon because its just faster to manipulate the firmware. The 62s utilizes buttons to manipulate the firmware (takes longer). The actual screen on the 62s is a whole lot nicer & crisper than the Oregon. They both have the similar accuracy even though the 62s has an external antennae.

craeft I notice that you are in colder part of the US. You may want to stay away from touch screens that don't work when you are wearing gloves. This isn't something you really think about until your on the trail in the middle of winter and have to remove a glove to use your GPS.

1.6k · June 25, 2012

craeft I notice that you are in colder part of the US. You may want to stay away from touch screens that don't work when you are wearing gloves. This isn't something you really think about until your on the trail in the middle of winter and have to remove a glove to use your GPS.

For us..not a big deal. We rarely geocache in the cold weather (in 20's). If we ever do - we have mechanics gloves with the fingers cut out.

But, that's a good point for anyone comparing.

Looking for new GPS - Specific needs

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