Straight Skinny on the PN20

[Dark*Star]

I've been told at a sales counter that it is junk but it does have a great preloaded map package. I have also read here that the PN20 has an extremely slow refresh/redraw rate.

 

Is the PN20 an all around bad product or just slow? How much slower? Seconds, minutes, days?

 

Is it fair to say that for its geocahing features and preloaded maps it's good/OK for under $200?

 

Is it that slow that using it occasionally for point to point in the car is useles?

 

I don't want to throw money away or have to purchase a map package to get started. I also don't think I am going out on a limb guessing that it will be a huge step up from the late 90's Magellan Color Trak I have.

[+ZSandmann]

I have heard if you want to get a DeLorme buy the 40 and you will be very happy. I know a few cachers with the 20 that like it, but don't love it. I know one that has the 40 that loves it and is just waiting for the firmware upgrade and cache register program. Afraid I have no specifics on functions, only word of mouth.

[+twolpert]

I own a -40, not a -20 (along with a Colorado 400t). From what I see on the Delorme forums, the -20 has substantially lower redraw speeds. In fact, the major difference between the -20 and the -40 is the addition of a second processor core which is dedicated mostly to doing screen refresh. That said, I don't think that anybody found it to be a deal-killer with regard to caching on foot. I think it might be more of an issue if you also use road routing to get to the cache. You might want to see this post on the Delorme forums. It's the first one I ran across that seems relevant:

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=...n20+pn40+redraw

 

You might also post over there, in either the PN-40 or PN-20 forums, to get other opinions.

 

A couple of things to be aware of with either the -20 or the -40. The "bundled" cartography is Topo 7. This contains 1:100K topos and routable street data for the US. No (topo) catrography or imagery is available outside of the US. The only thing that is actually preloaded is a very high-level base map. You will need to load T7 maps onto the SD card in the unit. You would need a 32GB card to load everything for the US at the same time. Most people load only a regional subset for the areas they travel in. This is easily done with the 3 pre-cut DVDs that come with the unit. (I know they come with the -40, and I believe they now come with the -20 as well.)

 

Additional imagery is available for download, but is not bundled with the unit. This includes B&W aerial, color aerial, color satellite 10-meter, and 1:24K USGS topos. The unit comes with (again, the -40 and probably the -20) a certificate for $30 or $40 worth of imagery. The real bargain is the $30/year subscription that allows you to download and keep all the imagery you can eat. The process of downloading and using the imagery is somewhat painful, but the results are worth the effort.

 

Both the -20 and -40 are paperless, but with restrictions. Caches show up as waypoints. The description, hint, and logs are bundled up into the comments field for the waypoint, which has an 800-character limit. This is enough for most caches, although you don't often get many logs. It can be a problem for caches with long-winded descriptions, complicated multi-s, and almost all earth caches. There is an upcoming firmware release which will eliminate the limits and make it much easier to go paperless. As I understand it, the initial target is the PN-40, followed at some later time by the PN-20.

 

Also, you must use the T7 software to transfer caches to the device (unless you just enter coordinates by hand). This is not a huge issue except that T7 is Windows-only. As a follow-on to the upcoming firmware release, there will be a utility program called "Cache Register" (two-thirds of a pun, anyhow) which will transfer cache data and which is supposed to run on the Mac as well as on Windows. There will also be single-cache support via a "Send to Delorme" button on gc.com.

 

PN-40 owners have been eagerly waiting for this stuff since the holidays. The firmware is in beta, as is the Send to Delorme widget. Cache Register seems to be lagging behind. Full support for the enhanced GC features in Topo USA will not be provided until some unspecified future release of the Topo product.

 

Edited to add: This post is also relevent, and contains information from Delorme staff on PN-20 and PN-40 auto-routing:

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=...n20+pn40+redraw

Edited January 30, 2009 by twolpert

[+peto_geo]

Without a doubt, I Love my PN-20. Screen refreshes are fast enough for me. A lot of the refresh rate problem is overblown (perception). If you use the PN-20 for hiking, biking or caching it will work great. Even in a car with Topo Quads in the background it keeps up at a pretty good clip. The main problem (not a big deal with me) is the PN-20 is extremely slow in calculating a road route.

 

Screen is a little small but outstanding and crisp in the direct sunlight.

Button and menu configuration is very easy to learn.

Unit is very tough (I've dropped it while biking and caching several times).

Can be found online from $150 - $199

Floats with Lithium batteries installed.

Waterproof (I've dunked it while canoeing).

Buttons are easy to operate while biking (in a mount)

Great reception and retention under canopy.

Tracks are very accurate (unless stuffed deap in pocket upside down)

Geocaching with it is great and only getting better (new firmware release in future)

Can make as many draw layers (found caches, trails, wypnts, etc.) as you want and put them onto PN-20.

 

Topo 7.0 is great but I also bought Xmap 6.0 for making my own maps. Awesome combination.

[+fratermus]

I've been told at a sales counter that it is junk but it does have a great preloaded map package.

 

I wouldn't believe a word a salescritter uttered, ever, whether positive or negative.

[+RRLover]

I've been told at a sales counter that it is junk but it does have a great preloaded map package.

Let me guess; Sportsman's Warehouse in Federal Way, WA?

 

Norm

[+Hrethgir]

I originally bought a PN-20 as a way of trying it out to see how I liked DeLormes when I heard about the PN-40 coming out. I can say that while the redraw speeds of the PN-20 are low, it is FAR from junk. The slow processor makes it not so good for navigation in a car, as it has trouble keeping up, but for geocaching or anything at walking speeds, it works fine, even with imagery. I never had a mount for it, so I'm not sure how well it works on a bicycle, though. But I did sell mine a few weeks after buying it so I could put that money towards a PN-40. It wasn't that I didn't like the PN-20, mind you, but I liked it enough that I was glad to see the flaws were addressed and wanted to move up immediately. Now, if all I was going to do was geocache with it, I might have kept it, but with faster redraw speeds of the PN-40, I wanted to use it for navigation on my motorcycle, and the PN-20 wouldn't work so well for that. But still, PN-20 != junk by any means! I got the refurb one from www.tigergps.com for a great price, look into that if you want to get one.

[+Momof4under10]

I'm a newbie but I like my 20 and have used it several times on the road testing its redraw capabilities. Road to road seemed fine. It was able to redraw with plenty of time going 65 miles per hour down the interstate. I think it would handle fine at any speed at or below that. If going faster you might have an issue. I like the poi capabilities as well as the paperless geocaching. I've been able to edit my cache comments in TOPO 7 reducing all the fluff and retaining the important details before I sent it to my GPS. I havn't had any troubles with the 800 character limit so far and I've loaded over 200 cache's onto my unit (getting psyched up for spring). If you are on a budget like I am you will be happy with the 20. If you have plenty to spend go for the 40. From everything I've read you'll like the extras. Good Luck happy hunting.

[+Team DeLorme]

This is Caleb from Team DeLorme. It's funny but as the price of the PN-20 continues to drop (it's now below $200) the satisfaction ratings keep going up. This really makes good sense as everyone applies a value judgment based on what they pay. So, we did hear more issues about speed when the price was $399.95 than we do now that it is $199.95. I think many of the DeLorme people on this forum who own both a 20 and 40 will agree this is what they have seen. It is rare to find a recent review on amazon or walmart.com that complains about the speed of the PN-20. Yes, the PN-40 is considerably faster and has more bells and whistles, but I was always quite happy with my PN-20 before the PN-40 came along. I hope this helps.

[+Klemmer]

I own both a PN-20 and a PN-40. I loved my PN-20, but when the PN-40 came out, I loved it even more! If maps are important to you, there are no better choices. The PN-20 was plenty fast enough for hiking or biking. The PN-40 is better, if you can afford it. At $199, the PN-20 is a steal. Remember, it comes with Topos for the while US. Other companies charge about $100 for that.

[+Woodstramp]

Those Delorme units sound interesting to me. I've been looking at Youtube videos about PN40/PN20 lately. What I see looks good so far. I like the way the map software looks.

 

I have three main questions about the units.

 

Noticed that they take standard batteries. How long does a set last?

 

Also, if you have the unit on the dash while on a road trip does these have a car charge cable to save the batteries?

 

Last one...can you shoot a GC.com cache PQ .zip file straight into the unit without having to use anything like GSAK, EasyGPS and the like?

 

These questions apply to the 40 and the 20. Thanks.

[Jumester]

Those Delorme units sound interesting to me. I've been looking at Youtube videos about PN40/PN20 lately. What I see looks good so far. I like the way the map software looks.

 

I have three main questions about the units.

 

Noticed that they take standard batteries. How long does a set last?

The delorme forums have an extensive battery test thread that will better answer your question. A general consensus seems to be that energizer lithiums give the best life of around 10-12 hours, followed by duracell 2750 nimh rechargeables at around 8 hours, I don't recall alkalines life, but seem to recall that the optional li-on battery was in the 5-6 hour range. These are all from memory so no guarantee. I personally favor the eneloop rechargeables and the duracell 2750's. As you can see they are battery hogs but I carry spares and it has never been a problem.

 

Also, if you have the unit on the dash while on a road trip does these have a car charge cable to save the batteries?

Yes, as long as you have a usb power adapter for your car, as the supplied cable has a usb connector for computer power. It will also charge the optional li-on battery

 

Last one...can you shoot a GC.com cache PQ .zip file straight into the unit without having to use anything like GSAK, EasyGPS and the like?

 

These questions apply to the 40 and the 20. Thanks.

I believe this will all be addressed in the upcoming geocache update from delorme.

[+twolpert]

Those Delorme units sound interesting to me. I've been looking at Youtube videos about PN40/PN20 lately. What I see looks good so far. I like the way the map software looks.

 

I have three main questions about the units.

 

Noticed that they take standard batteries. How long does a set last?

 

Also, if you have the unit on the dash while on a road trip does these have a car charge cable to save the batteries?

 

Last one...can you shoot a GC.com cache PQ .zip file straight into the unit without having to use anything like GSAK, EasyGPS and the like?

 

These questions apply to the 40 and the 20. Thanks.

See the following post on the Delorme forums for some battery life info for the -40. I suspect battery life on the -20 will be somewhat better. The concensus seems to be that NiMH rechargeables give the best service. Battery life with Alkaline disposables is poor, at least on the 40. Note that a lot of these are static tests, which aren't very realistic. Expect lower lifetimes in the field. As always, YMMV.

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16728

 

Delorme has an extra-cost travel kit that includes a low-capacity (1300 mAh) Lithium-Ion battery that can be charged in the unit when powered from your vehicle.

 

In order to transfer .gpx files to either unit, you must use the Topo 7 software which comes with the unit. You import the .gpx into T7, then export it to the unit. With an upcoming firmware update and a new plug-in from gc.com, you will be able to send one cache a time directly to the unit (like the "Send to Garmin" button currently available). Delorme has also announced a new stand-alone "Cache Register" program (hate that name) which will allow you to send .gpx files directly to the unit. No idea when that will become available. I have also seen posts that somebody is working on direct downloads via GSAK, but haven't seen anything recently. If it matters to you, T7 runs only on Windows -- not on the Mac. Cache Register supposedly will work on both. Bottom line: Nothing even remotely as nice as dropping the .gpx file directly onto the unit as you can do with both the Colorado and Oregon.

 

Edited to add: I see somebody else mentioned Lithium disposables. They do give good service, but they're pricey and add to landfill eventually.

Edited February 1, 2009 by twolpert

[+Woodstramp]

Thank you both for the info.

 

The more I hear about the Delorme units the more it makes me want to come off the wallet. The map stuff looks real good from what I've seen in the videos online. I'm leaning toward the PN-20.