[FEATURE] ANT+/Chirp Device support

[+texasgrillchef]

Hi,

 

first time I was trying to find a developer... thread was closed because I was trying to communicate to other iOS developers. No problem. I understand.

 

So now... I am communicating to Groundspeak/geocaching.com the desire for the iPhone & the future iPad app to support ANT+ modules to allow us to find Chirp Devices. The following is my original message. Although now edited.

 

A while back, when we had our "Voting" suggestions Feedback forum. Someone had suggested adding a feature to the iPhone that would alow us to find geocaches that use the Garmin "Chirp" device. That was quickly declined. I knew it wouldx be when I first read it. Simply because the iPhone does not have the hardward that will allow it to find "Chirp" devices.

 

HOWEVER...

 

The Garmin "Chirp" devices uses the the "ANT+" wireless communication standard. This wireless communication standard is what is currently being used with "Heart Monitors", "Foot pods", Bicycle Pods, etc.. that connect with sports type GPS watches & other sports type consumer electronics.

 

Many of these devices such as the "Heart Monitors", "Foot pots", Bicycle pods etc.. Now work with the iPhone using a 30pin ANT+ module. This device plugs into the 30pin port of the iPhone/iPad and allows it to communicate with ANY "ANT+" device. I know. I have one and use an app to monitor my heart rate, Blood Pressure etc... ANT+ is a standard being used by many different hardware companies such as Garmin, Timex, Nike, Motorolla, etc...

 

Is anyone interested in having the geocaching.com app for our iPhone/iPad with this kind of functionality to find "Wirless Beacon" caches?

 

TGC

Edited December 21, 2011 by texasgrillchef

[+mpilchfamily]

What are the licensing agreements for that add-on? GS may have to pay some sort of royalty in order to develop or use software that access that device. Not to mention that Chirp belongs to Garmin so similar agreements would need to be worked out with them. Not only does the unit have to pick up the Chirp's signal it also has to be able to program the device. So i'm sure Garmin has an API for it but doubt its open for use. Otherwise we would see other GPSr manufactures including chirp compatibility in there units.

 

Its a nice idea but i wouldn't hold your breath for this one.

[+texasgrillchef]

What are the licensing agreements for that add-on? GS may have to pay some sort of royalty in order to develop or use software that access that device. Not to mention that Chirp belongs to Garmin so similar agreements would need to be worked out with them. Not only does the unit have to pick up the Chirp's signal it also has to be able to program the device. So i'm sure Garmin has an API for it but doubt its open for use. Otherwise we would see other GPSr manufactures including chirp compatibility in there units.

 

Its a nice idea but i wouldn't hold your breath for this one.

 

ANT+ is an open source device. That is. As long as your making & releasing software that makes use of the device then there are NO licensing fees.

 

If you were to make ANT+ hardware there WOULD be licensing fees.

 

As an example. (Assuming I had the skills) I could write an iOS 5.0 compatible app that could make use of reading & using Chirp devices. Heart Monitors, Foot Pods, Bicycle Pods, Pulse Ox Pods, etc... I can write all the APPS I want for Andoriod, or iOS, WITHOUT having to pay ANY licensing fees.

 

Someone out there COULD if they had the skills and desire. Write an app for iOS devices, as well as Android, or even Windows Phone that would make use of ANT+ device for finding "Chirps".

 

Currently there are at least 50+ apps that are available for iOS devices that make use of the ANT+ devices. All except the Chirp device.

 

There are many different companies that make use of ANT+ devices. A ANT+ device from one company will work with another companies ANT+ device.

 

Other GPS units from other companies that support ANT+ tech to read heart monitors etc... can be hacked to read the chirp. The Chirp owner would still have to use a garmin device to program his chirp unit. But a cacher would be able to use any ANT+ device properly programmed to find chirps.

 

Here is another example. My wife & I have have ANT+ Heart monitors. One is made by Garmin, the other by Motorolla, Even have an older unit (that wasn't very sweat proof & died) by another company. All were ANT+ devices. All worked with the Timex Sports GPS watch, The Garmin Sports GPS Watch, as well as a few other GPS devices from several different companies that suppored the ANT+ capability. Think of it like Blu-tooth. If you make blu-tooth hardware you have to pay a license fee. If you write software that makes use of blu-tooth devices you don't have to pay a license fee. In most cases you don't even have to write seperate sub-routines because of who made the device. (This of course depends on the device). Same thing applies to ANT+

 

Sadly, You are probably correct. It will be a very long time before geocaching.com supports this capability in it's apps. Groundspeak only has limited resources, finances & capabilities. There are ALOT more "Features" that would and SHOULD take priority over this feature.

 

There aren't enough chirp caches placed yet and enough chirp devices sold yet for other companies to start making the devices. While I love to find these. I probably would NEVER place one of these type caches. I allready have over 250 cache hides. Why? Because garmin Chirps are $20+ and little to expensive for my blood to possibly be muggled and lost! Not a risk I want to take. I am sure there are others the same way. Way different than spending $600 on a handheld GPS. That isn't something that is going to get muggled very easily.

 

My point of the thread & the suggstion. Is two fold. To bring this concept to the minds of cachers as well as Groundspeak that IT IS/WOULD be possible to find "Chirp" caches with an iOS, Android, Windows phone. I went to a caching event tonight. I mentioned the possibility of these capability. All but one had no clue that this was even possible.

 

One thing I do know... You can't want or desire something that you don't know exists. A demand has to be created for it. I am trying to create the demand. 20 years ago no one wanted GPS except the military. Now everyone wants GPS everywhere. In their cars, their phones, & even their Tablet PCs.

 

TGC

 

P.S. I have been using GPS in my vehicle as a private citizen for the last 20 years.

Edited December 22, 2011 by texasgrillchef

[+TheWinterTrio]

There is an App for iOS that allows you to Receive and Program Chirp Devices. It's called "GeoBeacon", made by the same comapny that created the Wherigo app that Groundspeak purchased. (Mabye GS could buy that one too and incorparate it into the Standard App...)

 

There's only one review, so not sure how well it works, but if I had an ANT+ adapter for my iPhone, I'd spend the $1.99 to try it out.

 

I'd love to see it in the App, but there are many other things I'd rather they work on first...

 

-TWT

Edited December 27, 2011 by TheWinterTrio

[+JesandTodd]

Just looked that app up..it says you can find "some" beacon geocaches. I can't recall if I've ever seen any beacon caches around me-in either of the 2 states I've lived. So i don't think I can even test this out.

[+JesandTodd]

I take it back...i ran a query and found that there are 12 within 100 miles of me. I'll give this app a try...

[+TheWinterTrio]

I take it back...i ran a query and found that there are 12 within 100 miles of me. I'll give this app a try...

Hmm.. That means there are probably that many near us as well... How did you query for them?

[+JesandTodd]

Just ran a PQ and selected it as an attribute,..

[+texasgrillchef]

There is an App for iOS that allows you to Receive and Program Chirp Devices. It's called "GeoBeacon", made by the same comapny that created the Wherigo app that Groundspeak purchased. (Mabye GS could buy that one too and incorparate it into the Standard App...)

 

There's only one review, so not sure how well it works, but if I had an ANT+ adapter for my iPhone, I'd spend the $1.99 to try it out.

 

I'd love to see it in the App, but there are many other things I'd rather they work on first...

 

-TWT

 

TWT... LOL I agree that their are ALOT of other issues & features that should be worked on & initiated, or in other words take a higher priority, than this feature suggestion.

 

I was just wanting to add it to the list. Because I do think it should be added at some point.

 

I tried searching for this app for the iOS devices, with no luck. Do you remember the name of it? I would be willing to spend $2 for it as well.

 

TGC

 

Well for "My" area... being the state of Texas for the most part. There aren't that many. But enough to make me want to find them.

Edited January 9, 2012 by texasgrillchef

[+TheWinterTrio]

If I'm allowed post links, here is the link directly to itunes.

 

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/geobeacon/id449451508?mt=8

[+Kuchenmops]

I would really appreciate if this feature would be added to the android app. My phone supports ANT+ and I don't want to buy a Garmin GPS just for this kind of caches.

[+Jeff60523]

Any chance GeoBeacon will work with the Nike+ module plugged into an iPhone 4s? The GeoBeacon folks suggest you need an $80 fisca (sp?) module, but if the Nike+ device uses the same technology, it is only $30.

[+spstanley]

Any chance GeoBeacon will work with the Nike+ module plugged into an iPhone 4s? The GeoBeacon folks suggest you need an $80 fisca (sp?) module, but if the Nike+ device uses the same technology, it is only $30.

 

I don't think the Nike+ will work. I suspect part of the reason is that the Nike+ uses a different frequency than the Chirp. I've requested an API from Garmin for their iPhone device but so far they haven't responded, so for now GeoBeacon only works with the Wahoo Fitness devices.

[+T.D.M.22]

Isn't CHIRP a Garmin product? therefore you would have to talk to Garmin and not Groundspeak.

AND Groundspeak rules state that any CHIRP(or similar) caches still need to be able to be found be ALL users, weather or not they can or can't receive the CHIRP's signal.

[Pup Patrol]

AND Groundspeak rules state that any CHIRP(or similar) caches still need to be able to be found be ALL users, weather or not they can or can't receive the CHIRP's signal.

 

I'm not seeing that requirement:

 

Help Center → Geocaching → Review Process: Hiding a Geocache → Beacon Caches

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=303

 

4.17. Beacon Caches

 

Cache owners, please observe the the following requirements:

 

All caches that utilize a beacon must have the "beacon" attribute (pictured above) on the cache page

 

If the cache owner does not provide an alternative means of finding the cache, it must be listed as an Unknown cache

 

A beacon can be listed as a type other then Unknown, if seekers can find the cache without using the beacon.

 

Intermediate waypoints using a beacon should be designated as "Stage of a Multi-Cache"

 

Cache descriptions may mention the "Chirp" (a specific beacon) only if the text is brief and does not have overtones of promotion, marketing or advertising, as per our commercial guidelines. Names of GPS companies and compatible models of GPS units are not appropriate on a cache page.

 

There are no plans to add a beacon cache type.

 

 

B.