Kitsap County Thomas Guide or Roadrunner Challenge

1.7k · January 21, 2008

I am starting this topic because I don't want to steal the King County Thomas Guide discussion. First of all I don't want to take over the respondsability of handling this

challenge. We travel a lot and I am not computer savy enough to do things the easy way.

In the King County topic I suggested that Hawk might be interested in doing so. I also suggested the Roadrunner Atlas. It is laid out well and is what I used before I got a routing GPS. It does not give Latitude and Longitude. I am not familiar with the Thomas atlas but they do have one for Kitsap County. I see Amazon.com has the atlas. Not sure if

Costco has it or not. Are you interested Hawk?

1.7k · January 21, 2008

Categories

A Good Map Company, formerly Road Runner Maps, produces Street Atlases for the following counties in the Puget Sound Area and Western Washington State: Kitsap County Street Atlas, Jefferson County & Clallam County Street Atlas, Grays Harbor County Street Atlas, Mason County Street Atlas, Thurston County Street Atlas, and Lewis County Street Atlas.

The Kitsap County Library, just down the street from me, is closed today, I will go down tomorrow and look at the two atlas.

1.7k · January 21, 2008

Seems like I am talking to myself. I just noticed the pages on my 2002 Roadrunner Map of Kitsap County overlap. So I guess that would

be difficult to work with. Otherwise a cache could count for two pages or more.

January 22, 2008

I would be interested in this challenge.

If it happens, I see some fun weekends for Rickie and I :unsure:

1.7k · January 22, 2008

Thank you, I hope someone will take the ball and run with it. It would be nice to have a challenge that doesn't require a half day of driving. Today we had planned on going to Bellingham to get a active cache in Whatcom County. Weather report didn't look good for us, so thought we would go east of Startup and finish off page 47 in the new

Delorne Challenge. Freezing cold and high winds didn't seem too good of idea so will wait until the wx is better. I get cabin fever this time of the year. dick

Edited January 22, 2008 by W7WT

January 22, 2008

Sorry you had to feel you were talking to yourself Dick. I spent the day commuting to Kansas City for work, and am just now getting to email, forums etc.

I love the idea of having a Kitsap County challenge in place. I am lost, thinking of what all it would entail to get it up and running, ie. polygons, filters, etc. If I had a better understanding of how all that works, I would be more apt to jump right in, but I don't. If someone wanted to work with me on it, then I certainly would be interested!

6.4k · January 22, 2008

"That said, I was a lottle suprized to see Vashon Island. I guess its been a while since I have closely looked at the map boundries out there."

WE went to Vaon Island and it cost us pretty near $30.00. It would be even More, now.

Yes, A Kitsap County one Would be nice. (maybe Seabeck Tribe?)

1.7k · January 22, 2008

Thanks Hawk, We have plenty of time to think about this. I ran a PQ of my finds with a 15 mile radius of Silverdale and got all of them. I then exported from GSAK to MS S&T. Kitsap County certainly isn't square like they are back in KS or MO. I think it could be kept simple

like the WA County Challenge. I will try to look for a Thomas Guide today and see what it looks like. I have the Roadrunner but the pages overlap and it doesn't have GPS coordinates.

Fairhoney, yes it cost to go to Vashon Island. Bainbridge is part of Kitsap County. Yes, I thought of the Seabeck Tribe, also the Shop99ers, but both are so busy already with events. There are just a few of us on the forums, so it may be hard to hear from the masses.

I am willing to work with you Hawk if you are willing to take the Helm.

Dick

1.7k · January 22, 2008

Along the lines of keeping it simple, it would be nice to have it available for all cachers. Not everyone is a PM or has GSAK. The Roadrunner has 46 pages and has a master page with all the pages on it. Not sure what the Thomas Guide has.

1.7k · January 22, 2008

Looks like most of the maps of Kitsap County leave out Blake Island which is part of Kitsap County. There are caches there but would hard for some to get there. Should we require cachers to find those caches or just act like it's not there?

Edited January 22, 2008 by W7WT

January 23, 2008

Looks like most of the maps of Kitsap County leave out Blake Island which is part of Kitsap County. There are caches there but would hard for some to get there. Should we require cachers to find those caches or just act like it's not there?

Just got back to my hotel...long working days here. 14 hours today. All caches on Blake Island were required to be archived and the containers removed from the island, quite some time ago, so that is not an issue.

I will have to do some research on this when I get home. I haven't even seen a road runner, or even a thomas guide.

1.7k · January 23, 2008

I have ordered the Thomas Atlas for Kitsap County from Amazon.com today. Not sure when it will arrive. I went to the library and couldn't find a copy of it. They did have the King County one and some Roadrunner Atlas. We will have to decide what year would be used. The 2000 Roadrunner Atlas has different areas from the 2006 that I got at the library. Sure would be nice to find one with GPS coordinates like the Delorne. The road runner pages overlap but I think we could have a rule saying a cache showing on two or more pages can be used for any of the pages but only on one. If you can convince Ruck to work with you, I think that would be best. My only concern is that it be kept simple and any cacher will be able to do it. I like the way you think, I just don't want someone to set it up

with a lot of restrictions. Rest up and don't concern yourself about it until you get back in Kitsap County. Dick

6.4k · January 23, 2008

Can we leave Blake Island off the requirements. Most of us Don't have a boat And the only other way is from Seattle. I know it shouldn't be an excuse but there you have it

6.4k · January 23, 2008

"The road runner pages overlap but I think we could have a rule saying a cache showing on two or more pages can be used for any of the pages but only on one."

Sounds good .

1.7k · January 23, 2008

Can we leave Blake Island off the requirements. Most of us Don't have a boat And the only other way is from Seattle. I know it shouldn't be an excuse but there you have it

As Hawk pointed out, all of the cache on Blake Island were removed, and it sounds like

there will be no more. Ajetpilot and I took my boat from Manchester and had a very enjoyable day finding all the caches there a few years back. Because of a shoulder injury I have since sold my boat. Yes, I agree Blake Island should be left out and besides it not on any of the pages. Thank you dick

January 23, 2008

Can we leave Blake Island off the requirements. Most of us Don't have a boat And the only other way is from Seattle. I know it shouldn't be an excuse but there you have it

As Hawk pointed out, all of the cache on Blake Island were removed, and it sounds like

there will be no more. Ajetpilot and I took my boat from Manchester and had a very enjoyable day finding all the caches there a few years back. Because of a shoulder injury I have since sold my boat. Yes, I agree Blake Island should be left out and besides it not on any of the pages. Thank you dick

My mistake Dick. I remember back in November or December of 06' there was a big "to-do" about the hides on Blake Island, not being hidden with permission of the Park Rangers, and then the archival began. Snookie and I had just gotten all of them on the Island a couple of months prior, so I paid it no mind after that. I am now looking, and it appears, that since then, there has been the customary rules enforcement of the parks dept. put into place, where the cache owners have to do a mandatory maintenance check on those caches every 90 days, two of those caches still remain active.

I think that if a requirement to get at least one of those two surviving caches were in place, it would truly put the "Challenge" in the Kitsap County Challenge.

1.7k · January 23, 2008

Good place to put the final. I will deny I ever suggested that.

January 23, 2008

Good place to put the final. I will deny I ever suggested that.

...........no seriously....... :huh: . That would be downright mean, to make a cacher find a way over there to get a cache for the requirement, just to have to figure out how to get there a second time to claim the final. Again, I stress... It's all on your conscience now, my friend.

8.3k · January 23, 2008

comment, any cache that requires the use of a boat would be put on my ignore list. There is one in Liberty bay that requires a kayak so I'll never do that one. If you have a cache on Blake Island I think your cutting a lot of people out.

My opinion,

Jim

6.4k · January 23, 2008

You'd think that since the only commercial way to get to Blake Island is from Seattle, That King county would own it (rats)

1.7k · January 23, 2008

comment, any cache that requires the use of a boat would be put on my ignore list. There is one in Liberty bay that requires a kayak so I'll never do that one. If you have a cache on Blake Island I think your cutting a lot of people out.

My opinion,

Jim

Thank you Jim. I found my 600 at Liberty Bay and have done the ones on Blake. Those days are over since I have sold my boat. Right now we are just gathering ideas on how to conduct such a challenge. We want to keep it simple so any cachers can complete the challenge. That means they don't have to be a Premium Member or have GSAK. I am thinking about some options for the final. What would you think if we had a 1-1 option for level one to complete the challenge. Then they would have the option for level two somewhere like on Green or Gold Mountain. After that they would have the option for level three for one on an island either in a lake or saltwater. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Did I leave anyone out? I hate restrictions but what are your thoughts on finds you already have? I was wrong about Blake Island not being on any of the pages. It is included on page 40 of the 2006 Roadrunner, but that is not a problems as also Southworth area is also included. dick

Edited January 23, 2008 by W7WT

8.3k · January 23, 2008

Not restricting the caches to premium members is a good thing. I don't leave the more difficult ones stop me from trying. Succeeding might be another story :yikes: . A cache that requires a 10 or 15 mile round trip might not be done. Doing three separate challenges seems like a bit of work for the challenge maker. Making a mixture of the levels in the challenge seems like a fair idea. Of course if you do challenges for separate levels you can always do a Ueber challenge, you need to do all of the different levels. My previous comment was more along the lines of if you need special equipment (boat, scuba gear, etc) or need special skills (proficient at scaling the face of half dome) your probably going to leave a lot of people out of the game.

Jim

6.4k · January 23, 2008

Tell me true, If you've done a certain area and when a challenge comes up, does one go back to the actual cache to log the find again :yikes: OR what ?

1.7k · January 23, 2008

Tell me true, If you've done a certain area and when a challenge comes up, does one go back to the actual cache to log the find again OR what ?

My feeling and I think Hawk's feeling is that a find is a find, if you have once found it you have been there. However, this is open to discussion. There will be some like Ruck that has probably found caches on every page, I ran a PQ centered on Silverdale

with a radius of 15 miles of my found caches. This did not count the one's that are archived. Opened it in GSAK and exported it to MS S&T. Since we haven't selected what Atlas or map we will use, I haven't checked to see how many pages I would have. My guess would be about 75% of them. What do you think about Level one (1-1)or so for the final to complete the challenge? Then have a level two option on Green or Gold Mountain. Having done that then have the option for a level three which might be an island either in a lake or saltwater. Just an idea.

6.4k · January 23, 2008

Make that an island like Bainbridge :yikes:

As I can't swim anything beyond dog-paddling and I don't own a boat not would have access to one. Don't have friends, either :grin:

1.7k · January 23, 2008

Make that an island like Bainbridge As I can't swim anything beyond dog-paddling and I don't own a boat not would have access to one. Don't have friends, either

Not everyone has to do level two or three. Optional level two is mainly for the the hikers and Optional level three for those that have watercraft. I will probably do all the pages and not do the final cache. Just like the GPS Accuracy Game. Since I laid out the GZs, I never participated in the game. I did allow all the ground crew to participate but if you look at the "Hall of Shame" they never did any better than anyone else. At the 2006 Spring Fling we did have two levels of participation. We had the "Sissy Site" which had better Satellite coverage than the "Expert Site". Just remember all you have to do to complete the Challenge is to Level One. Sorry, I had to sell my boat or I would have taken you to Blake Island. At the end of WWII the USS Poseidon took me to Blake Island where we unloaded ammo.

Edited January 23, 2008 by W7WT

January 24, 2008

comment, any cache that requires the use of a boat would be put on my ignore list. There is one in Liberty bay that requires a kayak so I'll never do that one. If you have a cache on Blake Island I think your cutting a lot of people out.

My opinion,

Jim

I do think you are correct in your thinking. Although, I do a have a couple of additional thoughts on that.

One being, that if the final WAS to be put on Blake Island, then as I referenced in post #16 of this thread, it would really put the "Challenge" in Kitsap County Challenge. I was able to figure out how to get there a year and a half ago to find them, and there was no challenge in place, so it is possible. Such as a group effort, that has been done at least once before by some area cachers...like a mini machine if you will. Creativity would definitely be a must.

Second of all, in regards to finding that page, W7WT, mentioned that Southworth is on that page, so finding a cache on Blake Island to satisfy the requirements to gaining the final coordinates, is a moot point.

Next thought, is, like any challenge....it just isn't everyones cup of tea. There are some challenges, that not everyone will be able to complete...in my case the Washingtons Highest Caches Challenge (I believe is it's name), just not gonna happen for me.

Lastly, this is still in a very early, non-formal planning process, and it is just as likely that the final will NOT be on Blake Island as it being OFF Blake Island. Plus I am not sure that I wanna make a required maintenance run to it every 90 days, AND am still not sure that I will be the one heading this up. Keep an open mind, and keep the ideas and suggestions rolling.

Tell me true, If you've done a certain area and when a challenge comes up, does one go back to the actual cache to log the find again OR what ?

Ya Dick pretty much said what didn't have to be said. Logging finds twice is, in general, a caching practice that in frowned badly upon anyways, (probably ending in the result of your second "found it" log being deleted, and also making a bad name for yourself), why would it be allowed in this challenge? If you have all of the caches in a particular page already found, then you would be waiting for a new one to be put out in that page. And to stop the question before it is asked....placing a cache in a page would not qualify as clearing that page for the challenge. I believe Jon was allowing that for the Delorme Challenge, and I am not sure if he still is, but that was an area covering the entire state, not a county. I think this rule would help prevent, to a certain level, from poorly thought out film canister caches, just being tossed and strewn throughout the county just to complete this challenge. I believe, and am sure alot of people would agree, that enough of those are littering the county already.

1.7k · January 24, 2008

I just got a notice from Amazon that my Thomas Guide had been shipped.

I assumed it would come from Seattle but is coming from Lexington, KY.

I had hoped to get it this week. OK Hawk, I will now shutup it is your turn at Helm. We will have to look for the proper atlas or map and decide how to conduct the operation. The comments I have made are just that. Nothing has been set in concrete. dick

6.4k · January 24, 2008

O.K. not that I matter, but I can see about not going back to find a cache twice, since basically, you more than likely Know where it is. That was a basic but excellent question to ask - in my opinion

6.4k · January 31, 2008

Here's another question. We Are talking about Kitsap county, Right? We live on the Kitsap Peninsula But that incorporates Belfair, Gig Harbor and such :unsure: Those are Mason and Pierce counties And part of our Peninsula (Mostly thinking out loud - so to speak )

February 1, 2008

Here's another question. We Are talking about Kitsap county, Right? We live on the Kitsap Peninsula But that incorporates Belfair, Gig Harbor and such Those are Mason and Pierce counties And part of our Peninsula (Mostly thinking out loud - so to speak )

No, it will be just Kitsap County.

6.4k · February 1, 2008

Thank you -Hawk- As you see, I thought a little clarification was a little in order :smile:

1.7k · February 1, 2008

Hawk is working hard getting the challenge ready. If you are interested, the next time you are at Costco, buy the "Thomas Guide

1st Edition for Kitsap County. They are selling it at %9.99 a copy.

Would make a great FTF award if you could get it into a micro.

Edited February 1, 2008 by W7WT

6.4k · February 1, 2008

Hawk is working hard getting the challenge ready. If you are interested, the next time you are at Costco, buy the "Thomas Guide

1st Edition for Kitsap County. They are selling it at %9.99 a copy.

Would make a great FTF award if you could get it into a micro.

Thanks for the heads up. I know there was a toss up between 2 different guides. :smile:

February 6, 2008

After buying the latest Thomas Guide for Kitsap County at my local Costco in Silverdale, WA. for $9.99, I quickly looked through it. I am now curious about this challenge and how it will work.

I realize that it is still in the early stages of developement, so I'll be patient for whatever answers come about in the next few months.

Having found a great deal of the caches throughout this county, I would be interested in knowing how my past cache finds or cache ownership will be considered for this challenge. Will they or won't they be considered? If not, why?

It appears that there are two pages for each map. As for the number of maps, I have not counted them.

Q1. What types of caches will be allowed(ammo-cans) and what types will be excluded(micros)?

Q2. What about pages that do not have pre-existing caches within them? Will there be new ones placed?

Q3. What about pages with only water(533), with possibly only a sliver of private(453) or inaccessable(500) land?

Q4. Is there a projected date as to when this challenge will be in affect? And, what is the reward for completing it?

Q5. What help, if any, is wanted/needed by local Kitsap County cachers for the assemblage of this challenge?

Q6. If any of my own caches are part of the challenge, are there any changes I must make to them?

Q7. As an owner of lots of caches, do I get any credit for claiming one of my own caches within a specific area?

/\/(°w°)\/\

Fledermaus

February 6, 2008

After buying the latest Thomas Guide for Kitsap County at my local Costco in Silverdale, WA. for $9.99, I quickly looked through it. I am now curious about this challenge and how it will work.

I realize that it is still in the early stages of developement, so I'll be patient for whatever answers come about in the next few months.

Having found a great deal of the caches throughout this county, I would be interested in knowing how my past cache finds or cache ownership will be considered for this challenge. Will they or won't they be considered? If not, why?

It appears that there are two pages for each map. As for the number of maps, I have not counted them.

Q1. What types of caches will be allowed(ammo-cans) and what types will be excluded(micros)?

Q2. What about pages that do not have pre-existing caches within them? Will there be new ones placed?

Q3. What about pages with only water(533), with possibly only a sliver of private(453) or inaccessable(500) land?

Q4. Is there a projected date as to when this challenge will be in affect? And, what is the reward for completing it?

Q5. What help, if any, is wanted/needed by local Kitsap County cachers for the assemblage of this challenge?

Q6. If any of my own caches are part of the challenge, are there any changes I must make to them?

Q7. As an owner of lots of caches, do I get any credit for claiming one of my own caches within a specific area?

/\/(°w°)\/\

Fledermaus

Thanks for the inquiry Ray. Hope I can answer your questions.

RE:

Q1. You will have to wait and see

Q2. You will have to wait and see

Q3. Map 533: Also has a portion of Bainbridge Island on it. Look at the left page of that map number.

Map 453: Also Includes the Kingston area. Look at the left page of that map number.

Map 500: It has land on it between the Hood Canal and Sub-Base Bangor. Look at the right page of that

map number.

Q4. The Projected date of this challenge being in affect: You will have to wait and see.

The reward for completing this challenge: Self Pride that you did so....and a smilie :huh:

Q5. We have it under control, but thanks for your inquiry.

Q6. Nope.

Q7. Nope.

Hope I was able to answer all of your questions, And happy cachin'!

Edited February 6, 2008 by -Hawk-

February 6, 2008

Q3. What about pages with only water(533), with possibly only a sliver of private(453) or inaccessable(500) land?

Thanks for the inquiry Ray. Hope I can answer your questions.

RE:

Q3. Map 533: Also has a portion of Bainbridge Island on it. Look at the left page of that map number.

Map 453: Also Includes the Kingston area. Look at the left page of that map number.

Map 500: It has land on it between the Hood Canal and Sub-Base Bangor. Look at the right page of that

map number.

Thank you for clarifying the issue as to whether individual pages(left separate from right) or pairs of pages(as in two pages per map) will be the method used for this challenge. You didn't really say it, but from what I can gather, it will work with maps and not individual pages. That pretty much cuts things in half. Thank you!

Since you both have everything under your control, I will "wait and see", as you so plainly put it. In any case, I have a better things to do with my time anyway, with lots of projects going on around my new house and property.

/\/(@w@)\/\

6.4k · February 6, 2008

"Q1. What types of caches will be allowed(ammo-cans) and what types will be excluded(micros)?"

This county seems to be almost half of each

February 7, 2008

Thank you for clarifying the issue as to whether individual pages(left separate from right) or pairs of pages(as in two pages per map) will be the method used for this challenge. You didn't really say it, but from what I can gather, it will work with maps and not individual pages.

Your Welcome and you are correct in your gathering. The Map #'s will be what is used. There are two pages per map as you look at the guide. Example: Map# 500 covers two pages..a left and a right page. To claim that map# you will need to find a cache on either the left page of map #500 or the right page of map #500. You will not need to find a cache on both the left and right page, just one or the other.

1.7k · February 7, 2008

Tim, Map 500 wasn't a good example as the left page is in Jefferson County and I know Ray has found caches there.

February 7, 2008

Tim, Map 500 wasn't a good example as the left page is in Jefferson County and I know Ray has found caches there.

Thanks Dick. I was arbitrarily throwing a number out there. Change that example to Map #XXX.

1.7k · February 7, 2008

"Q1. What types of caches will be allowed(ammo-cans) and what types will be excluded(micros)?"

This county seems to be almost half of each

The thinking right now is that the only cache type NOT eligible will be an Event Cache. All others will be allowed, no matter the size. Hawk has a very heavy work schedule so it may take some time to get the challenge on the road.

1.7k · February 7, 2008

Yesterday I made a bookmark of the caches I could use for the KCC, so we would have something to practice on to see how best to verify the finds on the maps. I am having problems getting them shared and public. I edit the bookmark and check shared and public, and when I preview the bookmark it shows them checked however when I go back and view they are gone. What do I do after I edit and click the shared and public. I don't find any kind of SUBMIT button. Thanks Dick

2.5k · February 7, 2008

Yesterday I made a bookmark of the caches I could use for the KCC, so we would have something to practice on to see how best to verify the finds on the maps. I am having problems getting them shared and public. I edit the bookmark and check shared and public, and when I preview the bookmark it shows them checked however when I go back and view they are gone. What do I do after I edit and click the shared and public. I don't find any kind of SUBMIT button. Thanks Dick

There should be a button marked Edit Bookmark List

1.7k · February 7, 2008

Yesterday I made a bookmark of the caches I could use for the KCC, so we would have something to practice on to see how best to verify the finds on the maps. I am having problems getting them shared and public. I edit the bookmark and check shared and public, and when I preview the bookmark it shows them checked however when I go back and view they are gone. What do I do after I edit and click the shared and public. I don't find any kind of SUBMIT button. Thanks Dick

There should be a button marked Edit Bookmark List

Is that also the button I click after I have edited and clicked shared and public. Time for lunch but I will play around some more with it. Thanks Dick

Edited February 7, 2008 by W7WT

2.5k · February 7, 2008

Yesterday I made a bookmark of the caches I could use for the KCC, so we would have something to practice on to see how best to verify the finds on the maps. I am having problems getting them shared and public. I edit the bookmark and check shared and public, and when I preview the bookmark it shows them checked however when I go back and view they are gone. What do I do after I edit and click the shared and public. I don't find any kind of SUBMIT button. Thanks Dick

There should be a button marked Edit Bookmark List

Is that also the button I click after I have edited and clicked shared and public. Time for lunch but I will play around some more with it. Thanks Dick

That is the one. And I fixed the broken quote thing. (I hope I fixed it anyhow)

1.7k · February 7, 2008

That did it. Thanks

February 8, 2008

That did it. Thanks

Workin' fine on my end too, Dick.

8.3k · February 8, 2008

Is there a reason why Liberty Bay Resort (GCHRJ9) was chosen? Is this the ONLY cache on that page? This is a level 5 terrain cache because it requires a BOAT. I think many will not attempt the challenge because of this one cache.

0.02 worth,

Jim

Edited February 8, 2008 by jholly

1.7k · February 8, 2008

Is there a reason why Liberty Bay Resort (GCHRJ9) was chosen? Is this the ONLY cache on that page? This is a level 5 terrain cache because it requires a BOAT. I think many will not attempt the challenge because of this one cache.

0.02 worth,

Jim

Good morning Jim. You must be refering to the bookmark Kitsap County Callenge by W7WT. Those caches are one's I have found that we are using to refine our verifying technique.

That Liberty Bay Resort cache is on Map 501, where you will be able to use any cache on that map except an event cache regardless of size. The reason I used it was I found it for my 600th find. You will not need a boat to finish the KCC, Hawk is working on the cache page and when it comes out, I think you will be pleased.

The book mark name is probably missleading as it has random caches that I have found

for our use in settng up the challenge. Thanks for your interest Jim.

I have edited the bookmark and added a description explaining it use.

dick

Edited February 8, 2008 by W7WT

Kitsap County Thomas Guide or Roadrunner Challenge

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