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New 'Clever' Caches


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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

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Here's two more cents. I wonder how long it will take this thread to get to $1.00?

 

If you encounter a specific cache that is bothersome to you at some level, you can contact the cache owner to register your concerns. If you believe there may be an issue of safety or legality involved, you could post a needs archived log to get a volunteer reviewer engaged, or send an e-mail to the reviewer if you don't want to turn your concerns into a spoiler.

 

It will be hard for people to respond constructively when only a list of generalities is tossed out for discussion.

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Here's my two-bits worth; you're up to $.29.

Clever hides are great - as long as I can do whatever I need to do with my hands and fingers. Tweezers are okay to extract a small log, but if one must use tools to open or find the cache, it'd be a bit much. A Puzzle or Multi-cache listing could be appropriate for those kinds of hides, but those labels alone suggest that the finder is aware of special circumstances needed to find the cache. Come to think of it, given ample description, appropriately marked difficulty and terrain ratings could cover caches that required climbing equipment, etc..

Edited by JeepinCalifornia
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I've seen electrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an electrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavilions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thoughts.

 

john

 

My $.02

 

I agree electrical boxes, conduit ends and electrical covers located on actual electrical equipment can create an environment where a cacher may search the wrong area on another cache thereby endangering him. I am very cautious when it comes to anything electrical. Although I search the electrical equipment and find the cache, I often wonder about seekers with no electrical knowledge. I would sure hate to read in the local paper,

"Man electrocuted while geocaching" :ph34r: especially if it was me. :D

But the very first electrical box cover magnet cache I found was on a retaining handrail structure. I overlooked the cache a few times before finally realizing that there shouldn't be anything electrical there.. Painted the same color, looked like it was meant to be there. Way Cool! :D

I've found a few of these fake nuts. Magnetically attached, no problem. Hand tight, no problem. Never had to use a wrench on one yet though. :o

And while we are at it, I'll throw a couple more cents into the pot. Underground sprinklers, in an area where there should be no sprinklers, such as in the middle of a forest, OK. In a groomed park, aaaaarrrggg. :( Lets just say I've opened more actual underground sprinklers than 'cache' underground sprinklers. When I see the sprinkler head at ground zero, it is the last thing I will search before finally giving up. Usually I'm wrong. Do you know how many caches are hidden near underground sprinklers? :(

OK, charge me about 7 cents there. I'll send it through PayPal. :D

 

Edited for spelling and punctuation

Edited by SGT red jeep
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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are finding out there and don't rule out the possibility that you are caching in an area where there are bolt caches that require tools to open them. Or if there are people packing tools and randomly taking things apart. That can be very bad for the game in general.

 

I think common sense would dictate that engineering a cache so no tools are necessary is essential when using hardware of any kind. If you do not have the skills or resources to do this, then you should not be hiding a cache like this. Conversely, if you don't have enough mechanical knowledge to know that something bad might happen if you are removing a certain bolt, maybe you should cache with someone who does.

 

I'd suggest giving your fellow cachers a little more credit as well. You do not have to play this game long to understand when it is a good idea to stop searching. I think most people understand the general spirit of the game well enough to know if they are digging there is something very wrong.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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I've done both a bolt cache and an electrical box cache.

 

The former is still in place, and it is obvious what it is to a person looking for it. It is on a sawn down telephone pole currently used to block off a parking area (one of about 100 such 3' poles). The design is such that all you need to do is pull out the bolt.

 

The electric box cache (no longer in place) was on an old telephone pole in a park. It was obvious it was the cache, since there were no cables going into or out of the box.

 

(edited for clarification)

Edited by BBWolf+3Pigs
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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are finding out there and don't rule out the possibility that you are caching in an area where there are bolt caches that require tools to open them. Or if there are people packing tools and randomly taking things apart. That can be very bad for the game in general.

 

I think common sense would dictate that engineering a cache so no tools are necessary is essential when using hardware of any kind. If you do not have the skills or resources to do this, then you should not be hiding a cache like this. Conversely, if you don't have enough mechanical knowledge to know that something bad might happen if you are removing a certain bolt, maybe you should cache with someone who does.

 

I'd suggest giving your fellow cachers a little more credit as well. You do not have to play this game long to understand when it is a good idea to stop searching. I think most people understand the general spirit of the game well enough to know if they are digging there is something very wrong.

I can only offer you one cent, since TGB summed up my position perfectly.

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I'm dead against the electrical junction or splice boxes being used. Cachers with kids could have troubles down the road when little Timmy decides he wants to see what goodies are right behind that cover (only it's a real box). And believe me, kids CAN open things as this.

 

I went to a "child friendly" cache recently, the cache was in a large junction box (with conduit and all). Kids just don't need to be taught to look in these! I wrote the owner who instantly disabled ALL his caches to do a bit of "soul searching". He enabled the caches after adding a large warning to his caches, and I think he re-did the electric box hide (I found several of his caches, most were good to go, he just wanted to protect the kids as I had suggested).

 

I once found a fuse panel being used...complete with wiring and conduit...it looked real. Not a good idea. I also once used a cable box for a cache. While I considered that different from an electric box, we thought better of it and took down the cache. You can't get hurt in a cable box unless you accidentally shut the door on your finger!

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I did an electrical box cache once. It only takes a little thought and imagination to let people know it is safe to open.

 

This particular cache was in a box that has a tab to place a lock or seal on. There was a small combo lock there. You find the combo by noting numbers on signs as you walk the only trail to the spot.

 

On the lid was a label:

 

"Official Geocache Logging Station"

 

As for caching with kids. If you don't want to teach little Johnny to open electrical boxes, then don't open it!!

 

If you feel it may endanger his life to know how to open them or that geocaches may be hidden in them is it really worth it to get that smiley? Go back later alone if you have to have it!

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As for caching with kids. If you don't want to teach little Johnny to open electrical boxes, then don't open it!!

 

If you feel it may endanger his life to know how to open them or that geocaches may be hidden in them is it really worth it to get that smiley? Go back later alone if you have to have it!

 

Well, that's GREAT info for those that read these forums...what about the THOUSANDS of others who don't? BTW...my kids are plenty old enough to figure out that an electric box hide is dangerous and not a great idea for a FAMILY FRIENDLY sport! Maybe you missed the part that said the cache I spoke of was supposed to be for the kids? The description even asked the adults to sit down at the picnic tables and let the kids find it themselves...even noted that the caches were all at kid level! Picnic table was NOT in view of the container. :lol:

 

Going into an electric box is something that I don't like at the very least, definitely not something to teach the youngsters...and just so I know, how would you be able to tell an electric box hide if it isn't mentioned? Without opening the box, how would you really know (not many want to advertise their hide with a sticker in plain sight). See, it's all good with me, I won't mess with them. How many cachers do you truly think would want to just walk away?

 

oh....and it was little Timmy.... :laughing::P

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I'm dead against the electrical junction or splice boxes being used. Cachers with kids could have troubles down the road when little Timmy decides he wants to see what goodies are right behind that cover (only it's a real box). And believe me, kids CAN open things as this.

 

I went to a "child friendly" cache recently, the cache was in a large junction box (with conduit and all). Kids just don't need to be taught to look in these! I wrote the owner who instantly disabled ALL his caches to do a bit of "soul searching". He enabled the caches after adding a large warning to his caches, and I think he re-did the electric box hide (I found several of his caches, most were good to go, he just wanted to protect the kids as I had suggested).

 

I once found a fuse panel being used...complete with wiring and conduit...it looked real. Not a good idea. I also once used a cable box for a cache. While I considered that different from an electric box, we thought better of it and took down the cache. You can't get hurt in a cable box unless you accidentally shut the door on your finger!

 

I totally agree; sets a bad precedent that electrical equipment owned by others should be messed with.

 

Simply no reason for it. It has been done, its not new or creative, and could ultimately result in a backlash against the sport, when people do damage to real equipment or get gurt.

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At the risk of being flamed here, I go back on the adage that "If you think it is too dangerous, don't do it".

I have gotten smilies on quite a few electrical box, caches, and each and every one of them was in a place that no live wire, or electricity could, or should have been. The ones that were close enough to electricity to be a concern were clearly labeled, or had a combination lock on them, as indicated by the cache page.

Perhaps I have been lucky enough to have found this type of cache container placed by a responsible and caring hider, or maybe the uncaring and idiotic hiders don't live where I cache.

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The electric box cache (no longer in place) was on an old telephone pole in a park. It was obvious it was the cache, since there were no cables going into or out of the box.
An electrical box on a solid object can have live wires coming in only through the solid object and not visible from the outside. Perhaps this one was obvious in other ways, but in general "no visible wires" does not imply "no wires".

 

Edward

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I'll disagree with the idea that all electrical box type hides are bad. I've never had to "open" one - either the face plate is held on with magnets, or the outlet cover of an exterior outlet box opened to show no outlet, but the cache. Neither of which is normal for real electical boxes.

 

Same experiences I have had with them. Either locked and tagged as a geocache logging station (who but a geocacher would know what this meant) or magnetic and moved when you grabbed the outside of a box. None were close to other "live" boxes.

 

Placing an electrical box cache near other "live" boxes would be irresponsible.

 

As far as using one for a kid friendly cache and encourage kids to find it on their own that I would frown on.

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I'm dead against the electrical junction or splice boxes being used. Cachers with kids could have troubles down the road when little Timmy decides he wants to see what goodies are right behind that cover (only it's a real box). And believe me, kids CAN open things as this.

 

I went to a "child friendly" cache recently, the cache was in a large junction box (with conduit and all). Kids just don't need to be taught to look in these! I wrote the owner who instantly disabled ALL his caches to do a bit of "soul searching". He enabled the caches after adding a large warning to his caches, and I think he re-did the electric box hide (I found several of his caches, most were good to go, he just wanted to protect the kids as I had suggested).

 

I once found a fuse panel being used...complete with wiring and conduit...it looked real. Not a good idea. I also once used a cable box for a cache. While I considered that different from an electric box, we thought better of it and took down the cache. You can't get hurt in a cable box unless you accidentally shut the door on your finger!

 

I totally agree; sets a bad precedent that electrical equipment owned by others should be messed with.

 

Simply no reason for it. It has been done, its not new or creative, and could ultimately result in a backlash against the sport, when people do damage to real equipment or get gurt.

 

After almost 7 years of hiding things in this sport how many hides are "new or creative". This type of hide has been around for 3-4 years at least. I haven't heard or read of any problems caused by it in the press or forums.

 

OH yeah there was a big scare about some lite-brites. We need to ban those things and make sure our kids don't play with those type of objects, lest they get used to playing with something that looks like a bomb by the police.

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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

I HATE hides that look like electrical or plumbing fixtures/panels or which are placed near such devices. In fact, I hate any kind of electrical or plumbing fixture/device hides unless they are in the middle of the wilderness, where there is no mistaking that they are simply a cache. I also abhor fencepost hides or similar hides which encourage disassembling municipal or private infrastructure.

 

Beyond those commonsense caveats, I do not mind hides that require special tools to find/recover, so long as:

  • the cache listing page fully discloses what may be needed and warns prospective seekers in advance of such requirements
  • the appropriate attribute icons are assigned to the cache listing page
  • the Difficulty and Terrain ratings accurately reflect the need for tools
  • the hide does not accidentally invite destruction or disassembly of municipal or private infrastructure

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I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

 

I, for one, LOVE and live for caches like these!!

 

The ONLY part of your post that I can agree with is that an electrical box cache that is supposedly FOR kids to do without parental supervision is probably encouraging natural selection a bit too much. What ever happened to telling children "Don't ever do this without Mommy or Daddy. We're what you call 'experts.'"?

 

What ever happened to teaching them (the children) discrimination instead of blanket fear of such things? Teaching them a little discrimination at that age may help prevent such calamities and earth-shattering tragedies in the future such as "ripping up fenceposts in a park" just because they once found a cache under a fake fencepost and "people removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that".

 

I once found a cache that looked like a pile of dog poop. Do you think that I now pick up every pile of dog poop that I might see near GZ? :shocked:

 

PS: What is "invasive" about this sort of cache, anyway?

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[ I think common sense would dictate that engineering a cache so no tools are necessary is essential when using hardware of any kind ]

 

Or provide the tool that is required.

 

I have a cache where the container (PVC pipe) is underwater, and for water tightness the PVC plug must be tightened past what one can do by hand. The solution? I provided a cheap chinese wrench that is attached to the cache. Find the cache and you find the wrench that enables you to open it (and re-tighten when replacing the cache).

 

No problems so far, great comments in the log.

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I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

 

I, for one, LOVE and live for caches like these!!

 

The ONLY part of your post that I can agree with is that an electrical box cache that is supposedly FOR kids to do without parental supervision is probably encouraging natural selection a bit too much. What ever happened to telling children "Don't ever do this without Mommy or Daddy. We're what you call 'experts.'"?

 

What ever happened to teaching them (the children) discrimination instead of blanket fear of such things? Teaching them a little discrimination at that age may help prevent such calamities and earth-shattering tragedies in the future such as "ripping up fenceposts in a park" just because they once found a cache under a fake fencepost and "people removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that".

 

I once found a cache that looked like a pile of dog poop. Do you think that I now pick up every pile of dog poop that I might see near GZ? :laughing:

 

PS: What is "invasive" about this sort of cache, anyway?

 

I agree, parents should teach their kids to know right from wrong. Unfortunately, this isn't just a problem for kids! I've personally watched ADULTS search electrical equipment thinking the cache would be located there. Why? Obviously because they have found this type of hide before. You get someone who has little or no experience with electrical equipment poking about in a "live" area and you could very well have a problem! Now, if an ADULT (who some would say should know better) would do this, don't you think a youngster (say the age where they might go out alone...maybe 13) might as well? Telling a youngster NOT to do what "mommy & daddy" do...does that work very well with smoking or drinking?

 

When a "litebrite" can kill my youngster or a friend, I'll worry about those...let's not make a joke of something potentially as serious as this. Some of you have said you've never found one that wasn't obvious? Great! Guess what, there are many that AREN'T obvious at all. THOSE are the problem caches. I'm certain someone can tell a fake electric box stuck to the side of a tree in the wilderness, the ones used in "live" applications are a bit different. It doesn't just have to be an electric box container either, I've seen those nano's attached to panels or hidden behind live areas!

 

As for invasive...how about the hides where someone drills a hole into a telephone pole, bridge piling or other wood structure? Many think this is an "innovative" hide. It's ACTUALLY against guidelines and potentially a problem for caching in whole...unless you own the structure or such. Then it's still a potential problem as you often find "copycat" hides. And yes, they do get published, usually because the method isn't mentioned in the reviewer notes.

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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

 

I once found a cache on a car, I have not yet taken up dismanteling cars to find caches. However I do hate sprinkler head hides, that's the one and only thing I've ever unscrewed that wasn't a cache.

 

The theory of what you are saying and the actual practice are not in alignment. We don't take the world apart just because we have taken other things apart for a purpose.

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I don't mind these kind of hides, but the gray area here to me is.....

When you drill into a telephone pole or other structure to mount an electrical box cache, could it be considered vandalism or defacing public property?(unless permission was granted) What about removing a fence post cap to hide a cache? Just wondering........ :laughing::yikes:

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I agree, parents should teach their kids to know right from wrong. Unfortunately, this isn't just a problem for kids! I've personally watched ADULTS search electrical equipment thinking the cache would be located there. Why? Obviously because they have found this type of hide before. You get someone who has little or no experience with electrical equipment poking about in a "live" area and you could very well have a problem! Now, if an ADULT (who some would say should know better) would do this, don't you think a youngster (say the age where they might go out alone...maybe 13) might as well? Telling a youngster NOT to do what "mommy & daddy" do...does that work very well with smoking or drinking?

 

Have you got even a single example of somebody getting electrocuted (or even mildly shocked) by looking for a cache in a real electrical box? I doubt it. Sure, some may wiggle a real one, or even tug gently at it, but that's simply exploratory behavior and isn't going to hurt the box or them.

 

When a child gets to the age when they begin to go out alone (caching or otherwise) there are MANY things that a parent worries about. Playing with electrical boxes is pretty low on that list.

 

I still think my fake poop analogy was a good one.

 

Drilling a hole in a telephone pole is vandalism. Is it significan vadalism? I doubt it, to the telephone company, but it does put out a bad precidence and regardless, is against the rules. But I've seen messages on here where people extended that to mean that its wrong to drill a hole in a log from your own woodpile and put it out there.

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I agree, parents should teach their kids to know right from wrong. Unfortunately, this isn't just a problem for kids! I've personally watched ADULTS search electrical equipment thinking the cache would be located there. Why? Obviously because they have found this type of hide before. You get someone who has little or no experience with electrical equipment poking about in a "live" area and you could very well have a problem! Now, if an ADULT (who some would say should know better) would do this, don't you think a youngster (say the age where they might go out alone...maybe 13) might as well? Telling a youngster NOT to do what "mommy & daddy" do...does that work very well with smoking or drinking?

 

Have you got even a single example of somebody getting electrocuted (or even mildly shocked) by looking for a cache in a real electrical box? I doubt it. Sure, some may wiggle a real one, or even tug gently at it, but that's simply exploratory behavior and isn't going to hurt the box or them.

 

When a child gets to the age when they begin to go out alone (caching or otherwise) there are MANY things that a parent worries about. Playing with electrical boxes is pretty low on that list.

 

I still think my fake poop analogy was a good one.

 

Drilling a hole in a telephone pole is vandalism. Is it significan vadalism? I doubt it, to the telephone company, but it does put out a bad precidence and regardless, is against the rules. But I've seen messages on here where people extended that to mean that its wrong to drill a hole in a log from your own woodpile and put it out there.

 

Nope...but I've never seen a bear in Michigan either....does that mean they don't exist?

 

I've seen how some people do their "exploratory" searching....yes, I could just imagine someone getting hurt or worse! Also, I thought we were talking about caching...if a youngster goes out CACHING alone.....

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I agree, parents should teach their kids to know right from wrong. Unfortunately, this isn't just a problem for kids! I've personally watched ADULTS search electrical equipment thinking the cache would be located there. Why? Obviously because they have found this type of hide before. You get someone who has little or no experience with electrical equipment poking about in a "live" area and you could very well have a problem! Now, if an ADULT (who some would say should know better) would do this, don't you think a youngster (say the age where they might go out alone...maybe 13) might as well? Telling a youngster NOT to do what "mommy & daddy" do...does that work very well with smoking or drinking?
Have you got even a single example of somebody getting electrocuted (or even mildly shocked) by looking for a cache in a real electrical box? I doubt it. Sure, some may wiggle a real one, or even tug gently at it, but that's simply exploratory behavior and isn't going to hurt the box or them.

 

When a child gets to the age when they begin to go out alone (caching or otherwise) there are MANY things that a parent worries about. Playing with electrical boxes is pretty low on that list. ...

Nope...but I've never seen a bear in Michigan either....does that mean they don't exist? ...
I've heard of bears in Michigan, so I can assume that they exist. I've never heard of anyone getting electrocuted looking for a cache in an electrical box, however.
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I've heard of bears in Michigan, so I can assume that they exist. I've never heard of anyone getting electrocuted looking for a cache in an electrical box, however.

 

And you'd likely have heard of it....why?? You read every single paper that comes out, watch every bit of news etc....right??? Besides, just because it has yet to happen (as you see it) doesn't mean it can't or won't. Since I won't be hiding any of these, I can say this won't happen at my cache...but it COULD happen at someone else's!

 

OH, and the more caches of this nature out there, the better the odds!

 

Truly, the "have you heard..." argument is weak at best! I've also heard of fairies, trolls, sasquatch and others...but doubt they exist (well, maybe sasquatch) Because someone says they do or don't doesn't mean much does it? I've never actually personally seen someone walking on the moon, does that mean it never happened?

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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With the virtual cache dying an ugly death (I know, this argument is 2+ years old) I'm wondering how the heck some of these new 'clever' ideas survive. I've seen eletrical conduit and splice boxes used as caches. Fake bolts, requiring removal, and other invasive caches.

How in the world do you justify making a cache look like an eletrical splice box? Where's the ownership going to be when the next cacher dismantles one thinking it's a cache and gets hurt? Same with the fake bolts. People removing bolts in park pavillions because the last cache 'looked like that'.

It seems that the 'clever' aspect is over riding the 'smart' aspect. Fenceposts stuck in the ground with spikes, caches hidden underneath. How long til someone is ripping up fenceposts in a park before this takes a bad spin towards geocaching?

I know most of us are smart enough to know better, but when dealing with large groups you always cater to the lowest denominator.

 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and wondering if I'm alone in my thougths.

 

john

 

I actually came away from the thread about ingenious ways to camoflauge caches feeling the same way.

 

IMHO, "hiding" something well does not mean it is a good cache hiding place. If it encourages "dismantling" areas by future seekers, (be it a natural or artifical element of the landscape) then it is a bad way to hide something. This includes areas able to be dismantled by hand/fingers.

 

It's not so much how something is hidden, but how far those finders will go the next hunt to find something due to previous experience.

Edited by Fogtripper
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I've heard of bears in Michigan, so I can assume that they exist. I've never heard of anyone getting electrocuted looking for a cache in an electrical box, however.

 

And you'd likely have heard of it....why?? You read every single paper that comes out, watch every bit of news etc....right??? ...

Are you serious? If this had happened there would be three threads about it faster than you can say 'lite-brite'.
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OK sbell, I guess you'd argue this until the cows come home, so:

 

Too many variables to assure anyone would have heard about it happening (unless a witness to it, it may never have been related to a caching accident). Even if it hasn't already happened, does that mean it won't??

 

I guess you've never seen a less-than-careful cacher at work? I once watched an older gentleman use his "cane" (four legged metal walker cane) to poke around near a pump station...very close to the power supply and cables. "OLDER"=more experienced and should know better...right??

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OK sbell, I guess you'd argue this until the cows come home, so:

 

Too many variables to assure anyone would have heard about it happening (unless a witness to it, it may never have been related to a caching accident). Even if it hasn't already happened, does that mean it won't??

 

I guess you've never seen a less-than-careful cacher at work? I once watched an older gentleman use his "cane" (four legged metal walker cane) to poke around near a pump station...very close to the power supply and cables. "OLDER"=more experienced and should know better...right??

I just think that some people are generating solutions without any problems. There's no point in micromanaging the activity in this way.

 

If you come upon a cache that you are not comfortable searching for, ignore it and move on to one that you are comfortable with.

 

(BTW, you're the one over arguing the issue. I mentioned the illogical nature of the argument you gave in post 27 and then defended that speed at which geocaching-news is spread in the forums. That's it, except for a 'me, too' post wayyyy up at the top.)

Edited by sbell111
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Since I won't be hiding any of these, I can say this won't happen at my cache

Can you guarantee that? I think not.

 

That is the real problem with caches encouraging "take apart"... even caches placed by conscientious cachers who have taken great pains to ensure no one could POSSIBLY do anything dangerous to find their cache will still be sought by duffusses who, because they have found caches in such places before, will try to get inside any likely looking electrical box, gas metre, sprinkler head, or whatever that is within a hundred yards of GZ.

 

My brother-in-law's cache caused trouble for precisely this reason. It was within about 25 feet of a gas metre. Had security not seen people screwing around with the gas metre, it would have been a VERY cool (and very difficult) cache.

 

The only solution is to place your cache in the desert with a flag that says "cache located here." If we place difficult caches, especially micros, then inappropriate places are going to get searched... because there is precedent.

 

The horse is already out of the barn.

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I agree to a point CC, too many of these "bad caches" have already been found by those that aren't capable of differentiating between the "real thing" and a container.

 

Since 99.9% of my caches are NOWHERE near anything dangerous that could be construed as a cache, I think I AM fairly safe in saying this won't happen at my caches! Thinking about it, the only real chance of this happening would be my nano hide which isn't close to any electric, gas or water equipment (that I've seen). I'd have to go back through all my hides to assure this, but MOST of my hides are in the woods or a cemetery.

 

All it will take is one careless cacher to make a split second mistake and we have trouble. I'm not going to worry about how others want to place hides, that's their call. I WILL however try to keep finders of MY caches safe from these risks, and I'll not be using questionable containers so others don't get those ideas from me.

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In a cemetery? I once found a cache inside a tomb. I guess people who had found that cache and are looking for yours would cause alot of trouble, huh?

 

Why? Will a tomb be as dangerous as being electrocuted? Cows haven't come home yet?

 

You can make all the silly argument you wish, you will not sway my thought on the dangers of an electric box hide. So have fun, find all you wish, place them if you want.

Not a danger like an electrical box, but a cacher that goes around opening tombs (how? *shrugs*) or moving tombstones to look for caches is a danger to the sport.

 

It is not your fault for hiding the cache there. It is the irresponsible cacher's fault for getting into things that should be left alone.

 

My point was that it can happen on ANY cache. One cannot outsmart a fool's ability to be foolish. That still does not excuse those who place "clever" caches that tacitly encourage such behaviour.

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Ive got to be honest, and maybe things are different over here in England but if I find a cache thats a bolt the last thing Id expect the next cache to be is a bolt. Use your brain. If your prying open the door of an electrical substation consider you might be in the wrong place.

 

This thread has in fact inspired me to go and set an electrical box hide as I havent come across one. I also feel fairly confident that the people that cache around here have enough sense not to run round and open every box they see just in case... and that includes the children.

 

Stop over analysing and worrying about something so stupid.

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I sure hope YOUR cache isn't the one where some unsuspecting cacher makes a fatal mistake...THAT would be stupid and sad!

 

No one said you HAD to open a box to get electrocuted...maybe you should read the whole thing again. As I have said, I've seen the careless cacher (maybe you don't have any of those over there....hurrah), so much could happen that it isn't funny!

 

But then, why worry about that? We'd just get rid of those careless cachers, right?

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Yes of course we have careless cachers, they're just not retarded. And no you don't necessarily have to open a box to get electrocuted (though I'm sure the electrician would be held more accountable) but following that you don't necessarily have to be looking for a cache to lean against an electrical box. What I'm saying is that you are worring pointlessly about something so stupid. I'd also be really careful of those woodland caches. Look under the wrong stick and bang you've got a splinter that could go septic, or step on a bear trap, or get hit by a falling acorn, or get bitten by a rabid squirrel. There's a whole world of danger out there it's just whether it's likely to happen. I'll tell you what if someone eletrocutes themself on an electrical box while looking for a cache disguised as an electrical box you can say I told you so. If you haven't been hit by a meteor.

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'New' clever caches...

 

I found my first 'electrical box' cache in mid-2002. The discover of that cache did not result in my rummaging around in every electrical box that I've come across; nor has there been a steady stream of electricuted cachers in the area ever since.

 

I don't believe that we are in need of any new rules to protect us from ourselves.

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I still think my fake poop analogy was a good one. :D:mad::o:)

 

I also found a cache one that was in a toilet that had been lugged far into the woods. I LOVED it! Made me laugh out loud. Now, I can only speak for myself, but that is the ONLY toilet that I've looked for a cache in, and I've seen many since then.

 

As for bears in Michigan, I have seen them. And I've seen caches in Michigan hidden in hollow trees. Bears in Michigan hybernate in hollow trees. 'Nuf said?

Edited by knowschad
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Well, it's been an interesting read so far, and I still stand by my thoughts.

Just this last weekend, I talked with more than one seasoned cacher who'd dismantled a sprinkler head mistakenly looking for a cache. I know if I managed a park and found someone pulling up sprinkler heads, that'd be the end of caching in my land management area.

I guess I'm just old school. You know, where the idea of cacheing was to place a cache somewhere you wanted people to see and experience.

To each their own I suppose.

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