Caches for Premium Members

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Caches for Premium Members.

I have been wondering about this. What is the point of Premium Members only caches?

I am asking this question because I have noticed that non-Premium members log thier finds of these caches.

Surely if there is to be any point at all, then it just should not be possible for non-Premium members to log these caches?

Also, I am wondering, in what circumstances should a cache be specified as a Premium Member only cache? As a Premium Member do I automatically get notification of these caches or do I have to make a special setting somewhere?

I am a bit confused, and it would be great if someone could explain the thinking behind this??

Thanks.

Hettismum.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

The point is less people have access to them. It lowers the chances of a cache thief and the caches usually stay in better shape.

If you have notifications already set up then nothing additional needs to be done to get PMO notifications.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

The point is less people have access to them. It lowers the chances of a cache thief and the caches usually stay in better shape.

If you have notifications already set up then nothing additional needs to be done to get PMO notifications.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

yep. I can see that. But how do non-Premium members then get to know about these caches? And more importantly, why are they allowed to log that they have found them? Is it not possible to stop them from logging thier finds of Premium Caches? Surely without this additional 'safeguard' the reason d'etre is watered down a lot? It would seem to me to make sense all round: it would be an additional incentive for cachers to become Premium members.

Hettismum

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

yep. I can see that. But how do non-Premium members then get to know about these caches? And more importantly, why are they allowed to log that they have found them?

A family of cachers, mum and dad, youngsters have their own accounts to log finds.

One Premium Member, family caches together.

Groundspeak have a 'backdoor' to log the caches.

Once in an update it was closed, Soon re-opened.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

yep. I can see that. But how do non-Premium members then get to know about these caches? And more importantly, why are they allowed to log that they have found them?

A family of cachers, mum and dad, youngsters have their own accounts to log finds.

One Premium Member, family caches together.

Groundspeak have a 'backdoor' to log the caches.

Once in an update it was closed, Soon re-opened.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I wonder why it was 're-opened'?

This does just not make sense to me.

I have no personal interest. I live on the Shetland Islands (UK). There are no Premium Member only caches here (yet!). I am not thinking of setting any - we are just pleased when anyone at all takes the trouble to find our caches!!!!.

But it seems to me that this is an oppotunity missed to persuade folk to support the website.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

hettismum

mum of hetti?

You go caching with hetti. Sorry, hetti, you can't come with me on this cache, and you cant log it...

Groundspeak are looking at making a family membership, but at the moment it's a full membership fee for each member of the family who has an account...

Jeremy, Groundspeak founder, has said the 'Backdoor' will stay.

Another reason for PM caches is it stops the new phone app users from seeing the caches, unless they pay to become members, so less chance of them stealing caches for fun.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

hettismum

mum of hetti?

You go caching with hetti. Sorry, hetti, you can't come with me on this cache, and you cant log it...

Groundspeak are looking at making a family membership, but at the moment it's a full membership fee for each member of the family who has an account...

Jeremy, Groundspeak founder, has said the 'Backdoor' will stay.

Another reason for PM caches is it stops the new phone app users from seeing the caches, unless they pay to become members, so less chance of them stealing caches for fun.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Hetti is my cat. But I get your point. She would never have her own membership - my household account would not allow it!!!!!!!!

I think there is maybe a different culture stateside than here. In Shetland families cache all under the same username (this is probably because one household member is really keen and the rest just go along with it!!).

I am stil perplexed though. This would be a good way of tying folks in to being Premium Members. Afterall there are not many leisure organisations which allow longterm free membership, and running the site etc does cost stuff.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Stateside?

I'm not Stateside... :rolleyes:

Plenty of families cache together, and the kids have their own accounts.

(Even known for some dogs to have their own accounts...)

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Sorry - just assumed.

All my points remain valid, however.

I still just don't understand!!!!!!!

Its not a personal thing - there are no such caches on Shetland. I am just perplexed! One of my trackables landed in a Premium Only cache and that got me thinking.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I am stil perplexed though. This would be a good way of tying folks in to being Premium Members. Afterall there are not many leisure organisations which allow longterm free membership, and running the site etc does cost stuff.

Jeremy stated years ago, in writing, that geocaching will always be free. So far he has not renigned on that that promise nor has he ever made noises like he is going to. The way they tie folks to premium membership is the perks, PQ's, bookmarks, etc. The rules for logging a cache are if you signed the logbook you can log on line. If a non-premium member signs the logbook of a PMO cache they can log online. For geocaching to be free this has to be allowed, hence the Groundspeak sanctioned back door. And Groundspeak will side with the non-premium member that has a log deleted on a PMO because they were not a premium member and will reinstate the deleted log. They are very serious about this aspect of the game. Besides the premium memberships the site gathers advertising dollars and they have quite a commercial retail operation and they are the sole source for tracking numbers on bugs and coins.

Edited June 19, 2011 by jholly

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Just accept it.

If you want to know where the PM cache is, with your TB, email the cache owner. Most are happy to say, if they know why you're asking.

I don't think membership fees are a big issue. Jeremy has always said that the site will remain free.

The only problem would be if every cache hider turned round and made their caches PM, and I can't see that happening. :laughing:

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I am stil perplexed though. This would be a good way of tying folks in to being Premium Members. Afterall there are not many leisure organisations which allow longterm free membership, and running the site etc does cost stuff.

Jeremy stated years ago, in writing, that geocaching will always be free. So far he has not renigned on that that promise nor has he ever made noises like he is going to. The way they tie folks to premium membership is the perks, PQ's, bookmarks, etc. The rules for logging a cache are if you signed the logbook you can log on line. If a non-premium member signs the logbook of a PMO cache they can log online. For geocaching to be free this has to be allowed, hence the Groundspeak sanctioned back door. And Groundspeak will side with the non-premium member that has a log deleted on a PMO because they were not a premium member and will reinstate the deleted log. They are very serious about this aspect of the game. Besides the premium memberships the site gathers advertising dollars and they have quite a commercial retail operation and they are the sole source for tracking numbers on bugs and coins.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I get the point.

I would not have been thinking of rescinding logs anyway.

I was really just wondering what the 'craic' was here!

I have just been perplexed.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Just accept it.

If you want to know where the PM cache is, with your TB, email the cache owner. Most are happy to say, if they know why you're asking.

I don't think membership fees are a big issue. Jeremy has always said that the site will remain free.

The only problem would be if every cache hider turned round and made their caches PM, and I can't see that happening.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Hi hettismum

The discussions about PM caches appear regularly on these forums. Some cachers believe the whole idea of having PM caches is "elitist", others think it's the greatest (caching) idea since the discovery of the magnetic nano cache. Some geocachers never make their caches PM, some make their brand new cache PM and then make it available to all members after the first rush of Finds has passed, other cachers have decided to make their caches PM only after caches in their areas have been deliberately muggled/trashed.

There are pros and cons both ways.

MrsB

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I AM a premium member!

As I said this is not a personal issue at all nor any level.

I was just wondering what the point was of having some caches only for premium members when it feels like they are very accessible to any member, and given that any member can log them.

And even after 'hearing' all that has been said....I am still wondering!!!!

It seems to me that this is a non-class and should be done away with.

Best wishes.

Hettismum.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

If there were no premium caches, I would not have placed some of my caches. I'm not going to spend over $100 to see it muggled in three weeks.

In our area, Premium caches last longer.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

If there were no premium caches, I would not have placed some of my caches. I'm not going to spend over $100 to see it muggled in three weeks.

In our area, Premium caches last longer.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

If there were no premium caches, I would not have placed some of my caches. I'm not going to spend over $100 to see it muggled in three weeks.

In our area, Premium caches last longer.

So then I am wondering how you actually feel that non Premium members can still post logs to your caches?

So asking a diredct question: 'how do you feel when non-Premium members log that they have found your Premium Member only cache'??

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

It wouldn't bother me a bit. My concern is the bored teenager playing with his new phone and loading a free geocaching app then deciding to grab or destroy that "cool thing" I placed by his house.

A basic member who can find a premium cache is not a bigger risk to my caches than a premium member.

Don't forget, I pay a price for my choice. I get less find notices because of the premium tag and I LIKE Finds on my caches.

It isn't a 'snob' thing, its just an unfortunate reality of placing 'cool' caches in my area.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

And Non Premium Members can't see where the cache is from the page, they need that information (Coordinates) from a PM.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

A basic member who can find a premium cache is not a bigger risk to my caches than a premium member.

That's the key for me right there. When I was a basic member (only about 4 months ago), I knew exactly how to find premium caches--it's a bit of an agonizing and slow process, but it works with a great deal of accuracy. The point is--I went through the trouble to find those PMO caches for my Geocaching benefit. A bored kid who decides to go caching one day isn't going to go through the trouble to find a PMO cache when he can simply ransack the basic-member cache that's located .1 mile from his current location.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

And Non Premium Members can't see where the cache is from the page, they need that information (Coordinates) from a PM.

Well... They don't REALLY need it from a PM... There's another way, of course! Keep putting coords into "hide and seek a cache" until the arrows are pointing N/E/S/W as you change from one digit to the next... I don't think I'm explaining that well, but I'm sure someone out there understands what I'm saying, haha.

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

I was out caching today and I found one cache and then searched for another near me and went on to that one, which was only about a city block away from where I was at the time. I went to find the next one and it wasn't there. I came home and went to comment on the 2nd cache on my computer that it wasn't there and got the message that the cache was for premium members only. I thought maybe it was because I did it over my phone, but I couldn't access it again on my phone either! So it must have just been because I was so close to it and looked for ones close to me??? Anyway, I left a cache in the 2nd location even though I didn't find one so it won't be a dud for the next cacher!

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Anyway, I left a cache in the 2nd location even though I didn't find one so it won't be a dud for the next cacher!

Sorry, you left a cache there?

Bad move.

That now means there's probably two caches there. The original cache, and the one you left.

Sure is going to confuse the next cachers... :unsure:

Posted June 19, 2011 · June 19, 2011

Sundays are usually reserved for discussions on problems with the website. According to the Forum Schedule, the next discussion on Premium Member Only caches is scheduled on Sunday in September.

Posted June 20, 2011 · June 20, 2011

PMs get the coordinates to PMO caches, basic members don't. If they are with a PM, and find the cache, they can either log via the backdoor, or retroactively when they become a PM. I did the latter with those I could remember when I got my act together and sprang for premium membership. I didn't know of a back door method until recently, and even then, thought the CO would have deleted my log as the cache was for premium members. I was wrong!

Posted June 20, 2011 · June 20, 2011

PMs get the coordinates to PMO caches, basic members don't. If they are with a PM, and find the cache, they can either log via the backdoor, or retroactively when they become a PM. I did the latter with those I could remember when I got my act together and sprang for premium membership. I didn't know of a back door method until recently, and even then, thought the CO would have deleted my log as the cache was for premium members. I was wrong!

Hi I'm a basic member and I would like to place a new ordinary cache near to a premium cache - how do I know when I'm over 100m away from it??

Thanks

CS

Edited June 20, 2011 by currystomper

Posted June 20, 2011 · June 20, 2011

If there were no premium caches, I would not have placed some of my caches. I'm not going to spend over $100 to see it muggled in three weeks.

In our area, Premium caches last longer.

So then I am wondering how you actually feel that non Premium members can still post logs to your caches?

So asking a diredct question: 'how do you feel when non-Premium members log that they have found your Premium Member only cache'??

I think the point is that your run-of-the-mill fly-by-night non-premium member (wow! That's a lot of hyphens!!) can't view the cache coordinates or map, making it a bit tougher to muggle them. That, along with the fairly useless audit log at least provides a modicum of protection against "cache maggots".

Posted June 20, 2011 · June 20, 2011

PMs get the coordinates to PMO caches, basic members don't. If they are with a PM, and find the cache, they can either log via the backdoor, or retroactively when they become a PM. I did the latter with those I could remember when I got my act together and sprang for premium membership. I didn't know of a back door method until recently, and even then, thought the CO would have deleted my log as the cache was for premium members. I was wrong!

Hi I'm a basic member and I would like to place a new ordinary cache near to a premium cache - how do I know when I'm over 100m away from it??

Thanks

CS

Actually you want to be more than 161m away. But look here. Pay particular attention to steps 2 and 3. There you go.

Caches for Premium Members

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