Photo naming document?

[foxtrot_xray]

Hey guys -

A long time ago there was a thread that had a link to Recovery and Photo naming guidelines. The link (don't have it handy at the moment..) is no longer valid. Does anyone know what the document was, and where it could be gotten?

 

OR - what I'm actually interested in, and can look up if I had the document, is -

What's the recommended NGS naming guidelines for photographs?

 

Cheers -

Mike.

[wister6813]

I'm not sure about a document, but this is from the DSWORLD program -

Naming the Photograph

 

Monuments already in the NGS Database must be named according to the following convention:

 

Photo 1 - PID-NAME-1-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'AB1234-SMITH_RM_2-1-20060131.jpg'

Photo 2 - PID-NAME-2-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'AB1234-SMITH_RM_2-2-20060131.jpg

Photo 3 - PID-NAME-3DIR-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex - 'AB1234-SMITH_RM_2-3NE-20060131.jpg

 

Note: Dashes separate the required items and underscores are used in place of spaces.

 

Monuments without PIDs must be named according to the following convention:

 

Photo 1 - NAME-1-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'SMITH_RM_2-1-20060131.jpg'

Photo 2 - NAME-2-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'SMITH_RM_2-2-20060131.jpg

Photo 3 - NAME-3DIR-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex - 'SMITH_RM_2-3NE-20060131.jpg

 

About a month ago I recieved an e-mail from Malcolm Archer-Shee describing a few changes specific to photos. Malcolm is the developer of the DSWORLD program.

 

1) The NGS’s Products and services committee has just approved the submittal of digital photographs up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

2) Captions in photos are now optional.

3) The latest update of DSWorld will allow editing and the submittal of multiple photos up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

4) It also has a menu item for submitting photo trouble reports.

[+LSUFan]

Mike, a little more clarification on the naming schemes

 

The photo numbers of 1,2,3 (or more with earlier releases of DSWorld) that come after the marks name, are specific to the view you are capturing.

 

You will use the number 1 when it's a closeup pic of the mark

 

You will use the number 2 when it's a tripod height/eye level pic of the mark

 

You will use the number 3, then add the compass direction initials you are facing, when it's a horizontal/scale pic of the mark.

 

With earlier releases of DSWorld, you could just keep using higher numbers of 4+ for each scale pic you submitted. However, it seems with the latest release that every scale pic is going to have only the number 3 and compass direction with it.....even if you took 5 scale pics, they all will have the number 3 in the name.

 

I also talked to Malcolm about why DSWorld will actually name the pics one way, but change the order of the PID/Name on the pic when you use the software to put a stamp on the pic itself. He said that was the way NGS wanted it.

 

So, to make it simple for naming the actual jpeg photo. It needs to be the

1.PID# (then a dash -)

2.mark name (use underscores_ for spaces in the name)(another dash -)

3.number of photo (1 for closeup, 2 for eye level, or 3 for scale/horizontal...if it's a 3, then you also need the compass direction following (N,S,E,W,NE,NNE, etc) then (another dash -)

4.Date photo taken (YearMonthDay all together, no spaces)

 

Here are some examples: I use DSWorld to name the pics for me as well as stamp them for me......and use the same named photos for geocaching and NGS recoveries now. You can see the name of the pics and when you click on them, you can see how the stamp has the PID/Name order reversed.....but that's what DSWorld does. Also, I didn't take a tripod/eye level pic of the mark, so there is no # 2 pic

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=BW1569

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=DK0988

 

Using DSWorld (or manually doing them in the NGS format) to name the photos does make it a lot easier to go back and look them up again on your computer. You can instantaneously look at the name and know what it is.

Edited September 2, 2011 by LSUFan

[foxtrot_xray]

Thanks guys.

 

I'm going to stay with my naming convention ("AA1111 (A 1)\Disk.jpg" or "AA1111 (A 1)\View N.jpg") but since the Android app will allow taking pictures, I figured it'd be best if THAT followed the naming convention.

 

Quick question tho -

Using the naming convention above, what/how do you name pictures of RM and AZ disks?

[+LSUFan]

 

Monuments without PIDs must be named according to the following convention:

 

Photo 1 - NAME-1-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'SMITH_RM_2-1-20060131.jpg'

Photo 2 - NAME-2-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex. - 'SMITH_RM_2-2-20060131.jpg

Photo 3 - NAME-3DIR-DATE(YYYYMMDD).jpg Ex - 'SMITH_RM_2-3NE-20060131.jpg

 

 

Quick question tho -

Using the naming convention above, what/how do you name pictures of RM and AZ disks?

 

As Wister6813 pointed out above, if the RM or AZ mark doesn't have it's own PID, then you just leave that part off of the beginning and start with the name (then everything else is the same)..... and would include the pics in with the triangulation station mark recovery.

 

I have submitted some like this, but actually used the PID of the triangulation station, then the name/number of the reference/az mark secondly. Apparently, I wasn't supposed to do it like that........but without a PID, it would be hard to look at later and know which station the reference/az mark went with....just from the name itself, especially if the station is a common name.

 

I guess the NGS isn't going to give me that raise I asked for. LOL

Edited September 2, 2011 by LSUFan

[foxtrot_xray]

As Wister6813 pointed out above, if the RM or AZ mark doesn't have it's own PID, then you just leave that part off of the beginning and start with the name (then everything else is the same)..... and would include the pics in with the triangulation station mark recovery.

 

I have submitted some like this, but actually used the PID of the triangulation station, then the name/number of the reference/az mark secondly. Apparently, I wasn't supposed to do it like that........but without a PID, it would be hard to look at later and know which station the reference/az mark went with....just from the name itself, especially if the station is a common name.

 

Thanks - I'm an idiot. I had read that and then got distracted thinking about mark names, and then promptly forgot I he had posted that. And yeah, I do agree with your comment. I'll probably take the high road and pre-pend the station's PID, before the name. (Since the App will be putting them in a subdirectory anyways, no chance of images overwriting each other, and will be easier (logically) to determine if an image exists or not.)

 

Thanks -

Mike.

[ArtMan]

About a month ago I recieved an e-mail from Malcolm Archer-Shee describing a few changes specific to photos. Malcolm is the developer of the DSWORLD program.

 

1) The NGS's Products and services committee has just approved the submittal of digital photographs up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

2) Captions in photos are now optional.

3) The latest update of DSWorld will allow editing and the submittal of multiple photos up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

4) It also has a menu item for submitting photo trouble reports.

(Emphasis added)

 

Are photos this large actually being accepted now by NGS? With 2.5 times more pixels, the larger images should provide better resolution and detail for users. But as a former bureaucrat myself (now in remission), I know that often there is a time lag, and not always a brief one, between decision and implementation.

 

~ArrtMan~

[wister6813]

About a month ago I recieved an e-mail from Malcolm Archer-Shee describing a few changes specific to photos. Malcolm is the developer of the DSWORLD program.

 

1) The NGS's Products and services committee has just approved the submittal of digital photographs up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

2) Captions in photos are now optional.

3) The latest update of DSWorld will allow editing and the submittal of multiple photos up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

4) It also has a menu item for submitting photo trouble reports.

(Emphasis added)

 

Are photos this large actually being accepted now by NGS? With 2.5 times more pixels, the larger images should provide better resolution and detail for users. But as a former bureaucrat myself (now in remission), I know that often there is a time lag, and not always a brief one, between decision and implementation.

 

~ArrtMan~

 

Good question. Tonight, using DSWORLD v2.10.04, I attempted to upload three 1024x768 photos for AE2144. The program would not accept the photos. I upgraded to v2.10.11, and the program accepted the three photos. So I believe the larger photos will be accepted at this time.

 

Most HH2 coordinates and photos I submit through DSWORLD are included in the database in 5-10 days. My last batch was submitted on 7/31, and reflected in the datasheets on 8/10. Based on prior experience the datasheet for AE2144 should have a link to the photos in a few days.

 

Bob

Edited September 7, 2011 by wister6813

[MRAS]

Thanks guys.

 

I'm going to stay with my naming convention ("AA1111 (A 1)\Disk.jpg" or "AA1111 (A 1)\View N.jpg") but since the Android app will allow taking pictures, I figured it'd be best if THAT followed the naming convention.

 

Quick question tho -

Using the naming convention above, what/how do you name pictures of RM and AZ disks?

 

To get the PID for a RM, CBL, or AZ MK:

 

1) Start DSWorld (The latest version is 2.10.12 as of 09/16/11)

2) Click 'Stations > All NGS IDB > By State and County' from the main menu.

3) Select the State and County of Interest.

4) Click the NOAA bird.

 

All marks in the NGS IDB will plot for the selected criteria including RMs, AZ MKs, Calibration Baseline Marks, Temporary Bench Marks, Destroyed Marks, as well as the publishable marks.

 

Note - The scaled position of RMs, CBLs, and AZ MKs may be significantly different than their actual GPS position. Be sure to send in a recovery report with updated information when you recover one!

 

Thanks.

MRAS

[foxtrot_xray]

Using the naming convention above, what/how do you name pictures of RM and AZ disks?

To get the PID for a RM, CBL, or AZ MK:

 

Thanks MRAS, however, that wasn't what I asked, and I highly doubt DSWorld works on an Android phone. Hence why I'm making an app.

[kayakbird]

Note - The scaled position of RMs, CBLs, and AZ MKs may be significantly different than their actual GPS position. Be sure to send in a recovery report with updated information when you recover one!

 

Thanks.

MRAS

MRAS,

 

I generally try to find RM'S and AZ's and record their HH2 (DDD MM SS.s format) in my field book but do not transfer

that info to my already cluttered master Excel spreadsheet. For a couple of years now I have been including the

AZ HH2 (DDDMMSS.s format) in my NGS recovery notes but feel that since most RM's are within the ten meter HH2

accuracy limits it is not necessary to list them.

 

If there are reciprocal errors or other problems I will note that.

 

JM0461 STATION RECOVERY (2009)

JM0461

JM0461'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2009 (MEL)

JM0461'HH2 383733.3 1085924.9

JM0461'

JM0461'RM 1 AND RM 2 WERE FOUND AT THE RECIPROCALS OF THE DS CALLS. SLOPE

JM0461'DISTANCE BETWEEN RM'S IS 49 FEET. THERE IS NO '1' IN THE DESIGNATION

JM0461'STAMPING, THE 'G' IS OVERSTAMPED ON A 'P', AND THE ELEVATION READS

JM0461''VA 7085'.

 

SR1136 STATION RECOVERY (2010)

SR1136

SR1136'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2010 (MEL)

SR1136'HH2 470243.9 1093611.2

SR1136'THE DS BEARINGS FOR RM 1 AND 2 ARE IN ERROR, THE BEARINGS FOR THE

SR1136'OTHER REFERENCE OBJECTS ARE APPROXIMATELY CORRECT. DISTANCES MEASURED

SR1136'WITH A TAUT FABRIC TAPE ON A WINDY DAY, THE BEARINGS FROM A HH2

SR1136'SCREEN.

SR1136'RM 1 002 DEGREES 32.45 FT HH2 470244.1 1093611.2.

SR1136'RM 2 175 DEGREES 27.55 FT HH2 470243.5 1093611.0

 

I will gladly provide RM HH2 to anyone that needs/wants them, but doubt that I will

increase my hobby work load by punching them in.

 

kayakbird

[foxtrot_xray]

I generally try to find RM'S and AZ's and record their HH2 (DDD MM SS.s format) in my field book but do not transfer

that info to my already cluttered master Excel spreadsheet. For a couple of years now I have been including the

AZ HH2 (DDDMMSS.s format) in my NGS recovery notes but feel that since most RM's are within the ten meter HH2

accuracy limits it is not necessary to list them.

Interesting.. completely off-topic (but that's okay, since I got my info).. How many folks here submit corrected coords on stations?

 

I've never bothered, since my main interest is in the written descriptions, honestly.

 

--Mike

[ArtMan]

Interesting.. completely off-topic (but that's okay, since I got my info).. How many folks here submit corrected coords on stations?

I've never bothered, since my main interest is in the written descriptions, honestly.

--Mike

The written description is important, but the written description often refers to the built environment, where things change all the time. (Two recent recoveries of mine involved a relocated highway and a relocated levee.) New datums notwithstanding, latitude and longitude is a more permanent way of identifying a place. So I try to submit updated coordinates for stations where the published location is scaled.

 

Even a handheld GPS is more accurate than approximating the position from a paper topo map. Although most scaled coordinates are pretty accurate, in my experience — less than 0.5 seconds off is pretty typical — sometimes it's a lot more than that, and particular in rural or otherwise undeveloped environments where landmarks are few, a little more accuracy can't but help.

 

If I don't take HH2 readings at the site (and sometimes even if I do), I find that Google Maps (right-click to drop a marker with Lat and Long in DD.DDDDDD format) or The National Map are excellent tools. In most cases Google seems to have better imagery, so you can get a better fix, but I sort of trust The National Map more, if I can get a good location on that platform.

 

~ArtMan~

[+Rotareneg]

I get a better sense of satisfaction when finding a mark by the description, but that's not exactly the point behind the marks themselves.

 

If a mark has scaled coordinates I submit new ones, either from GPS or aerial photography if in a GPS unfriendly location. I've never submitted coordinates for azimuth marks however, I just include their location in the recovery text.

[TillaMurphs]

How many folks here submit corrected coords on stations?

--Mike

 

Along with a written description, I usually submit HH2 coordinates from my GPS for bench marks that have scaled coordinates - even if the scaled coordinates are close to my HH2 coordinates. I know that others have said to only include HH2 coordinates if the scaled coordinates are way off. However, it seems like it is always good to provide handheld coordinates: they can either confirm that the scaled coordinates are indeed close or provide better information if the scaled coordinates are significantly off.

Edited September 17, 2011 by TillaMurphs

[southpawaz]

My practice is to submit HH2 coordinates for bench marks with scaled coordinates unless my reading is within GPS error of the scaled position. For triangulation stations, if I locate an azimuth mark, I will include its HH2 coordinates but I don't submit coordinates for reference marks with their own PIDs and scaled coordinates since those are easily calculated. I rarely spend much time writing new descriptions or to reach information; with GPS other resources available I don't personally see much need to do so.

[kayakbird]

If this 'Photo Naming' thread continues to drift off bearing maybe a moderator would like to shift several of the last posts to a previous one on the subject of including HH2 information in NGS recoveries.

 

My recovery procedure is to always include an HH2 and recently I have started using the very simple DSWORLD 'Submit' 'Single Hand Held Position(s)' if my Excel comparison column shows more than a second off. Usually just have to delete a digit or two and enter the correct SS.s.

 

I just submitted my recovery of the DRY complex (all with PID's) in Butte Co, South Dakota. BesideS discrepancies in the relative height of DRY AZ to the current roadway, the Lat/Long in it's DRY AZ MK DS puts it over eight degrees and 375 ft off. Correct Lat/Long was noted in the station recovery and previously submitted via DSWORLD.

 

Spotted the witness post

 

 

as I crested a ridge on a side road that I had taken in hopes of getting a glimpse of Devils Tower when I really was in a hurry to get to the state corners before it got too hot.

 

kayakbird

Edited September 17, 2011 by kayakbird

[ArtMan]

About a month ago I recieved an e-mail from Malcolm Archer-Shee describing a few changes specific to photos. Malcolm is the developer of the DSWORLD program.

 

1) The NGS's Products and services committee has just approved the submittal of digital photographs up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

2) Captions in photos are now optional.

3) The latest update of DSWorld will allow editing and the submittal of multiple photos up to 1024 x 768 pixels.

4) It also has a menu item for submitting photo trouble reports.

Some photos I uploaded two weeks ago (using DSWorld 2.10.00) sized 768x576 got downsized somewhere along the line to 640x480. DSWorld gave me no error message or other indication that it was scaling my pix, so it may have been done by NGS. Or possibly an example of why it's important to upgrade....

 

-ArtMan-