Overseas American Benchmark

[+WxGuesser]

I'm stationed over here in Korea at Kunsan AB and I was walking to an appointment I had.. well I found a Corps of Engineers Benchmark on a sidewalk.. I didn't really look at it very much because I took a picture of it...when I got home and tried to download the pic... it was too blurry.. I did however mark it in my GPS. N 35 55.057 E 126 37.378 Does anybody know of a way I can findout about benchmarks overseas? I suppose I could go to the Civil Engineering shop on base and ask them for a listing.. but I doubt they'd give it to me.. Also is there a way I can Log this BM?

 

thanks

[+BuckBrooke]

My understanding is that there are no NGS marks in foreign countries, and thus no way to log them in the NGS database. I don't know if the Corps of Engineers has a logging system; I doubt it.

[Bill93]

I've heard that NGS has a few just across US borders into Canada and Mexico, but I've not heard anything to suggest they listed anything more distant.

[evenfall]

Well where all the NGS and it's predecessors may have or did set survey is not completely known to me but I am aware that Canada also saw CGS Surveyors on the Alcan Highway all along the way to Alaska, in 1943-44, CGS Surveyors triangulated the Philippine Islands Just before WWII and some were captured by the Japanese occupiers of the P.I during that conflict, so they were then Prisoners of War. Many other South Sea islands were triangulated by the CGS as were some of the Islands of the Caribbean. There are likely other places as well, but who knows. Today NGS only keep data current for marks on American Soil, and does not share the information on stations set in other countries. It is likely the information was transferred to the respective governments...

 

As for a survey marker on Kunsan AB, Yup The Base Civil Engineers Squadron will know what it is and all the data for it as well.. Sorry, It isn't part of the National Geodetic Survey's database so it is unavailable to log for the game here at geocaching.

 

Rob

[evenfall]

Wx,

 

Just another thought,

 

Survey Markers on an Airbase are not unlike the ones found anywhere else. It was likely used to help position Roads Underground Utilities, Buildings, and so on. Some could be used to officially position the Runways for the Charts, Give the Airbase a Geodetic Position, and help the engineers design future enhancements just like any city. Each base really is just a small town with a concerted mission really, and it needs all the same amenities any town would.

 

Just another day in the life of a survey marker...

 

Rob

[DaveD]

Bill93 - NGS does have data in other countries that can be found in our database. During 1996 we performed a survey of international airports in 19 Caribbean countries for the FAA and the local Civil Aviation Authorities. These include Anquilla, Antigua, Arbua, Bahamas, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, St. Maarten, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Luica, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname and Trinida & Tobago. In addition, during the 1960s the Coast & Geodetic Survey (now NGS) conducted a global satellite tiangulation survey that went to many countries where we set marks. Unfortunately these marks have never been tied in with GPS and are not listed in the NGS database.

[ArtMan]

In addition, during the 1960s the Coast & Geodetic Survey (now NGS) conducted a global satellite tiangulation survey that went to many countries where we set marks. Unfortunately these marks have never been tied in with GPS and are not listed in the NGS database.

Satellite triangulation in the 1960s? That sounds bleeding edge. Are there any useful online resources where one could read more about that?

 

-ArtMan-

[DaveD]

There were many professional papers written about the BC-4 (Balistic Cameria) satellite triangulation program, however I'm not aware of any that are online. You can find several images of the equipment and crews on the NOAA historic images site --http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/geodesy/geind1.htm

[mrh - terre haute]

During 1996 we performed a survey of international airports in 19 Caribbean countries for the FAA and the local Civil Aviation Authorities. These include Anquilla, Antigua, Arbua, Bahamas, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, St. Maarten, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Luica, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname and Trinida & Tobago.

I'll be visiting three of those islands. I'll be sure to keep a sharp lookout.

[DaveD]

The best way to find the datasheets for these stations is to go the NGS "datasheets" page and select "county" as the retrieve (even though there are no counties). Scroll to the particular country and select it, then select "undetermined" on the county list and "GPS" for the data type desired. This will retireve all the points we positioned in each country.

[mrh - terre haute]

DaveD

Thanks, I pulled a list of about 10 markers that should be within range of where I'm going to be.

 

mrh

[mrh - terre haute]

Well I'm back and I wasn't able to find very many of what I was after. It seems they have these big storms in the Caribbean that tend to rearrange the landscape making intersection stations very temporary. I did find these two markers on the pier in St. Thomas:

 

TV1537

 

I was surprised that my gps wasn't giving a closer reading. I also found this marker on the same pier. I was hoping it would be in the NGS database but it doesn't appear to be:

 

NOS1639N

 

The NAD83 coords for this are N18 19' 52.1 W064 55' 29.8

 

The next stop where I was able to do any searching was Grand Cayman Island. While there we found:

 

AB9262

 

Here is a closeup or AB9262 VIDAL

AB9262 Closeup

Here is a photo of the setting for AB9262:

AB9262 Setting

 

While walking back downtown my eagle-eyed girlfriend spotted this marker at the side of the road. The sad thing is that we were more like 5 feet above sea level as opposed to 53.

 

KK4838

 

Since none of these are in the Geocaching database the only smilies I get for my trouble are these -

Edited February 11, 2005 by mrh - terre haute

[+BuckBrooke]

KK4838 is interesting, besides the wonderful setting (at least compared to New Mexico). Have ya'll run across many benchmarks where the PID is the monumented name of the mark?

[DaveD]

Great finds, especially the VIDAL SPOT in Cayman. I GPSed that one and can attest that it was one of the better stations I've ever surveyed in my entire career. The designation KK4838 is not a IPD, it just happens to have the same alpha-numeric combination. This mark is strictly a Cayman Island boundary mark. The mark you found with a PID on St. Thomas is one of many tidal bench marks established by the National Ocean Serivce's Center for Operational Oceanographic Proudcts and Services (CO-OPS) which is a sister office to NGS - they are responsible for the national network of long-term tide gauges that help define the national shore line and provide accurate determinations of tidal variations. NGS is working to integrate more of the CO-OPS marks into the National Spatial Reference System.

[mrh - terre haute]

DaveD

 

I'm glad to bring back the fond memories. We found NOS1639N completely by luck. We were leaving on a tour and walked right by it. We came back later in the day to set a gps waypoint and get a photo. As it turns out NOS1639M, which is very nearby, is in the NGS system as TV1548 but due to time constraints we did not get to search for it.

 

AB9262 was fun to find as a good bit of the end of the wooden dock is missing. I noticed on the datasheet that there is reference to VIDAL being a trinagulation station disk. The reason I mention that is that once I took a good look at the photo I noticed two other spots on the reef that look as though they could be concrete monuments for reference marks. Is that a possibility? If so I guess I'll just have to go back down there and check

 

Thanks again for steering me towards those marks.

 

mrh

Edited February 12, 2005 by mrh - terre haute