SUBMITTED (32139) - [FEATURE] Mark caches with "corrected coordinates" when exporting through PQ or API

[+sbeelis]

I really like what you have done with the corrected coordinates feature you added in your latest update.

 

I am especially looking forward to your adding this to the API which will then let me show those caches in their correct place on my iPhone App maps.

 

However, I have encountered a snag with the feature:

 

I am also a user of GSAK which has had the "corrected coordinate" feature for a long time. It keeps two separate variables for the original (and optionally) corrected coordinates. It also lets me filter for caches where the two sets of coords differ, letting my quickly see, which caches I have "solved".

 

For testing, I corrected the coordinates on geocaching.com for one of the caches that I have already corrected in GSAK, then I downloaded the "single GPX" file for that cache. It seems that in that GPX you *only* deliver the corrected coordinates instead of the original coordinates. This means that GSAK has no way of determining that these are corrected coordinates and will therefore overwrite its "original coordinate" field with the corrected ones included in your GPX file. After this, such caches will obviously no longer be included in my "corredted coordinate" filter (as both the original and corrected coord fields now contain the corrected coordinates).

 

I realise that this is ultimately not your problem, but in order for GSAK to be able to solve this issue, it will need a way to detect if the coords delivered in the sinlge GPX file (and later on in the PQ and API data) are the original ones or corrected ones. I also realise that you cannot leave the original coordinates in the place they were so far and add the corrected ones in a GPX extension, as that would not work with most GPSr devices. I am therefore suggesting that when you extend the PQ and API to include this information, you add a possibility to somehow indicate the correction.

 

I can imagine various ways of doing this:

• automatically adding a waypoint containing the original coordinates (with a fixed naming scheme to easily identify this waypoint) as already suggested in this feature request
  
• extend the GPX syntax to include the original coordinates (basically the first idea but using a GPX extension instead of an automatic waypoint
  
• adding a new attribute called "corrected coordinates" (though that would be a less than ideal solution as the original coords would not be inlcuded)
  
• if you can think of any other way, that's fine by me, as long as the information is included
  

 

Thanks for considering this.

[Moun10Bike]

Thank you for the suggestion. I have added the idea to our internal queue and linked it to this thread as well as http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=285011.

[+Hynr]

I would like to add another perspective to this: there are many avid geocachers who are taking on the various DeLorme, County etc challenges. The majority (perhaps all) of the challenges that allow counting puzzle caches allow them to be counted at "the posted coordinates" rather than at the solved coordinates. If the Groundspeak corrected coordinates are implemented in all the data streams as seems to be the future, then the individual users will not be seeing the posted coordinates in the data that they use to demonstrate to the challenge owner that they met the challenge. This will cause considerable confusion as individual cachers will claim to have met a challenge based on their own data, but challenge cache owners will not be seeing it that way. It does seem to me that the gpx data stream needs to contain both the posted and corrected coordinates as well as some indication for each which it is.

[+GeePa]

+1 to Hynr's post

 

I think that the wpt element should contain the corrected coordinates to make it proper for direct download to a GPSr. There should be a new optional Groundspeak: element added for the original coordinates. If this new element is present then any program reading the gpx file can know that the wpt element is actually corrected coordinates (otherwise the wpt element is the original coordinates)

Edited November 17, 2011 by GeePa

[+Avernar]

• automatically adding a waypoint containing the original coordinates (with a fixed naming scheme to easily identify this waypoint) as already suggested in this feature request
  

This is compatible with the old GPX schema.

 

• extend the GPX syntax to include the original coordinates (basically the first idea but using a GPX extension instead of an automatic waypoint
  

This is the preferred solution but would only be in the new GPX schema.

[+GeePa]

• extend the GPX syntax to include the original coordinates (basically the first idea but using a GPX extension instead of an automatic waypoint
  

This is the preferred solution but would only be in the new GPX schema.

Agreed, but I see the first option as such a kluge. I really hope they opt to just add it in with the other extensions coming with the new schema.

[+northernpenguin]

• automatically adding a waypoint containing the original coordinates (with a fixed naming scheme to easily identify this waypoint) as already suggested in this feature request
  

This is compatible with the old GPX schema.

 

Me, I'd rather the GPX keep coming the way it has for years, and send the *corrected* coordinates as a new waypoint. Just change the GC to CC on the front or something.

That way I keep on using GSAK the way I always have, my database doesn't suddenly go weird and I can still push "corrected coords" out to my GPS without changing a thing in my export methods.

[jholly]

• automatically adding a waypoint containing the original coordinates (with a fixed naming scheme to easily identify this waypoint) as already suggested in this feature request
  

This is compatible with the old GPX schema.

 

Me, I'd rather the GPX keep coming the way it has for years, and send the *corrected* coordinates as a new waypoint. Just change the GC to CC on the front or something.

That way I keep on using GSAK the way I always have, my database doesn't suddenly go weird and I can still push "corrected coords" out to my GPS without changing a thing in my export methods.

I agree 100%. Changing behavior at this point will break lots of stuff. Keep it backwards compatible.

[+Avernar]

Me, I'd rather the GPX keep coming the way it has for years, and send the *corrected* coordinates as a new waypoint. Just change the GC to CC on the front or something.

That way I keep on using GSAK the way I always have, my database doesn't suddenly go weird and I can still push "corrected coords" out to my GPS without changing a thing in my export methods.

The problem with that is new users trying out the feature. They'd dump the GPX on their GPSr and end up going to the posted coordinates because that's what the unit will set as the destination when the they pick a geocache to find.

 

You'll still be able to use GSAK the way you always have as clyde will just modify it to pull the original coordinates from the GPX.

[+northernpenguin]

Me, I'd rather the GPX keep coming the way it has for years, and send the *corrected* coordinates as a new waypoint. Just change the GC to CC on the front or something.

That way I keep on using GSAK the way I always have, my database doesn't suddenly go weird and I can still push "corrected coords" out to my GPS without changing a thing in my export methods.

The problem with that is new users trying out the feature. They'd dump the GPX on their GPSr and end up going to the posted coordinates because that's what the unit will set as the destination when the they pick a geocache to find.

 

You'll still be able to use GSAK the way you always have as clyde will just modify it to pull the original coordinates from the GPX.

 

... and MacCaching ... and Geosphere ... and whatever other tools are out there.

We can't protect newbies from all harm. There are still plenty that head to the posted co-ordinates for a Mystery/Unknown cache, with a printout of the cache page in their hand ....

[+Avernar]

But you're proposing that the corrected coordinates feature on the site work differently than it does in GSAK. When I correct coordinates in GSAK the corrected coordinates is what gets exported to the GPS, not a child waypoint.

 

It's much more intuitive for the GPSr (and eventually the iPhone app) to go for the corrected coordinates by default.

 

Having the original coordinates handy is for the small minority of puzzles that use them for parking/trailhead.

[+GeePa]

But you're proposing that the corrected coordinates feature on the site work differently than it does in GSAK. When I correct coordinates in GSAK the corrected coordinates is what gets exported to the GPS, not a child waypoint.

 

It's much more intuitive for the GPSr (and eventually the iPhone app) to go for the corrected coordinates by default.

 

Having the original coordinates handy is for the small minority of puzzles that use them for parking/trailhead.

 

I totally agree with Avernar here. Having the corrected coordinates as a child waypoint would actually totally change the way I use GSAK. Right now, if I have corrected coordinates in GSAK then it outputs those as the coordinates to my GPSr which is what I want. I would find really confusing to have the correct coordinates show up under some other waypoint on my GPSr. If it does end up as a child waypoint then I sure hope it is recognizable as such so Clyde clyde can make GSAK ignore that waypoint and load it to GSAK as the corrected coordinates then.