PC mapping software help

[Bigbudman]

Here is want i need to do. I'm a realtor that sells big tracts of land. These tracts are shown on deed maps in the town records, but very hard to find on foot. I would like to map the location using a pc based software, and transfer routes and coordinates to the gps for the on foot portion of my search. I dont know if this is even possible, but I would love to combine my work with hiking. What would be cooler than that?

Thanks in advance,

Bud

[+dakboy]

DeLorme TopoUSA (bundled with their Earthmate PN-series devices) is well-suited to this.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

This:

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthmate-PN...6703&sr=1-1

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I would avoid Topo USA.

 

But before getting into what software to get, how are you going to go from deed maps to software? Is there any form of electronic data available?

[+dakboy]

I would avoid Topo USA.

Why?

map the location using a pc based software, and transfer routes and coordinates to the gps for the on foot portion of my search

TopoUSA does all of these things. It does the job being requested - if you're going to reject an application which has every feature the OP has asked for, please explain why

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

So will a lot of programs. I find Topo USA to be powerful but unintuitive. If he doesn't need the power of it, I'd use something else. It's just my personal opinion.

 

I'm still not clear what the OP is actually planning to do though.

[Bigbudman]

I would avoid Topo USA.

 

But before getting into what software to get, how are you going to go from deed maps to software? Is there any form of electronic data available?

 

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme. I dont know how i will transfer deed coord, other than waypoint mark physical landmarks and use them as a reference. It wont be exact, but these lots at 50 acres plus. If I can ballpark them it will help, once we have a buyer, I'll have them surveyed.

Any thoughts?

[+dakboy]

I would avoid Topo USA.

 

But before getting into what software to get, how are you going to go from deed maps to software? Is there any form of electronic data available?

 

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme. I dont know how i will transfer deed coord, other than waypoint mark physical landmarks and use them as a reference. It wont be exact, but these lots at 50 acres plus. If I can ballpark them it will help, once we have a buyer, I'll have them surveyed.

Any thoughts?

There's at least one person over on the DeLorme forums doing almost exactly what you describe.

[+Indotguy]

You might also look into a program called Global Mapper (single license ~$350). Many maps and shape files are available online for free. Scanned maps can be geo-referenced, line features traced and exported in various device formats. I use it in Geocaching to export roads, boundaries, trails, waypoints, etc. which I then load into my Lowrance GPS and use in the field.

[seldom_sn]

You might also look into a program called Global Mapper (single license ~$350). Many maps and shape files are available online for free. Scanned maps can be geo-referenced, line features traced and exported in various device formats. I use it in Geocaching to export roads, boundaries, trails, waypoints, etc. which I then load into my Lowrance GPS and use in the field.

 

Global Mapper would be a good way to generate homemade vector maps, but it's a lousy drafting tool. So the OP needs to find a way to get his deed descriptions into a format he can use on a GPSr. That would either be a scanned raster map, georeferenced, or a vector generated drawing, from something like AutoCad, or a similar product that would create a suitable DXF file of the meets and bounds. Since the cost of an AutoCad seat is a lot greater than the cost of Global Mapper, he might find it worthwhile to contract out all his mapping to someone who already posesses the tools. But with the right software and data, his request is eminently possible.

 

The choice of GPSr is important because some of the older Garmins don't support raster imagery. My experience is limited to Garmins, but I'd suggest the OP obtain something like an Oregon or one of the 78 or 62 series units.

Edited June 13, 2010 by seldom_sn

[Bigbudman]

All great info guys, i will continue my research. The deed maps im using are pretty old, I think general landmarks will be the best I can get off them as a comparitive to transfer to mapping software.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I would caution all responders to refrain from using the G-word in a future post.

Allison Wunderland may pick up on it and append is several score line transcript.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

All great info guys, i will continue my research. The deed maps im using are pretty old, I think general landmarks will be the best I can get off them as a comparitive to transfer to mapping software.

I think that I understand your concept of operation.

It's late now, but if you wish, tomorrow I could make a quick sketch of that which I think that you want and could post it.

Would that be of help to you?

Basically, I would use the DeLorme Topo USA 8.0 mapping application to define some waypoints, overlay them on some aerial photo imagery for real world visualization and then connect them with lines, tracks or routes.

These lines will also illustrated lengths and bounded area.

 

All of the resultant data can be intuitively transferred to a DeLorme PN-40, as one might expect.

 

I would need to use nothing that was not in the box, no third party software, free or otherwise, required.

[+coggins]

Here is want i need to do. I'm a realtor that sells big tracts of land. These tracts are shown on deed maps in the town records, but very hard to find on foot. I would like to map the location using a pc based software, and transfer routes and coordinates to the gps for the on foot portion of my search. I dont know if this is even possible, but I would love to combine my work with hiking. What would be cooler than that?

Thanks in advance,

Bud

Global Mapper would fit this bill quite nicely.

[+Woodstramp]

Bud,

 

I have no idea what kind of info comes from the deeds you mention, but I was able to do what you are attempting. Well, at least for my county in Alabama.

 

Lucked up and found this local GIS info site: http://webgis.stclairco.com/flexview/

 

That view has a property line overlay on top of aerials, but the viewer gives coordinates in a X/Y format. Had no idea how to use that format with the Delorme Topo. It was either here or at the Delorme forums but someone showed me that the Delorme software could be set to accept this specific coordinate data.

 

I thought that was pretty wild that Topo 8 would have such a specific coordinate option (Eastern Alabam type), but it did. To check the accuracy I got the XY coords for my property corners from that GIS data site (written down on paper) and set up Topo 8 for that format and set waypoints at those coordinates. Then I transfered those WP's to my PN-20. Took it out and checked how close I could get to two of my known property cormers. Both were less than 30' off the actual cormer stakes (steel rods I set after our orignal land survey).

 

That was as far as I took it, but I was impressed.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Yeah, it's quite possible that your county or city has a GIS site with parcel lines showing on a map/aerial, or available as a data set. This could make things a lot easier for you.

[+user13371]

All of the resultant data can be intuitively transferred to a DeLorme PN-40, as one might expect.

What, you don't need a cable and software? This must be the new model

 

If I understand what the OP is trying to do -- get precise locations from old records that don't handily (intuitively?) convert into present-day coords, and put those onto a mapping handheld GPS -- it seems like some of the suggested options may be a bit over-complicated and expensive. I'd want a little more info before I tossed out suggestions.

 

For starters: How old are some of these town records, and where are they?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

All of the resultant data can be intuitively transferred to a DeLorme PN-40, as one might expect.

What, you don't need a cable and software? This must be the new model

 

No, I failed to note a transfer from Topo USA 8.0 with the proprietary cable after waypoints and boundaries are defined in Topo.

 

I would just look at the subject property in the left window of Topo 8 with the aerial imagery,

click on the corners, where appropriate, to define waypoints, connect those with the polygon tool to define the perimeter and transfer to PN-40, with which he is going to subsequently walk.

[+user13371]

...I would just look at the subject property in the left window of Topo 8 with the aerial imagery...

BUT: If he knows where the subject property is -- closely enough to spot it in Topo 8's aerial imagery, for example -- then he doesn't really need Topo 8! Or Global Mapper or most of the other solutions previously mentioned. They all seem like expensive overkill to me.

 

This is free: http://www.gearthblog.com/kmfiles/topomaps.kmz and works with Google Earth - so you'd get aerial imagery and USGS topo maps without buying online subscriptions or being tied to any specific GPS vendor or computing platform. He could even try this out BEFORE having a GPS to see if it'll work for him. Once you have waypoints and tracks made in Google Earth it's pretty simple to transfer them to either a DeLorme or a Garmin.

 

UNLESS -- is there something really tricky about the old maps he has and it's gonna take some extra effort (or be impossible) to pinpoint the locations just using Google Earth or a topo map? I'd really need to know more about the old town maps to be sure.

Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

<duplicate post>

Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+coggins]

Or Global Mapper or most of the other solutions previously mentioned. They all seem like expensive overkill to me.

The free version of Global Mapper might be enough for his use. Doesn't lock him into any brand of GPSr and well, it's free with excellent support. Also, it's well... global. Also has plenty of imagery, USGS topos, etc... As the OP is in RI, I'm sure he may be interested in metes and bounds land descriptions.

[+user13371]

What are the limitations on a free/unregistered copy of Global Mapper? I've not been able to get it to work under CrossOver on my Mac.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme.

What has been overlooked in the intervening posts is the possiblity of upgrading to a DeLorme PN-XX in any event.

If so, Topo USA 8.0 is bundled in the box at no extra cost.

Comes with the territory, so to speak.

[seldom_sn]

What are the limitations on a free/unregistered copy of Global Mapper? I've not been able to get it to work under CrossOver on my Mac.

Generally it will let you see most everything it can do, but will let you save or print very little you can use.

 

I've had no problems using the registered 64 bit version in Win7-64. If you have specific hardware questions post them here:

 

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/global_mapper/

Edited June 13, 2010 by seldom_sn

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme.

 

Consequently, it Bbm follows up with the upgrade to a DeLorme PN-XX, also in the box is a certificate to download a sample of the aerial photo imagery.

With the photo imagery and Topo USA 8.0, I've prepared an example of something that he might want to do:

http://mapshare.delorme.com/Consumer/V.aspx?p=spnyhzy4

Being very intuititive to use, it took me less than 5 minutes after the application booted up.

Within my PN-40 connected, it would take less than two minutes of keystoking and clicking to transfer.

This would be after a preceeding two minutes of similar to create a "Draw Layer" with the waypoints and periphery to transfer.

 

Note:

1. Being local, I have the foreknowledge that it is a single property; therefore, the borders are obvious as they follow city streets on three sides and a single family housing tract to the north.

2. The red pushpin waypoints are independent of the orange border (polygon tool) which is the basis of the Topo 8.0's area calculation of 10.88 acres.

3. Walking the property, another set of waypoints can be recorded on the PN-40 and easily transferred back to Topo 8 and popped back on the map.

 

Outside of that, it's been a real struggle.....

[seldom_sn]

Here is want i need to do. I'm a realtor that sells big tracts of land. These tracts are shown on deed maps in the town records, but very hard to find on foot. I would like to map the location using a pc based software, and transfer routes and coordinates to the gps for the on foot portion of my search. I dont know if this is even possible, but I would love to combine my work with hiking. What would be cooler than that?

Thanks in advance,

Bud

 

Coggins, Lee, and Papa,

Papa, your example is not what I'd call hard to find on foot. From what the OP describes, I'm imagining undeveloped desert.

 

What I assumed the OP is asking for is at the very least waypoints at the corners of property parcels, so he needs to convert points described in deed descriptions into Lat/Lon. The descriptions generally start at a point on the ground, and subsequent points are located by a distance from the starting point (or the last point measured) and an angle from North.

 

So the OP needs to be able to convert distances and bearings created in a projection like UTM into Geographic coordinates. Maybe easy to do with raster graphics if you can see enough ground control points in Google Earth, maybe really hard to do if your raster graphic isn't fine enough to resolve the ground control points. That's why I mentioned AutoCad or something similar.

 

Will TopoUSA really let you start in UTM, draw lines with a distance and bearing, and then convert to Geographic Coordinates?

Edited June 13, 2010 by seldom_sn

[39_Steps]

So will a lot of programs. I find Topo USA to be powerful but unintuitive. If he doesn't need the power of it, I'd use something else. It's just my personal opinion.

 

I'm still not clear what the OP is actually planning to do though.

Redwoods Mtn Biker seems to have made the strongest argument in favor of using Delorme Topo USA for the purposes of the original poster: The built in power of the program.

 

Topo8 does include State Plane Coordinate System Grids fo Rhode Island and other states, and it does have a feature for importing Survey information and having the program assist in converting the geometric shapes. It is a powerful program,and it does come in the bundle with the PN-40 GPS device. The PN-40 is also capable of displaying many of the same vectors and downloaded imagery that is available for the computer application, and/or could be connected to a Notebook computer as a GPS receiver if taking the computer to the site is preferred. Waypoints and maps with Draw Objects included can be transferred between the computer and the GPS device by USB connection or by SD card with the latest firmware.

[+user13371]

Y'know, unless Bigbudman offers some more details on the kind of data he needs to convert into coordinates (more detail than "hard to find on foot" ), the rest of us are just guessing what would work best.

 

I'd guess he already HAS a GPS because he's logged some GC finds. If it is a DeLorme, then DeLorme's software is a natural for this activity -- and as Cowboy said, it came with the package. BUT... if he has a Garmin of any recent line -- then all of the OTHER software options suggested here so far could be viable. And certainly more economical than buying another GPS or software package.

Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Y'know, unless Bigbudman offers some more details on the kind of data he needs to convert into coordinates (more detail than "hard to find on foot" ), the rest of us are just guessing what would work best.

 

I'd guess he already HAS a GPS because he's logged some GC finds. If it is a DeLorme, then DeLorme's software is a natural for this activity -- and as Cowboy said, it came with the package. BUT... if he has a Garmin of any recent line -- then all of the OTHER software options suggested here so far could be viable. And certainly more economical than buying another GPS or software package.

Well, again, here is his quote:

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme.

 

He has an Etrex and might upgrade to a DeLorme model.

[seldom_sn]

Y'know, unless Bigbudman offers some more details on the kind of data he needs to convert into coordinates (more detail than "hard to find on foot" ), the rest of us are just guessing what would work best.

 

I'd guess he already HAS a GPS because he's logged some GC finds. If it is a DeLorme, then DeLorme's software is a natural for this activity -- and as Cowboy said, it came with the package. BUT... if he has a Garmin of any recent line -- then all of the OTHER software options suggested here so far could be viable. And certainly more economical than buying another GPS or software package.

Well, again, here is his quote:

Hi,

I have a Etrex H, but I think its going back to trade up for the Delorme.

 

He has an Etrex and might upgrade to a DeLorme model.

 

I just fired up my old TopoUSA6 and tried the line drawing using distance and bearing. It accepts surveyor's bearings, so I'd vote for the Delorme if this is the only thing he wants it for and he can locate his starting points. Of course if the OP wants to make homemade vector maps I'd suggest the G word.

[+user13371]

He has an Etrex H and might upgrade to a DeLorme model.

Ah, thanks -- I did miss post 7. I have that problem in noisy rooms sometimes, too.

 

Since he MIGHT upgrade to a DeLorme (doesn't have one yet), he MIGHT also upgrade to a different Garmin.

 

Either might be able to do what he wants -- what's best would still depend on those exact needs, budget, etc. Consider also the likelihood that he's gonna find something ELSE he wants to use the GPS for later. Bet this real estate mapping thing wasn't in mind when he got the eTrex H.

[+user13371]

(duplicate post) - dang, that's happened almost every time I hit send today.

Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

(TRIPLICATE post) - that's a new on one me!

Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

... I dont know how i will transfer deed coord, other than waypoint mark physical landmarks and use them as a reference. It wont be exact, but... once we have a buyer, I'll have them surveyed. Any thoughts?

Yup, now that I've gone back and read that... Thoughts: 1) Survey will be needed no matter what handheld GPS you get; consumer-grade units are not surveyor's units. 2) Can you give an example of what some of these deed coords look like? Edited June 13, 2010 by lee_rimar

[Grasscatcher]

However the tracks are described on the old deed maps,the distances and bearings could be projected and plotted in ExpertGPS and then the coordinates picked off the map for those "theoretical" prelimary corners.

 

I've done it from old mining claim plats and walked right to the corner markers and that was very steep mountainous terrain.

 

But, hey!, you guys are missing the most important item.....what Delorme product could POSSIBLY be an upgrade from an e-trex.....??? Ha!! Gotcha!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Bet this real estate mapping thing wasn't in mind when he got the eTrex H.

This, Lee, I fully understand.

I had no thought of a handheld GPSr when I first bought Topo USA 6.0 for making and printing to bring with on 4WD trips.

Prior to that, there was always someone on our trips that had a G word or M word model, anyway.

They had to be used in conjunction with a paper map and I decided that I did not need another to toss in the mix.

 

However, having used Topo 6 for a while and seeing that some models could now host maps, I started to consider some.

When the PN-20 came out, as I already was past the Topo 6's learning curve, it seemed to be ideal for me.

[seldom_sn]

... I dont know how i will transfer deed coord, other than waypoint mark physical landmarks and use them as a reference. It wont be exact, but... once we have a buyer, I'll have them surveyed. Any thoughts?

Yup, now that I've gone back and read that... Thoughts: 1) Survey will be needed no matter what handheld GPS you get; consumer-grade units are not surveyor's units. 2) Can you give an example of what some of these deed coords look like?

 

North 15D E 1000 feet to a point, thence N 75 D W 1000 feet to a point, thence South 15 D W 1000 feet to a point, thence S 15 D E 1000 feet to the point of beginning.

 

If I did that right, it should describe a square 1000 feet on a side tilted 15 degrees east of north.

 

Regarding survey quality instruments, he shouldn't need need survey quality instruments to draw the boundaries. But if he wants a survey, he needs to hire a surveyor.

Edited June 14, 2010 by seldom_sn

[+user13371]

But you didn't describe the starting point, right? The drawing part is easy. I thought Bud's original problem was finding the starting points that were hard to reach on foot.

 

Re: Survey - wouldn't that be required to confirm the boundaries regardless, prior to any sale?

Edited June 14, 2010 by lee_rimar

[Grasscatcher]

He said "tracts" were hard to find on foot.

 

At least one reference point would have to be legally described on the deed map.

 

From that one point , the remaining points for however many tracts could easily be projected and plotted (in EGPS) in a matter of minutes. which would create waypoints at each corner.

 

Then all you're doing is looking for specific point coordinates which could be done with even a B&W "Pre map" GPS.

 

He said that he was just looking to establish rough property boundaries and planned to have a legal survey done at sale.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Grasscatcher

[+Team CowboyPapa]

(TRIPLICATE post) - that's a new on one me!

Hey, Lee,

 

to save my self some embarrasment when I did that,

I split the post in chunks and ended one with "....continued below.."

and the other with "...continuation from above...", or some such.

Did that fool anybody?

[+user13371]

Grasscatcher, you said something I had already thought but didn't bring up. If all you need is coords and track lines, a mapping GPS is a convenience rather than a necessity.

 

As for projecting and plotting "in EGPS in a matter of minutes" -- at least for the canted square example seldom_sn gave -- I can do the same thing free hand in Google Earth just as quickly. Really, I just tried it to make sure I remembered how. It came out like this:

<kml>
<Document>
<Placemark>
<name>Example</name>
<Style>
<LineStyle><color>ff00ffff</color></LineStyle>
<PolyStyle><fill>0</fill></PolyStyle>
</Style>
<Polygon>
<tessellate>1</tessellate>
<outerBoundaryIs>
<LinearRing>
<coordinates>
-71.448266445225,41.65710599816364,0 
-71.44734036672858,41.65971161702716,0 
-71.4508744099266,41.66044318185883,0 
-71.45181033509229,41.65780615573969,0 
-71.448266445225,41.65710599816364,0
</coordinates>
</LinearRing>
</outerBoundaryIs>
</Polygon>
</Placemark>
</Document>
</kml>

The SW corner was chosen arbitrarily. You can save it as a KML file and open in Google Earth if you want to see what it looks like.

Edited June 14, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

North 15D E 1000 feet to a point, thence N 75 D W 1000 feet to a point, thence South 15 D W 1000 feet to a point, thence S 15 D E 1000 feet to the point of beginning.

 

If I did that right, it should describe a square 1000 feet on a side tilted 15 degrees east of north.

 

Exactly, and once one of the corners has been spotted on Topo USA 8.0, the drawing of that square with the polygon tool is about a one minute task as the tool shows bearing and leg length as one drags the mouse.

[+user13371]

Did that fool anybody?

Nah, I just figured you were rambling or forgot your place. I do it myself all the time. Edited June 14, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

Okay, so we've all opined that the act of drawing is the work of minutes with any of several suggested tools. How do you find the starting point?

[Grasscatcher]

Lee,

Yep, IMHO they(maps) are just pure convenience, but the new units also have additional goodies.

 

Starting point.... As I said above, on the old deed plat there will have to be at least one legally described reference point. Even a surveyor would have to have that.

 

On finding several mining claims , I've started at a referenced section corner, on one at an old rock cairn, on another, I lucked into finding one of the original 4X4 posts and took coordinates to start from by comparing to plat and determining which corner it was on the plat.

[Grasscatcher]

If the starting point is referenced from a USGS section corner or quarter corner or similar, there will generally be a database with accurate coordinates available where you don't have to physically visit the spot.

 

I don't know about RI, but here in Colorado I use the BLM Cadastral Survey database.

[+user13371]

So really, Grasscatcher -- the problem as originally stated isn't that difficult (except to someone who hasn't approached it before). And with so many good hardware and software choices, the OP's needn't limit his research to one particular brand?

 

We're back to the original questions that start all WSIB battles -- what ELSE do you want to do with it, and what's your budget?

Edited June 14, 2010 by lee_rimar

[39_Steps]

Lee-

Would you please confirm that Survey description for my copy of Topo8?

[Grasscatcher]

The original problem as stated, is not a problem. The OP could send the old deed map to someone with software that can project waypoints accurately, or learn to do it himself on Google Earth as you did, take the coordinates and then go find the points with any old, even borrowed GPS, and stick a stick in the ground or make piles of rocks at the locations.

 

"what ELSE do you want to do with it, and what's your budget? " THAT is the big question! (But you still don't need no stinkin' maps or aerial photos...Ha !)

[+Team CowboyPapa]

"what ELSE do you want to do with it, and what's your budget? " THAT is the big question! (But you still don't need no stinkin' maps or aerial photos...Ha !)

Actually, what has been overlooked is from the first post:

I'm a realtor that sells big tracts of land.

 

Got it now?

He is a big time realtor and all his gizmos like the Caddies and Benzes that realtors drive are tax deductible.

The budget of a PN-40 is squat and just a little chunklet of what he will eventually pay the professional surveyor, which are also tax deductible. 10-4?

So, go back and look at that multimillion dollar piece of commercial property that I outlined on my DeLorme provided aerial photo imagery, all 10.88 acres. Now he is going to worry about the cost of a PN-40 as he works on a sales contract? Sheesh! It's like a flyspeck on the offer sheet.

 

And you disdain the photo imagery? Anybody seen a real estate ad, brochure, anything without a photo?

Wanna' double check me? Gotta' Sunday paper with a real estate section still handy? Any photos there? Sheesh?

Real estate marketing without photos? How absurd!

 

So, we all get mired down in the minutiae and lose track of the BIG PICTURE, yes the BIG PICTURE.

And that is the WOW factor of showing the big time property investors the aerial photo imagery as a sales tool.

 

OK, folks, enough of the BIG TIME REAL ESTATE REALITY of REALTORS and back to muddle and wallow in the minutiae.