No Trespassing - Lock In A Spot!?

[+infiniteMPG]

There is a new development being built nearby my home that is in a pretty neat location with some trees and a pretty large lake. The new road for this is being cut between two larger roads and from one of the roads there is no signs to keep out or no trespassing or anything, but from the other road there is. You can see from the construction what area is going to remain pretty natural around the lake. My question is can I hide a cache in here, post it but list it as inactive and just sit on it until the construction is done before I activate it??? Kind of a squatter's rights sort of thing. I don't mind going in via mountain bike from the road without signs and have done so several times just checking out the area and if someone said something it's easy to play dumb and leave, but I could make the hide pretty easily.

 

Is it okay to practice squatter's rights with a cache location? Or could I even just waymark a spot and list it without even hiding something there until the construction is done?

 

JUst curious if anyone else has done this and what the outcome was....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Doesn't sound like much of a plan to me.

 

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think there is any such thing as "squatters rights"... it's just a euphemism for illegal occupation of someone else's property.

[CoyoteRed]

Is it okay to practice squatter's rights with a cache location?

Only if you want to tick a few folks off.

[Keystone]

It's fine to reserve a spot for a short time while you finish working on the details of your cache, like getting permission from the landowner.

 

So, when will this construction be finished? Three weeks? Sure, set up the page. Ten months? That wouldn't be fair to the other guy who has a cache ready to go, but 500 feet away and outside of the area you described.

[+TeamGumbo]

Not sure about everywhere, but I think trespassing in a construction area in Florida is a felony.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Not sure about everywhere, but I think trespassing in a construction area in Florida is a felony.

And it is also true that in most states in the USA, it is illegal to enter construction sites, fenced areas, cultivated farm fields, farm buildings and private residences without explicit permission even if/when they are NOT explicitly posted with signs, and in fact, such signs would be considered to be superfluous in most cases, due to existence of strong laws in this regard.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Is it okay to practice squatter's rights with a cache location?...

 

Typically this is adverse posession. If the public has been accessing the location using that trail for as long as anyone can remember there is a right to use that access. However someone has to fight to make it real. That takes a court case. Yes you are right to use the spot and the access. However if you are unwilling to fight for the public right, you can lose the spot and the cache and not be any worse off.

 

Geocaching as a whole doesn't really understand that adverse posession applies to public access. Like fair use, it's hard to gage until a court says you were doing the right thing.

 

If you really want to protect the spot you are best served by hooking up with a larger public group to show your intest to the developer for them to dedicate it to the public and failing that fund the court battle. A lot of developers see nice spots as selling points well worth preserving as it helps them sell real estate. Sometimes there is no battle.

Edited March 24, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

...Is it okay to practice squatter's rights with a cache location? Or could I even just waymark a spot and list it without even hiding something there until the construction is done? ...

 

Well now I just did a good Gilda Radner with that last post.

 

The answer to your question is "yes" you can place the cache and hit the list switch when construction is done. However if you can access the spot via boat for the moment the cache is viable and could be listed now. If you place and wait...someone else can rightfully ace you on the spot. It's a risk that you run.

 

Keystone outlined the limits of actually squatting to reserve the spot.

[+infiniteMPG]

It's fine to reserve a spot for a short time while you finish working on the details of your cache, like getting permission from the landowner.

Not exactly sure the time frame and this is still purely hypothetical, just something I thought about as I was checking the spot out. As I said, the way I entered had nothing posted so I wasn't worried about being there.

 

So, when will this construction be finished? Three weeks? Sure, set up the page. Ten months? That wouldn't be fair to the other guy who has a cache ready to go, but 500 feet away and outside of the area you described.

There is no area within 500-feet of the spot that would be outside the area, this is a pretty big land development. I have an "inside resource" to the plan so I know what is going to be left as conservation area and never developed. That is the type spot I was looking at.

[+infiniteMPG]

Not sure about everywhere, but I think trespassing in a construction area in Florida is a felony.

According to Florida legal code 810.09 which states :

 

"The offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if the property trespassed is a construction site that is legally posted and identified in substantially the following manner: "THIS AREA IS A DESIGNATED CONSTRUCTION SITE, AND ANYONE WHO TRESPASSES ON THIS PROPERTY COMMITS A FELONY."

 

Meaning the site has to have the information clearly posted for that to stick. As stated above, there is no signs at all at the one entrance.

[+infiniteMPG]

Only if you want to tick a few folks off.

Why would anyone get upset about it? I live right next to the site so the second it was open to the public I could be there placing the cache. Would that tick the same people off?

 

Just asking the question if that is an acceptable practice, I already know it ticks people off when you beat them to a cool spot to place a cache

 

So I guess that means that not checking the "Yes, this listing is active (For new listings, if you want to work on this listing before it is reviewed, uncheck this box. Reviewers will only see the listing in the queue when it is checked.) " box means that for all practical purposes, you didn't hide anything. Does having a cache entered but not in the queue reserve the coords????

Edited March 24, 2008 by infiniteMPG

[+TeamGumbo]

 

Meaning the site has to have the information clearly posted for that to stick. As stated above, there is no signs at all at the one entrance.

 

It doesn't say "clearly" posted, it says "legally" posted...meaning it probably has to be posted in the area of the building permit.

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops, just letting you know that these construction areas are looked at a little differently these days (terror! terror! terror!), and I'm guessing they won't care which entrance you used.

 

Good luck in securing that area for a cache, though, it sounds nice.

[+infiniteMPG]

It doesn't say "clearly" posted, it says "legally" posted...meaning it probably has to be posted in the area of the building permit.

The tract of land is about 1-1/2 miles long and 1/2 mile wide so we're talking a big section of land and a big devlopment. Not talking just clearing a corner for a strip mall.

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops, just letting you know that these construction areas are looked at a little differently these days (terror! terror! terror!), and I'm guessing they won't care which entrance you used.

Hehehehe... no bust taken and I understand. If I get SWAT called down on me for pedalling my ol' beat up Cannondale down a dirt path soon to be a road in the middle of nothing then I think Homeland Security would be proud.

 

Good luck in securing that area for a cache, though, it sounds nice.

It is nice and I would of preferred it remained undevloped (but it used to be barbed wire fenced off land which is gone with the new devlopment). Gonna just squat on the spot from a distance and pounce when the pavement is laid.

[Clan Riffster]

I'd say, "Go for it!" I've done something similar with a Volusia County plot of land that has a natural spring in it. The county is turning it into a public park. I got a county employee to nab the coords for the spring, and I used these in writing up an inactive cache page. Once Green Springs becomes open to the public, I'll hide my cache, update the coords with the correct location and click the magic box.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Just curious if anyone else has done this and what the outcome was....

 

It's important to look at intent here. From one direction they didn't put up any signs, but near the construction, they put up a sign. Probably has more to do with insurance than not wanting anyone there. If there are no signs from the other direction, I'd say you are NOT trespassing.

 

I'd say go for it also!

Edited March 24, 2008 by ReadyOrNot

[Motorcycle_Mama]

My question would be "Is this private property?"

[+Arndtwe]

There is a new development being built nearby my home that is in a pretty neat location with some trees and a pretty large lake. The new road for this is being cut between two larger roads and from one of the roads there is no signs to keep out or no trespassing or anything, but from the other road there is. You can see from the construction what area is going to remain pretty natural around the lake. My question is can I hide a cache in here, post it but list it as inactive and just sit on it until the construction is done before I activate it??? Kind of a squatter's rights sort of thing. I don't mind going in via mountain bike from the road without signs and have done so several times just checking out the area and if someone said something it's easy to play dumb and leave, but I could make the hide pretty easily.

 

Is it okay to practice squatter's rights with a cache location? Or could I even just waymark a spot and list it without even hiding something there until the construction is done?

 

JUst curious if anyone else has done this and what the outcome was....

If I were in your situation, I would go to Geocaching.com and click the "submit a cache" link. From here you can type up a description, put in the coordinates, name it, choose it's size and difficulty, put in your hints and such. Then when you are done editing the page, just un-check the box that says "Yes, this listing is active (For new listings, if you want to work on this listing before it is reviewed, uncheck this box. Reviewers will only see the listing in the queue when it is checked.)" that way it will not go in for review. When the construction is done, go to your account and select the cache you made, then select it to go into review.

[+PhxChem]

It is nice and I would of preferred it remained undevloped

 

I wonder if someone wanted the area your house sits to remain undeveloped?

 

Seems to be a common gripe here in AZ....where building houses IS the economy. Everyone laments that they have to spoil land to build houses. But....you know.....everyone who says that lives in....you know, a house.

 

Although I am almost just as bad....now I have MY piece of the pie....close it up!! No more development.

 

I'm also from out of state....they hate us here, too!!

 

Oh yeah, topic.....I wonder. If you build a cache page and don't enable it. Can someone else get a cache approved at the same coordinates?

[CoyoteRed]

Only if you want to tick a few folks off.

Why would anyone get upset about it?

I probably should have expanded my thought a bit more. I've seen where folks have not cared for folks who reserve a space for whatever reason. At issue is the amount of time the spot is reserved for and how it is done. I wonder how many times a spot has been held in reserve only to see no cache develop while another cacher could have moved forward.

 

A lot of times folks will not check with a reviewer to see if a location is open for a placement. I'm kind of thinking the reviewers wouldn't want that to become routine, either. "What about this spot? What about this spot? What about this spot?" A reviewers nightmare? Also the topic for a different thread.

 

You don't want to reserve a spot with a micro. First, micro in the woods? Nah. Second, you gonna upgrade later? Hope you don't do like folks used to do with virts where they'd "reserve" a spot or think "this is spot would be nice for a cache. I'll put a virtual cache here for now and upgrade later." Only that upgrade never comes about.

 

I've read threads here where folks have planned and planned a cache in a particular spot only have someone else come along an plop down some "lesser" cache blocking it. It's first come, first serve.

 

My suggestion is to go ahead and secure permission for the cache. Maybe theme it around the preservation of woodlands within encroaching development and how developers are seeing the value of greenspace. Go ahead and make it the cache you want. Let folks know what is going on.

 

If you can't secure permission for cachers to visit the area while construction is ongoing, then do like Keystone suggested. I'd get a more firm answer on the when the area would be available and post it in the description or reviewer notes. Also, unless things have changed you have to alert your reviewer of the cache page by making it ACTIVE so they will know about the future cache placement, permission issues, when the area will be available for placements. I've done this in the past and my reviewer would put "HOLD" in the title so she'd know what's going on in a glance. Procedures could be different nowadays, though.

 

I think my concerns can be summed up more succinctly in "don't leave the placement open ended." Either place the cache or have a firm date when it will be placed. If you can't get the cache placed at that time then the area opens up to others. That would sit better with those who want to put a cache there, and are willing and able to do so.

[+infiniteMPG]

My question would be "Is this private property?"

Part of the county requests for large sites is to leave part of the land as a "conservation area" open to the public. The development usually owns the property but are requested to leave this part fully open and posted accessible for public use as a conservation area.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

So, it's private property. In that case, I would think that you would need to secure permission from the actual property owner.

[+Pat in Louisiana]

Not sure about everywhere, but I think trespassing in a construction area in Florida is a felony.

I'm not sure if it is a felony here but I do know if you get your truck stuck in the mud and hot wire a front end loader to get your truck out they frown on it :-)

[+TeamGumbo]

I'm not sure if it is a felony here but I do know if you get your truck stuck in the mud and hot wire a front end loader to get your truck out they frown on it :-)

 

It's like there's a law against EVERYthing.

 

[Clan Riffster]

I do know if you get your truck stuck in the mud and hot wire a front end loader to get your truck out they frown on it :-)

Change the location to Georgia and the front end loader to someone's tractor, and I've gotta plead "No Contest".